Ababeel SSM - Pakistan gains MIRV technology.

[krash]

Interesting a country which have the technology to launch multiple satellite to orbit don't have the MIRV is unbelievable. They might hiding their capability .

Have you ever known India or Indians to be tight lipped? I mean they start jumping to the stars way before they even put anything on paper. And then that show continues for decades until they buy, induct or scrap the project.

Let's not forget that these are the 'sir jee kal' people we are talking about.

 

[CriticalThought]

You keep assuming that while Pak is attacking, there aren't any counter attacks. Atleast we have our own AAD/PAD, soon S-400 and others. We also have Rafales, MKI and Jag with weapons like the GBU-105 SFW smart cluster munitions. Enter Pakistani airspace is watched for day and night. what makes you think S-400 will be deployed anywhere near the border, we can stay ten of miles of away and still have almost all of Pak under a no fly zone with the S-400.

India in phase 1 will have 5 full scale regiments of S-400 with another 7 to be build in India under MII later on. Each full scale regiment can deploy well over 300 missiles not even taking into account reloads. Each regiment will have many fire units and fire units can be as far 100 km away from the regimental command.

You really think in an all out conventional war, you can match the firepower India can unleash. Forget the years past, today's war reserves are plenty and war wastage reserves are at the highest levels. With 1000 Pinaka rockets manufactured annually, over 800+ ballistic missiles produced and deployed in the last 20 years.

Our strategy is simple. We are doomed and will make sure India is doomed as well. You are dealing with people who will have your blood at any and all costs to self.

Once we have that out of the way, let's look at some figures. The S-400 launches two missiles per target in order to ensure accuracy. So each regiment can only take out 150 targets. It is dealing with the following targets:

1. Nasr, IF it is close enough.
2. Drones.
3. Fighter jets.
4. Cruise missiles.
5. Ballistic missiles (Shaheen etc.).
6. And finally Ababeel with MIRV capability that can launch decoys.

Yes, Indian fighter jets will be out in full force. But the point is, your precious S-400 will still have to track the fighter jets, even if it doesn't target them. And the funny thing is, the more Indian fighter jets you fly, the more computation your Radar has to apply to make sure it doesn't target friendly aircraft by accident. You will be over-loading your own radars if you fly too many jets.

So, with the above list in mind, what do think? Can we saturate your radars or not?

 

[Immanuel]

Our strategy is simple. We are doomed and will make sure India is doomed as well. You are dealing with people who will have your blood at any and all costs to self.

Once we have that out of the way, let's look at some figures. The S-400 launches two missiles per target in order to ensure accuracy. So each regiment can only take out 150 targets. It is dealing with the following targets:

1. Nasr, IF it is close enough.
2. Drones.
3. Fighter jets.
4. Cruise missiles.
5. Ballistic missiles (Shaheen etc.).
6. And finally Ababeel with MIRV capability that can launch decoys.

Yes, Indian fighter jets will be out in full force. But the point is, your precious S-400 will still have to track the fighter jets, even if it doesn't target them. And the funny thing is, the more Indian fighter jets you fly, the more computation your Radar has to apply to make sure it doesn't target friendly aircraft by accident. You will be over-loading your own radars if you fly too many jets.

So, with the above list in mind, what do think? Can we saturate your radars or not?

Again why do you isolate the S-400 by itself, it is but a part of the layer of defence, your fighters, cruise missiles won't get past the hordes of Akash SAMs, Spyder SAM (of which we have already deployed hundreds of missiles) and upcoming Barak-8/MR-SAM. On top we also have the AAD and PAD. What makes you think we or any of our systems will be overloaded?. Matter of fact we train regularly with over 50-70 aircraft deployed in the air. Also with each S-400 fire unit having it's own radar element and everything being channeled in real time to the the various Integrated Air Command Centres, we have more than enough capability to sustain high intensity ops. The S-400 will have clear target list and it will focus it's efforts on those targets. S-400 will mostly focus it's efforts on long range AWACS, transports, tankers, bombers, long range cruise missiles when detected early on, ballistic missiles, tactical missiles.

Why will we fly too many jets? We will at best dedicate 2 or at worst 3 air commands worth of air assets towards a war with Pak.

 

[Sully3]

right now the pakistan has put the ball firmly in indian court.

stop with the fake chest thumping, fake surgical strikes and fake talk of Modis 56 inch chest. Indians keep talking but show nothing, if they want war pakistan has given a warning shot with Ababeel and trust me it has the top brass in India shaking at the thought of pakistan missile production.

modi put ur money where your mouth is and start this cold start doctrine you talk about so much.

 

[RealisticPAK]

Of course. Not so hard to find out mate
I just asked about it's warhead's features. Is it thermonuclear warhead?

No brother, Ababeel is kind of a vehicle, a nuclear/conventional device can be mounted on it's tip, fired and there you go to destroy a few cities. Thermonuclear is nuclear bomb, I think Pakistan does not have any thermonuclear weapons.

 

[CriticalThought]

Again why do you isolate the S-400 by itself, it is but a part of the layer of defence, your fighters, cruise missiles won't get past the hordes of Akash SAMs, Spyder SAM (of which we have already deployed hundreds of missiles) and upcoming Barak-8/MR-SAM. On top we also have the AAD and PAD. What makes you think we or any of our systems will be overloaded?. Matter of fact we train regularly with over 50-70 aircraft deployed in the air. Also with each S-400 fire unit having it's own radar element and everything being channeled in real time to the the various Integrated Air Command Centres, we have more than enough capability to sustain high intensity ops. The S-400 will have clear target list and it will focus it's efforts on those targets. S-400 will mostly focus it's efforts on long range AWACS, transports, tankers, bombers, long range cruise missiles when detected early on, ballistic missiles, tactical missiles.

Why will we fly too many jets? We will at best dedicate 2 or at worst 3 air commands worth of air assets towards a war with Pak.

Thank you for making PAF's job easier. But let's not side track the discussion. Those systems you have referred to, let's take a look at them:

Akash (missile)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akash_(missile)
Akash is a surface-to-air missile with an intercept range of 30 km.

SPYDER
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPYDER
As a short range air defence system, the SPYDER-SR has a short range of interception. The maximum altitude of interception is 9 km and the maximum range of interception is 15 km.[32] The SPYDER-MR has a greater operation range of 35 km and an altitude engagement of 16 km due to the missiles being equipped with boosters.

Barak 8
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barak_8
The missile has maximum speed of Mach 2 with a maximum operational range of 70 km,[5][14][15][16] which was later increased to 100 km.

You started your initial argument by saying your radars can impose a no-fly zone within Pakistan itself. When I showed you how we can overload your radar, you come back with a list of radars that are all short to medium range. None of these pose a serious threat to our missiles within Pakistan. The S-400 is your only bet if you want to supposedly destroy our missiles within the 'boost phase' as you have been claiming on the thread. And, I am copy pasting the list again, we can utilize all of the following within Pakistan to overload your system, plus your attack aircraft will be loading it as well. So you will be helping us in nullifying your advantage. Also remember that all of these are flying simultaneously, and they don't have to contain warheads or point to actual targets. They just need to fly.

1. Nasr, IF it is close enough.
2. Drones.
3. Fighter jets.
4. Cruise missiles, not pointed at any target to destroy, just flying from point A to point B.
5. Ballistic missiles (Shaheen etc.).
6. And finally Ababeel with MIRV capability that can launch decoys.

The S-400 is your ONLY defense that can take out the missiles in the initial phase, and we have just overloaded it. This allows many of our Shaheens and Ababeels to enter low orbit and then begin the re-entry at speeds of Mach 15+ at which point none of your systems can deal with it.

Your answer?

 

[JOEY TRIBIANI]

After getting tracked it can be intercepted during boost phase before separation of warheads..

What if we fire it from far west of Baluchistan ?

 

[MilSpec]

& this is the most dangerous thing ..... as mush the difference in conventional capabilities b/w India & Pakistan will increase the dependency of Pakistan on non-conventional means & False Sense of security in India will also increase

Further the increase gap in conventional capabilities with false sense of security in India will present a situation which may induce the Indian political class for misadventure just for the INTERNAL POLITICAL GAINS, so South Asia is trapped in a viscous circle .....

Welcome to Hell you all ....

the difference I might point point out is India has never been a state hopping between psuedo-democracy and grandiose theocracy to embark on misadventures when it feels secure. When there is a false sense of security it is usually Pakistan that sets its course on misadventures, not India. After going Nuclear It was Pakistan that set upon the Kargil Misadventures, India did no such act either after 74 or 98. As far as internal political gains are concerned , one of the biggest political players actually in the region is the Pakistani Military which would seek to get in a conflict mode to consolidate it's power in the state just as it did post Kargil.

 

[MilSpec]

1. Negative. Contrary to the popular belief, MIRV deployment begins during ascent after termination of boost phase.
2. True that the difference Ababeel brings to the table is only 3 times more RVs, however S-400's terminal exo/endo-atmospheric interception envelope can not intercept ballistic targets with speeds over 4800m/s (~Mach 15).

Was the RV tested and all three warheads tracked?

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

How many MIRV was conducted with this test..

I m not confirmed but may be 3...

Just notice differences between Liquid and Solid Propellants. You will get the answer.

=> RS-28 Sarmat "Satan 2" or "Satan 1" is a Russian liquid-fueled Ballistic missile.

=> LGM-30 Minuteman III is American Solid-Propellant Ballistic missile with "3 warheads"

=> Now Pakistan's Ghauri family of ballistic missiles, Liquid-fueled.

=> Pakistan's Shaheen Family, Solid-propellant.

=> Finally Ababeel Family, first 2 stages Solid-propellant. (multiple warheads)

So it means liquid fuel missiles are more hard to detect/track compared to solid fuel...???

 

[Fenrir]

So it means liquid fuel missiles are more hard to detect/track compared to solid fuel...???

Easier actually. Liquid fueled missiles can't be transported in a ready-to-fire configuration like a Topol could:

Liquid fueled missiles require time to be fueled, time where they are immobile surrounded by vulnerable, flammable trucks, tankers and plumping:

They haven't really changed since the V-2. Still requiring a gantry or scaffold, fueling trucks... it takes a lot of time and the missile doesn't move while being fueled. Liquid fueled missiles are considered more vulnerable to attack and give a defender more time to react. Notice the amount of "stuff" this Chinese DF-5 requires for launch?

One of the limitations of the missile is that it takes between 30 and 60 minutes to fuel.

30 to 60 minutes is more then enough time for a defender to locate the missile and take preventative actions including electronic warfare to disrupt targeting and command and control nodes or jam the missile's control and guidance systems, kinetic support or positioning ABM assets to mitigate the risk posed by the missile. That's a limitation all liquid fueled missiles share. They take too long to ready.

By comparison, solid fueled missiles fire like this:

Taking almost no time to setup and because they are stored ready-to-launch, take almost no time to be fired either. Once launched the truck doesn't need to be dismantled like a liquid fueled missiles launch pad, it scoots away to rearm.

Sure they make a lot of smoke which makes them noticeable, but they're far more survivable then a lumbering liquid fueled missile that must sit on its launched pad waiting to be fueled for up to an hour and they afford a defender less time to react.

Solid fuels are also safer to store and transport, where liquid fuels have had a tendency to explode If handled improperly.

 

[Dazzler]

 

[HRK]

In the next fifteen years Pakistan will continue to meet all challenges in the defence of the motherland. One may see great progress in the manufacture of most sophisticated submarines capable of ensuring Pakistan’s second strike capability. In addition to these achievements big strides are expected in the conquest of space. The design technology of satellites for different applications has already been achieved and demonstrated. More satellites are expected to be launched in the coming years. With the acquisition of capability of our own satellite launch systems, our country would become a full-fledged power in space technology.

http://hilal.gov.pk/index.php/layouts/item/2496-pakistan-by-2030?tmpl=component&print=1


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the difference I might point point out is India has never been a state hopping between psuedo-democracy and grandiose theocracy to embark on misadventures when it feels secure.

Sir plz never speak big words .... Your country is passing form the the very same phase .... RELIGIOUSLY MOTIVATED NEO NATIONALISM .... you people will witness its full effect after some time but will realize its immediate effect 'soon'

When there is a false sense of security it is usually Pakistan that sets its course on misadventures, not India. After going Nuclear It was Pakistan that set upon the Kargil Misadventures, India did no such act either after 74 or 98.

& India adventure in 1971 just after the Indo-Russian agreement .... what was that ... History of your country have no such events ...??

just to remind you Kargil was with us till 1971 which India capture it in that year, secondly Kargil was planed as a local level operation not as a full-fledged war ....

Thirdly most important lesson of the Kargil episode is that you can not judge the reaction of your opponent before time a miscalculation at the time planing of Kargil operation about the reaction of India bring both state at the verge of war this also indicate the BIGGEST mutual weakness of India & Pakistan as NUCLEAR STATE that both countries don't haven any agreed ESCALATION LADDER so there is no guarantee that which country will take what measure at the time of crises.

& Lastly do you think Kargil was a right incident (crossing the frontiers) at right time (after the nuclearization of South Asia) if not then it there any mechanism or guarantee that no such event form both side will occur again ....???

If India can move its Navy in response to a local level operation of Kargil, then why the Indians think Pakistan will not respond with ALL THE RESOURCES AT ITS DISPOSAL ....

As far as internal political gains are concerned , one of the biggest political players actually in the region is the Pakistani Military which would seek to get in a conflict mode to consolidate it's power in the state just as it did post Kargil.

Usual Indian rhetoric .... ?? have you put some thought to it .... ???

Pakistan Military even at time when it rule Pakistan always engage India with Dialogues, secondly its does not require India as enemy for its existence particularly after 1979 it have many option.... think yourself

BTW should quote anti Pakistan speeches of Indian politicians at the time of elections ....??
Who is required to go to General public after every 5 years ... politicians or some institution ...???
Who need JOB SECURITY ... politicians or some institution ...???
Who is required to prove themselves PATRIOT in front of general public ... politicians or some institution ...??

Biggest of all

POLITICIANS OF WHICH COUNTRY ARE SELLING THE DREAMS OF WORLD POWER .... WITH HALF POPULATION IN POVERTY .... INDIA OR PAKISTAN ... ??

So who has more chances of failure INDIAN POLITICIAN or PAKISTANI MILITARY ....???

 

[newb3e]

The missile will be test fired from Pakistani territory which is roughly 200 KM from Indian border. Indian radars can pick up the missile during launch phase and hit the missile during its course.

The Green pine radars can pick up even small objects like foot ball that fly 100's of km away.

This missile cannot be a shield to implement the left over agenda after partition for pakistan.

Wow i am really scared now!

 

[The Deterrent]

There are rumour flyings Pakistan going to test 4000 KM Missile.

@Ghareeb_Da_Baal said news coming in media, next month new version of Shaheen- X would be tested.

@The Deterrent @HRK

BS. Similar rumors are heard every time.