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A Wave of Afghan Surrenders to the Taliban Picks Up Speed

If that were the case why was our borders so peaceful prior 9/11? Terrorism spiked in Pakistan only after 9/11 once Taliban were defeated and ANA scums were brought in along with their handlers giving India a free rein.
Afghan taliban never supported TTP because unlike Afghan Taliban who were fighting against foreign occupational forces, TTP wasn't and it was created to fight against Pakistan at the behest of India. Completely different agenda. While Pakistan was always accused to support the Haqqanis, TTP was created to punish Pakistan and keep PA occupied on that front.
Pakistan's borders weren't actually all that peaceful before 9/11, the difference was just that no one paid much attention to it, while militants and people crossed between the two countries unhindered.

Never forget, the Afghan taliban literally threatened to attack Pakistan if Pakistan ever tried to enforce the border between the two countries.

The Afghan taliban have always supported the ttp, mostly with the help of al qaeda who linked the two groups together. The fact that the Afghan taliban do not take action against the ttp is evidence that they continue to keep relations with the ttp.

The worst part of all this is, the Afghan taliban are Afghan nationalists first, and they think of Pakistanis as less than humans. Pakistanis are naive to believe that these Afghan groups have any sort of love for Pakistan, they do not. It has always been the Afghans that have consistently threatened to destroy Pakistan, trying multiple times to do so, yet Pakistanis seem to fall and trip over their own feet trying to appease them.
 
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They can only operate because we have provided them clandestine support. If they turn on us we can destroy them. Lets see how well they operate without anywhere to hide, any way to smuggle weapons, medication, places for shelter.
You underestimate them, and are making the exact same mistaken assumptions that the US made that lost the US this war in the first place.

The taliban make $500 million annually through their smuggling and business operations in Afghanistan, and have devastated Pakistan with their drug smuggling, which has destroyed thousands of Pakistani lives due to drug addiction. Tell me, in what sane world would a government allow a militant group to poison its own citizens? If what you say is true, then Pakistan's own protectors allowed Pakistanis to be poisoned, that is the implication of your words.

They've also never needed so called Pakistani safe havens, which have always been a myth. Former General Patreus investigated every claim made against Pakistan and not only found no evidence, but was convinced that these links were nothing more than exaggerations. The fact of the matter is, the taliban have almost always controlled some parts of Afgjanistan, where the government has never had any reach, even with US help. Mullah Omar literally lived and died within walking distance of one of the biggest US military bases in Afghanistan.

Pakistan may have communication with the Afghan taliban, and even some influence, but it is highly exaggerated in the public eye.

Absolutely nothing I'm saying is controversial, and can be verified by simple Google searches.

Once again, the Afghan taliban are not Pakistan's friends, and they never have been.
 
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Pakistanis seem to fall and trip over their own feet trying to appease them.
We are not appeasing them if not allies than perhaps lesser of the two evils. Border is pretty much fenced, Taliban will share political space renouncing violence's and not letting their territory to be used against other countries. These are the basics of the DOHA accord. The least India will not have a free space to run its campaign against Pakistan as was the case with Ashraf Ghani and Karzai before him.
 
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By David Zucchino and Najim Rahim

May 27, 2021Updated 1:33 p.m. ET

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/27/world/asia/afghan-surrender-taliban.html

MEHTARLAM, Afghanistan — Ammunition was depleted inside the bedraggled outposts in Laghman Province. Food was scarce. Some police officers hadn’t been paid in five months.
Then, just as American troops began leaving the country in early May, Taliban fighters besieged seven rural Afghan military outposts across the wheat fields and onion patches of the province, in eastern Afghanistan.
The insurgents enlisted village elders to visit the outposts bearing a message: Surrender or die.
By mid-month, security forces had surrendered all seven outposts after extended negotiations, according to village elders. At least 120 soldiers and police were given safe passage to the government-held provincial center in return for handing over weapons and equipment.
“We told them, ‘Look, your situation is bad — reinforcements aren’t coming,’” said Nabi Sarwar Khadim, 53, one of several elders who negotiated the surrenders.



Since May 1, at least 26 outposts and bases in just four provinces — Laghman, Baghlan, Wardak and Ghazni — have surrendered after such negotiations, according to village elders and government officials. With morale diving as American troops leave, and the Taliban seizing on each surrender as a propaganda victory, each collapse feeds the next in the Afghan countryside.
U.S. Speeds Withdrawal
All troops are now expected to be out of Afghanistan in July.
Among the negotiated surrenders were four district centers, which house local governors, police and intelligence chiefs — effectively handing the government facilities to Taliban control and scattering the officials there, at least temporarily.


A handwritten note, signed by Taliban and Afghan government officials, outlining a cease-fire in Mehtarlam.

A handwritten note, signed by Taliban and Afghan government officials, outlining a cease-fire in Mehtarlam.Credit...Jim Huylebroek for The New York Times
The Taliban have negotiated Afghan troop surrenders in the past, but never at the scale and pace of the base collapses this month in the four provinces extending east, north and west of Kabul. The tactic has removed hundreds of government forces from the battlefield, secured strategic territory and reaped weapons, ammunition and vehicles for the Taliban — often without firing a shot.
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The base collapses are one measure of the rapidly deteriorating government war effort as one outpost after another falls, sometimes after battles, but often after wholesale surrenders.
The surrenders are part of a broader Taliban playbook of seizing and holding territory as security force morale plummets with the exit of international troops. Buyoffs of local police and militia. Local cease-fires that allow the Taliban to consolidate gains. A sustained military offensive despite pleas for peace talks and a nationwide cease-fire.
“The government is not able to save the security forces,” said Mohammed Jalal, a village elder in Baghlan Province. “If they fight, they will be killed, so they have to surrender.”
The surrenders are the work of Taliban Invitation and Guidance Committees, which intervene after insurgents cut off roads and supplies to surrounded outposts. Committee leaders or Taliban military leaders phone base commanders — and sometimes their families — and offer to spare troops’ lives if they surrender their outposts, weapons and ammunition.



Nabi Sarwar Khadim, one of the elders who negotiated the surrenders in Mehtarlam.

Nabi Sarwar Khadim, one of the elders who negotiated the surrenders in Mehtarlam.Credit...Jim Huylebroek for The New York Times
In several cases, the committees have given surrendering troops money — typically around $130 — and civilian clothes and sent them home unharmed. But first they videotape the men as they promise not to rejoin the security forces. They log their phone numbers and the names of family members — and vow to kill the men if they rejoin the military.
“The Taliban commander and the Invitation and Guidance Committee called me more than 10 times and asked me to surrender,” said Maj. Imam Shah Zafari, 34, a district police chief in Wardak Province who surrendered his command center and weapons on May 11 after negotiations mediated by local elders.
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After the Taliban provided a car ride home to Kabul, he said, a committee member phoned to assure him that the government would not imprison him for surrendering. “He said, ‘We have so much power in the government and we can release you,’” Major Zafari said.
The Taliban committees take advantage of a defining characteristic of Afghan wars: Fighters and commanders regularly switch sides, cut deals, negotiate surrenders and cultivate village elders for influence with local residents.
The current conflict is really dozens of local wars. These are intimate struggles, where brothers and cousins battle one another and commanders on each side cajole, threaten and negotiate by cellphone.
“A Taliban commander calls me all the time, trying to destroy my morale, so that I’ll surrender,” said Wahidullah Zindani, 36, a bearded, sunburned police commander who has rejected Taliban demands to surrender his nine-man, bullet-pocked outpost in Laghman Province.


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Commander Wahidullah Zindani, center, and Muhammad Agha Bambard, right, at their outpost.Credit...Jim Huylebroek for The New York Times
The negotiated surrenders are part of a broader offensive in which the Taliban have surrounded at least five provincial capitals this spring, according to a Pentagon inspector general report released May 18. The offensive has intensified since the American withdrawal began May 1. The Taliban have used their control of several major highways to cut off bases and garrisons, leaving them vulnerable.
The surrenders have a profound psychological effect.
“They call and say the Taliban are powerful enough to defeat the U.S. and they can easily take Laghman Province, so you should remember this before we kill you,” Rahmatullah Yarmal, Laghman’s 29-year-old governor, said of the Taliban committees during an interview inside his barricaded compound in Mehtarlam, the provincial capital.

It’s an effective propaganda tactic, the governor conceded — so effective that some outpost commanders now refuse to speak to elders or Taliban negotiators. He said many elders were not neutral peacemakers, but handpicked Taliban supporters.
Mr. Yarmal said 60 police officers who surrendered and took refuge in his government center are now primed to fight to retake the seven lost outposts. “I think we’ll have them back in a month,” he said.


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Rahmatullah Yarmal, governor of Laghman Province, looking at the destroyed armored Land Cruiser that he was riding in when he was attacked by a suicide car bomber last October.Credit...Jim Huylebroek for The New York Times
But just hours after the governor spoke on May 19, a nearby district center, Dawlat Shah, surrendered without any resistance after negotiations. By the next morning, five more outposts had surrendered the same way in the district of Alishing, also in Laghman, district officials said.
Those Taliban victories were facilitated, in part, by a 30-day cease-fire negotiated by elders on May 17 in the heavily contested district of Alingar, allowing the Taliban to shift resources to Alishing, where they forced the negotiated surrender of the five outposts just two days later. (On May 21, the Taliban violated the cease-fire with renewed attacks in Alingar, Mr. Khadim said.)
The series of base collapses represented the second wholesale surrender in a Laghman district in two weeks. On May 7, three outposts and a military base collapsed the same way without a fight, said Nasir Ahmad Himat, the Alingar district governor.
“The soldiers simply dropped their weapons, got in their vehicles and went to the district center or provincial capital,” said Faqirullah, a village elder who goes by one name.

As Taliban fighters advanced on the provincial capital Sunday, Governor Yarmal announced that 110 security force members who had surrendered, and several commanders who were supposed to supervise them, had been detained for negligence.
Also Sunday, the Afghan military announced that troop reinforcements and the military chief of staff had rushed to Laghman to try to repel the Taliban assault.
In Ghazni Province, Hasan Reza Yousofi, a provincial councilman, said he begged officials to send reinforcements to an outpost and a military base that ultimately fell to the Taliban this month. He played a recorded phone call from a police officer, Abdul Ahmad, who said his ammunition was gone and his men were drinking rainwater because the base water tower had been destroyed by a rocket.


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“The Taliban come here at night and shoot at us,” said Najibullah, a policeman at the outpost in Mehtarlam. “I can’t shoot back. My rifle magazine only has a few bullets. I brought a slingshot and a rock just in case. One of my friends got hit when a mortar landed where we sleep. His blood is still on the wall.” Credit...Jim Huylebroek for The New York Times
“We have been sold out — we make calls for reinforcements, but officials don’t help,” the recorded voice said. “The Taliban sent us tribal elders who said, ‘Surrender, you are sold out, no one will help you.’”
Mr. Yousofi said he did not know whether Mr. Ahmad survived after his outpost fell.
Negotiations have proven remarkably fruitful for the Taliban in Baghlan Province, where at least 100 soldiers surrendered, and in Wardak Province, where about 130 security force members surrendered following negotiations, officials said.
In Laghman Province, negotiations leading to the surrender of the seven outposts stretched over 10 days. Mr. Khadim, the village elder, said different elders negotiated with commanders of each outpost.

“We guaranteed they would not be killed,” he said. “There was nothing written, just our word.”
A few miles away, Commander Zindani refused to surrender his forlorn outpost near the front line. He said officers who had negotiated surrenders at three nearby outposts had betrayed their country.
One of his men, Muhammad Agha Bambard, said he would fight to avenge the deaths of two brothers he said were killed by the Taliban. He would never surrender, he said.
Commander Zindani’s nine men were down to a machine gun, a rocket-propelled grenade launcher and one AK-47 rifle each inside a ramshackle outpost with bloodstained walls. But he said he intended to fight on — as he told the Taliban commander who regularly phoned to demand his surrender.
“I told him, ‘I’m a soldier of my country,’” the commander said. “I am not here to surrender.”
Four days later, on Sunday, the outpost was overrun during a firefight with the Taliban, a member of the provincial council said. One police officer was shot dead and Commander Zindani and his outgunned men were taken prisoner.
A few hours later, the Taliban released a video showing Mr. Bambard being questioned by a Taliban commander as he lay on a mattress, his face and neck bandaged. In a mocking tone, the commander asked why Mr. Bambard had posted on his Facebook page that he would not let the enemy capture his outpost while he was alive.
The wounded officer responded, “This is Afghanistan.”
And I am thinking now that we supported USA. Why we did that, when Talibs are regaining power and we are again alone. From next time, if some power comes and asks for attack on Afghanistan, we should simply deny.
 
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And I am thinking now that we supported USA. Why we did that, when Talibs are regaining power and we are again alone. From next time, if some power comes and asks for attack on Afghanistan, we should simply deny.


We are not alone, dont worry. Pakistan has strategic depth in Afghanistan.
 
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India needs to fill the void

I agree it should. And counter the Taliban by strengthening progressive Afghan groups such as the SPA ( Solidarity Party of Afghanistan ). What's the purpose of India having such a large military if it will not contribute positively to the neighborhood and elsewhere ? The contribution should include educational and medical collaboration like India does in UNO peacekeeping missions. This help to Afghanistan will also have a progressive feedback in India.

God bless the mujahideen

Seriously ? Will you also call the CIA / MI6 birthed Al Qaeda in 80s Afghanistan as "Mujahideen" ?
 
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Arabs were trained by Pakistani military and even commanded by a Pakistani general and we saw how they were slaughtered by the houthis.


True. Talibs are just mercenaries fighting to grab power in Afghanistan just like Northern alliance. And RAW can get them to work for them by offering more than what Pakistan does. So there is no need for Pakistani members to be so elated.

Nope Pajeet your dead wrong don’t speak of things you know nothing of and have no knowledge of either. GCC and Co. were trained by western nations after there independence and Arab Air Forces like Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Egypt were trained by Indians during the early days as we (Pakistan) were still developing these institutions to what they are today, but still kicked your air forces *** while developing.

As for Houthis Pakistan has no role what so ever in that conflict and has stayed away from it due to the Sunni/Shia internal issues in Pakistan from developing, why you think they were pissed of at us. They will the latest Western equipment performed just like Indian after Balakot with the latest Israeli and Russian equipment.

As for Raheel Sharief, whatever the Arabs were planning to do by creating that force is dead in its tracks.

So nice try trying to deflect from Indian failure. Now don’t get so worked up and breath deep unless you want to play hide and seek with an oxygen cylinder.
 
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US is leaving without any peace which will ensure the violence continue, afgjans fghts themselves, Pakistan gets beat up in the process and this part of the world remains unstable. Perfect from CIAs point of view. Better for Pakistan to devise a plan on what to do when attack will begin on kabul and other major cities. We shouldn't take any more refugees and what to do about the haqqanis. If they want to live on this side of the border so better to announce support for Pakistan. This game of getting help from pakistan and at the same time supporting TTP is not gonna work out.
 
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Haven't you like many others, confused TTP and afghan Taliban?

Afghan taliban has cordial relations with Pakistan, TTP is aligned with ISIS in Afghanistan and under patronage of NDS and RAW. World of difference!

Afghan Taliban won't allow sanctuaries for TTP or ISIS or BLA or BRA. This is obviously in Pakistan's interest.

Exactly my point. I appalled to see Pakistanis supporting Taliban in whatever form they come. If you are so desperate to see AT ruling Afghanistan which has blood of hundred of thousand of innocent victims in their hand then why should not you have TTP ruling over you by the same measure ? Hypocrisy eh ?


Was not it the same when FC personals were abducted or SSG commandos got butchered by TTP ? May their soul rest in peace.
 
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We don't have alternatives.. The afghan govt is corrupt, and is conducting a proxy war inside Pakistan via PTM, BLA, BRA and TTP.

Their expats are brainwashed with hatred against Pakistan due to be hateful narrative by the former northern alliance group that is essentially in power.

Despite multiple friendly overtures, the afghan govt is spewing more and more venom day by day against Pakistan. Even begging the Americans to bomb Pakistan at every opportunity they get.

Therefore, Afghan govt or more accurately, the northern alliance puppet govt must be relieved of duties. Proxy terror sanctuaries dismantled against Pakistan inside Afghanistan and Indian influence reduced to zero.

What more concerning is that you are deliberately excluding the threats from the afghan puppet govt and the various proxies against Pakistan. Why?

Do you honestly think that 20 plus years of hatred fermented by afghan government is going to change if we stop having relations with the Taliban?

Have we seen any reduction in cross-border terrorism? Do we see the BLA camps shut down? Do we see Indian consulate reduced in number?
 
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Exactly my point. I appalled to see Pakistanis supporting Taliban in whatever form they come. If you are so desperate to see AT ruling Afghanistan which has blood of hundred of thousand of innocent victims in their hand then why should not you have TTP ruling over you by the same measure ? Hypocrisy eh ?
I understand what you're trying to say but TTP and afghan talibans are really different. Afghan taliban is an insurgency, TTP is a terrorist organization created by AlQaeda so naturally it has the ideology is same. While Afghan taliban has promised not to let its territory used to attack other countries, TTP on the other hand is a hardcore terrorist organization amed to kill muslims and non muslims. Here's a little thread for you.
We don't have alternatives.. The afghan govt is corrupt, and is conducting a proxy war inside Pakistan via PTM, BLA, BRA and TTP.

Their expats are brainwashed with hatred against Pakistan due to be hateful narrative by the former northern alliance group that is essentially in power.

Despite multiple friendly overtures, the afghan govt is spewing more and more venom day by day against Pakistan. Even begging the Americans to bomb Pakistan at every opportunity they get.

Therefore, Afghan govt or more accurately, the northern alliance puppet govt must be relieved of duties. Proxy terror sanctuaries dismantled against Pakistan inside Afghanistan and Indian influence reduced to zero.
Relived of the duty to give the duty to whome? Talibans are also fanatics, they aren't that good. The only solution is to have a government compromised of every single afghan stakeholder. Even then i doubt there will be pecae in Pak.
 
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Soon even ghani and saleh will be surrendering to the taliban as well.
 
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I agree it should. And counter the Taliban by strengthening progressive Afghan groups such as the SPA ( Solidarity Party of Afghanistan ). What's the purpose of India having such a large military if it will not contribute positively to the neighborhood and elsewhere ? The contribution should include educational and medical collaboration like India does in UNO peacekeeping missions. This help to Afghanistan will also have a progressive feedback in India.



Seriously ? Will you also call the CIA / MI6 birthed Al Qaeda in 80s Afghanistan as "Mujahideen" ?

yes totally .

No .
 
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