A Wave of Afghan Surrenders to the Taliban Picks Up Speed

[jamal18]

To the Pakistanis cheering this, the taliban can and will turn their guns against Pakistan, once this is all over. Why do you think the afghan-taliban continue to support the ttp?

No

 

[terry5]

How is the Taliban any different from Al CIA-da ? The first one is just the younger brother.

https://cic.es.its.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/gregg_sep_tal_alqaeda.pdf

 

[Kingslayerr]

Neither me nor you are the one to declare any organization as terrorist or not. AT is a terrorist organization by all means. What TTP did to Pakistan same is being done by AT in Afghanistan.

No Afghan talibans donot go into mosques, schools, public places etc to targate purely civilians. This is something AlQaeda, ISIS and TTP does. While Afghan taliban are no better but atleast dont deliberately kill civilians. Last year a maternity hospital was targated in kabul wherr women giving birth were killed, infants died, these are the kind of attacks ISIS, AQ and TTP do. And when TTP would be finished with pakistan. It'll start attacking other countries Eg: 9/11. While on the other hand Afghan talibans have pledged that their country will not be used against others. This is the difference between an insurgent group and hard core terrorists.

No

Yes thay will, not in this brutal way at first, but yes they will go against us. Also care to explain why NO?

 

[Meengla]

It's time for the Indians to watch the watch.

What a treacherous lot these Afghans are, they have no loyalty to any side and jump from one side to another. No wonder the US got fed up and left them to implode into another round of civil war.

Yes.
Honestly, however much someone might hate Pakistan for the Pakistani role in Afghanistan, you've just got to acknowledge that the problem basically lies in Afghanistan and with Afghans themselves! They have been slaughtering each other since the fall of their King in 1970s. Idiots tried to impose a very strict form of communism in an agrarian, deeply Islamic society too quickly, while one President after another was trying to kill each other or asking for either the American or the Soviet help just to stay in power. The only credible Afghan govt without full foreign backing would be the Taliban one between 1996-2001, however much you hate their social policies.

And now the latest... the mightiest military force in human history, after spending so much, killing so many has resulted in this??

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

This time around they don't have the likes of Ahmad Shah Masood either. All that is left are the nasty dostum type warlords.

Ahmed Shah masood is given too much credit. Considering he was also a turn coat and made several agreements with the Soviets.
Also the terrain of panjsher also restricted heavy military deployment. P.S ISI also supported him.

Arabs were trained by Pakistani military and even commanded by a Pakistani general and we saw how they were slaughtered by the houthis.


True. Talibs are just mercenaries fighting to grab power in Afghanistan just like Northern alliance. And RAW can get them to work for them by offering more than what Pakistan does. So there is no need for Pakistani members to be so elated.

Saudis are also trained and equipped by USA.
And like others they weren't trained to fight COIN ops in the mountains. We see how a few kashmiris and naxals have been pounding indian militarys hiney.
Now multiply it by 100, add in Iranian support and public support.

As for taliban yeah you can and would, if you fuckin could. Hinduyaan aren't really at the top of the food chain among the taliban though.

 

[That Guy]

We are not appeasing them if not allies than perhaps lesser of the two evils. Border is pretty much fenced, Taliban will share political space renouncing violence's and not letting their territory to be used against other countries. These are the basics of the DOHA accord. The least India will not have a free space to run its campaign against Pakistan as was the case with Ashraf Ghani and Karzai before him.

If the taliban renounce violence, then I'll publically apologize to this forum for me being wrong. However, the taliban are not gonna renounce violence, because violence has worked for them, why would they stop?

With Ghani, Pakistan dropped the ball, as he came into power with a very pro-Pakistan message. Pakistan had a chance to push India out completely, but like with most things, Pakistani government incompetence ruined the chance.

Final the accords are honestly meaningless. They were signed as a way to give the US an excuse to leave Afghanistan, I doubt the taliban will stick to the accords.

No

No what?

 

[Kingslayerr]

Soon even ghani and saleh will be surrendering to the taliban as well.

Nah i doubt it. Last time when muhajiden or talibans took kabul they were heavily supported by the pakistanis, even then there many times defeated. They were annihilated in battle of jalalabad. That was the most dumb operation. This is what happens when one person takes decisions and doesn't let all the stakeholders to get involve i.e civilian govt didn't knew about jalalabad opreation. The main point is that tobay talibans donot have the rockets to fire at kabul. They dont even have stingers. While the kabul regime has bombers etc. Taliban might take some lightly guarderd provinces but kabul, no not a chance. Remember when taliban can fight for 20 yeras, others can also. Better to just form a govt.

 

[TNT]

Nah i doubt it. Last time when muhajiden or talibans took kabul they were heavily supported by the pakistanis, even then there many times defeated. They were annihilated in battle of jalalabad. That was the most dumb operation. This is what happens when one person takes decisions and doesn't let all the stakeholders to get involve i.e civilian govt didn't knew about jalalabad opreation. The main point is that tobay talibans donot have the rockets to fire at kabul. They dont even have stingers. While the kabul regime has bombers etc. Taliban might take some lightly guarderd provinces but kabul, no not a chance. Remember when taliban can fight for 20 yeras, others can also. Better to just form a govt.

Then why arent they fighting for another 20 years? Instead they r running away. You talking about weapons, lolz what weapons the US did not have and yet they r running away. The taliban didn't have rockets and stingers against americans either.
One person takes decision? What r u talking about? Do u have any proof of what ur saying or just ur imagination? Northern alliance was heavily supported by USSR/ russia, they were supported by Tajikistan as well and had more sophisticated weapons and yet taliban took kabul. Taliban had Pakistan support but that support was not overwhelming and was very limited and covert.
This time, the taliban may not take over kabul like last time but they surely are taking over other areas, the more areas they take, the more stronger their position and share in future govt gets. Someone involved told me that the negotiations are on the track of giving some share to the northern alliance in a future "islamic emirate of Afghanistan" govt and not the other way round. Just wait and watch.

 

[GumNaam]

Two decades of nation-building .... one side had the watches, the other time and in the end, time wins.

nation building my foot. they spent billions that were siffuned off by corrupt afghan warlords and even corrupt american generals and used for creating terrorism in Pakistan, China & Russia. I say good riddance.

 

[Kingslayerr]

Then why arent they fighting for another 20 years? Instead they r running away. You talking about weapons, lolz what weapons the US did not have and yet they r running away. The taliban didn't have rockets and stingers against americans either.
One person takes decision? What r u talking about? Do u have any proof of what ur saying or just ur imagination? Northern alliance was heavily supported by USSR/ russia, they were supported by Tajikistan as well and had more sophisticated weapons and yet taliban took kabul. Taliban had Pakistan support but that support was not overwhelming and was very limited and covert.
This time, the taliban may not take over kabul like last time but they surely are taking over other areas, the more areas they take, the more stronger their position and share in future govt gets. Someone involved told me that the negotiations are on the track of giving some share to the northern alliance in a future "islamic emirate of Afghanistan" govt and not the other way round. Just wait and watch.

Where did i say k talians wont take other areas? Bhai meray yes ANA is losing positions and also abandoning them, talibans also does the same when reinforcements come, Airstrikes happen, but we here less about it because talibans do not hold positions cause they cant otherwise air strikes will toast them. Talibs are powerful but to take kabul, jalalabad they need immense power. Before Talibans, hykmatyar was supported by Pakistan he had rockets made by china delivered by pak, according to the mujahedeens they were the best equipment they got in the war, better then stingers. Can fire from 20kms away and still Ahmed shah masood was able to hold off kabul. The main point remains the same no one wants another kabul seige, atleast Pakistan doesn't want and if talibans can fight so then the other groups including kabul govt which has support from outside.

 

[TNT]

Where did i say k talians wont take other areas? Bhai meray yes ANA is losing positions and also abandoning them, talibans also does the same when reinforcements come, Airstrikes happen, but we here less about it because talibans do not hold positions cause they cant otherwise air strikes will toast them. Talibs are powerful but to take kabul, jalalabad they need immense power. Before Talibans, hykmatyar was supported by Pakistan he had rockets made by china delivered by pak, according to the mujahedeens they were the best equipment they got in the war, better then stingers. Can fire from 20kms away and still Ahmed shah masood was able to hold off kabul. The main point remains the same no one wants another kabul seige, atleast Pakistan doesn't want and if talibans can fight so then the other groups including kabul govt which has support from outside.

Theydont need to take kabul if they control everything outside kabul. It will depend on situation but if it comes to it and is necessary then taking kabul wont be as hard as it was in past. Taliban are much more motivated now, supported by Pakistan, russia, china and even iran to some extent.

 

[Kingslayerr]

Theydont need to take kabul if they control everything outside kabul. It will depend on situation but if it comes to it and is necessary then taking kabul wont be as hard as it was in past. Taliban are much more motivated now, supported by Pakistan, russia, china and even iran to some extent.

When they will take every other provinces then what makes you think they wont go to take kabul? Also nobody's supporting them, i doubt even pakistan support towards them now. Those days are gone when Pakistan though afghan talibans should be the sole ruler. Pakistan today wants a collation govt in Afganistan. Nobodys is supporting them, everyone is supporting peace.

 

[SecularNationalist]

It brings music to the Ears, specially after some group anti-Pakistan Afghans in London UK attacked Pakistan embassy yesterday.

They are clearly desperate.
Still can't accept Pakistan is their forever master and daddy.

Theydont need to take kabul if they control everything outside kabul. It will depend on situation but if it comes to it and is necessary then taking kabul wont be as hard as it was in past. Taliban are much more motivated now, supported by Pakistan, russia, china and even iran to some extent.

Lol can't get your reasoning. They want to liberate afghanistan from all kinds of foreign occupation. Last time I checked kabul is in afghanistan and it's the most important city of Afghanistan.

 

[jamahir]

https://cic.es.its.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/gregg_sep_tal_alqaeda.pdf

The document is from 2011 and the New York University seems to be in a hurry to paint the Taliban as good guys, which they would as directed by the American government.

From the document :

Afghans have not been involved in international terrorism, nor have the Afghan Taliban adopted the internationalist jihadi rhetoric of affiliates of al-Qaeda.

That is incorrect. The document is from 2011 and even if it was from now, 10 years later, it wouldn't have mentioned that the US Air Force was airlifting Talibanis from Afghanistan to the battlefields of Syria after 2011 to join the ranks of the various international criminal groups that form the "Syrian rebels".

Next :

The five years that followed saw the Taliban struggle to conquer central and northern Afghanistan and consolidate their hold over the country and its diverse population while imposing highly conservative social policies.

"Conservative" is an understatement. The author didn't of course use the word "Regressive". I quote from my thread from some months ago :

KABUL: The last thing 33-year-old Khatera saw were the three men on a motorcycle who attacked her just after she left her job at a police station in Afghanistan's central Ghazni province, shooting at her and stabbing her with a knife in the eyes.

Waking up in hospital, everything was dark.

"I asked the doctors, why I can't see anything? They told me that my eyes are still bandaged because of the wounds. But at that moment, I knew my eyes had been taken from me," she said.

She and local authorities blame the attack on Taliban militants - who deny involvement – and say the assailants acted on a tip-off from her father who vehemently opposed her working outside the home.

For Khatera, the attack caused not just the loss of her sight but the loss of a dream she had battled to achieve - to have an independent career. She joined the Ghazni police as an officer in its crime branch a few months ago.

"I wish I had served in police at least a year. If this had happened to me after that, it would have been less painful. It happened too soon ... I only got to work and live my dream for three months," she told Reuters.

The attack on Khatera, who only uses one name, is indicative of a growing trend, human rights activists say, of an intense and often violent backlash against women taking jobs, especially in public roles.

It's not like the Taliban, when they will soon form association with the current government, will create a scientific, harmonious, welfare society in Afghanistan with free basic amenities like food, education, electricity etc which will also include the women being prominent in the system including in employment. The DRA ( Democratic Republic of Afghanistan ) as the country was known in the 1980s sent a cosmonaut to a USSR space station. The Taliban when they formed "Islamic" Emirate of Afghanistan in the 1990s shut down music shops, barber shops and didn't make any step towards establishing a progressive, welfare society.

Why aren't the Western militaries leaving Afghanistan by putting in charge progressive movements like the Solidarity Party of Afghanistan ? It is because these groups are naturally leftist, the same reason why the Western governments created Al Qaeda ( so-called Mujahideen ) in the first place to subvert the generally progressive system when the country was called Democratic Republic of Afghanistan.

If the Westerners so much like the Taliban they can bring the lot of them into their own countries and put them in charge of governance.

I repeat, the Taliban is the same as Al Qaeda, just that the Taliban as a movement at present wants to rule only Afghanistan but will send fighters to where ever the Western governments want.

 

[araz]

To the Pakistanis cheering this, the taliban can and will turn their guns against Pakistan, once this is all over. Why do you think the afghan-taliban continue to support the ttp?

They will not. I think the ground reality is they are very good at fighting war in their own environment but not once they are out of it. Fighting with Pakistan inside Pakistan is asking for trouble and they will not do so. Afghanistan is land locked and unless they have zupport from Pakistan they do not grow enojgh to be able to feed their own. They will reconcile their differences with Pakistan and concentrate on consolidating their position in and out of Afghanistan. To be fair Pakistan did leave them in a lurch and will have to accept it was wrong to do so.
A