A Very Personal Account of Pakistan's Downfall Under Zia ul Haq--the Proto Taliban President

[Nein]

Shut the f up Liberals

 

[gangsta_rap]

Cannot agree more. Zai ul Haq was the nail in the coffin for tolerance

he wasn't even sectarian loool

he had a shia hazara war hero as a chief minister in balochistan. on top of that he supported iran over iraq during their war (sold stingers,hosted iriaf jets etc)

 

[SQ8]

he wasn't even sectarian loool

he had a shia hazara war hero as a chief minister in balochistan. on top of that he supported iran over iraq during their war (sold stingers,hosted iriaf jets etc)

Sectarianism has nothing to do with it.
Religious extremism is what he bred, corruption in the military was his pet peeve.

 

[B.K.N]

he wasn't even sectarian loool

he had a shia hazara war hero as a chief minister in balochistan. on top of that he supported iran over iraq during their war (sold stingers,hosted iriaf jets etc)

Arguing with a desi liberal about Zia ul Haq equals to this

 

[gangsta_rap]

Sectarianism has nothing to do with it.
Religious extremism is what he bred, corruption in the military was his pet peeve.

alright you got me! Even chechens who went overboard in their zealousness was due to zia ul haq. daesh in the philipines is due to zia ul haq.

you name it - it all goes back to zia ul haq

 

[Crusher]

Zia ul Haq didn't cause any kind of "islamization" of pakistani society, he might have influenced how things were being portrayed on PTV. But we should remember that people hardly had any TV sets in those days in the entire streets in the cities and whole villages in rural areas, so 90% people had no influence from PTV at all and what was changing on PTV was none of their concern.

I was a child in 80s and I don't remember anything particularly "islamic" taking place during that time that didn't take place before that time according to my parents or after 90s which I personally witnessed. The only thing I remember was that most people used to have political support for Bhutto and people's party at that time and Zia was trying to counter that political support by bringing up new class of anti-bhutto anti-people's party elements in the politics under the old phateechar banner of Muslim league. The other thing that I remember from those days was that war was going on in Afghanistan between Russians and "Mujahideens" (ptv buzz word of those times, there was no taliban at that time which emerged in 1994) and Pakistan was fully involved in that war supporting Mujahdeens in Afghanistan. The only public islamization was that public offices used to get break for Zuhar prayer at noon, students used to pray ba-jamat zuhar prayer in winters in their schools, that was all the islamization.

Basant was taking place with full vigor during that time and it was never banned, music was never banned, poondi was taking place at that time too. If you ask me personally I would say that normal people on streets were more dirty minded in 80s than they are in 2019 in the cities and harassing girls and even young boys was also a common occurrence. Also people were overall far less religious than today's people especially the younger generation of that time. For a common pakistani pakistan was quite peaceful as far as law and order was concerned so nothing was wrong on that front despite a full fledge ware going on in our neighboring country on our western border. These are all my first hand memories from my childhood.

Now Zia did accomplish few things like

1. Pakistan's nuclear bomb was developed entirely in Zia ul Haq's time against all kinds of odds
2. Pakistan was forced to engage in war taking place between soviet russians and mujahdeen in afghanistan to stop subsequent russian expansion to Balochistan province of pakistan and I believe Zia successfully defended Pakistan from any kind of spill over of the war from Afghanistan to Pakistan.

Pakistan was really fighting for its survival throughout the tenure of Zia ul Haq, he hardly had any kind of "peace years" like his predecessors Ayub or Bhutto yet he insured the economic growth of pakistan, reduction in poverty and increasing literacy rate. People used to be dirt poor in pakistan until 80s despite so-called "development" done in Ayub or Bhutto's time, I remember half of the houses in the villages even in rural Gujranwala used to be made out of mud until 80s but with economic prosperity that happened during 80s I started seeing common people being able to build "pakkay ghar" even in villages.

 

[B.K.N]

Basant was taking place with full vigor

Basant is banned because it causes deaths not due to religious reasons

 

[Crusher]

Basant is banned because it causes deaths not due to religious reasons

Few deaths were taking place on basant even in those days too but still it was not banned, those deaths were just treated as accidents but as there was no "monkey private 24 hours media" in those days so there was no "news talks shows" going on about this kind of stuff. But deaths of people getting their necks cut due to "doar" while traveling on the motor bikes I never heard in those days, the reason could be that not many people used to have motorbikes in those days, it was a "luxury" item at that time just like the "TV set" particularly "color TV", most of the deaths during basant used to be due to children falling from rooftops or having accidents on the roads while catching kites.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Zia ul Haq didn't cause any kind of "islamization" of pakistani society, he might have influenced how things were being portrayed on PTV.

For starters:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Zia-ul-Haq's_Islamization



However, it was Bhutto who institutionalized Mullahism.. He was the man behind Pakistan's political Islamization. Zia only continued/pursued Bhutto's Islamization drive:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/musharaf-is-severely-ill-may-die-soon.599672/page-8#post-11140490

 

[The Accountant]

This is a rambling and a very personal account of the events in Pakistan from the 1970s through the 1980s. No expertise in history or philosophy or politics is being claimed here. The hope is that Pakistanis (and the world at large) would know that theocracy is a disaster eventually--you don't want to end up like Saudi Arabia or Iran. Pakistan almost did.

I don't know if I will have a lot of time to narrate these. I am fine and healthy. I am only in my 50's, for crying out loud. But who knows?

There are some videos shared here, just to illustrate things.

#1: Nazia Hassan shot to fame via Bollywood movie 'Qurbani'

#2: Nazia and her brother singing a great song together in 1980:

#3: Nazia Singing a great song in early 1980s. Much more covered up than #2 song above:

And here's a bit of personal account:
Nazia and I are a few weeks apart in age! I saw Nazia and Zoheb in PTV's 'Hum Hee Hum' show ran by Sohail Rana in early 1970s. My dad called the tv station. The producer said, yes, bring your children over for the recording. We (3 brothers, a sister, a cousin) went there. Mr. Rana auditioned us--basically saying something loud. We were In! The show was recorded, we saw ourselves and Nazia/Zoheb on tv a few days later. Yay!!

That was the personal account. Needless to say I always had a crush on Nazia. Like many other people. The news of her death came to me too late while I was deeply lost in the American labyrinth decades later. It still hurts. She was not only a great singer but beautiful and above all a great ambassador for Pakistan.

Now coming to more serious topic.

While #1 video via Bollywood brought Nazia to global fame, there was nothing wrong/obscene in video #2: Pakistan was, despite ALL the accusations against Zulfi Bhutto for Islamization, a liberal country then. A Sufi country!! But General Zia thought to turn Pakistan into another Saudi Arabia--he even tried to make Arabic the official language to 'unite' people. People like me and tons of people in their 40s+ are rightfully suspicious of such bigots. We DON'T want to become another Iran or Saudi Arabia...

And that brings to the video #3: See how covered Nazia is? General Zia tried to even ban PTV newscasters ladies and PIA ladies from putting on makeup--the ladies refused!!

In this rambling post..I am trying to say that Pakistan has always been a moderate Sufi society. PLEASE don't buy into the modern Haramkhors like the TLP Khadim Rizvi or anyone else like him. The 'liberals' in Pakistan can be sometimes too breast-beating even for my taste--and I am a staunch liberal myself--but Pakistan's salvation lies through open discourse and liberalism. I am seeing the the rise of liberalism in Pakistan. Let's not be extremists in either ways.

I will add more to this... But I am glad this is off my chest already.

West modernized not because liberalism but because of science and technology and the social justice system. I wonder that why we have so much concerns about dresses of females and rather than real issues of education, research and development and social justice system.

Despite of all the islamization or what Pakistan was still developing much faster tahn other countries during the Zia regmie and it aws political term oil of 90s that held us back.

Ok let suppose if our ladies become more exposing than what will happen, would this make us in a developed society? If yes then why countries like Philipine, east europe, africa are under developed? They are liberal, they are not religious extremist, then why?

Atleast get your problems right.

Saudia and Iran is not a good model and both are not followers of Islam but follower of sect but irrespective of you follow a sect or not, become religious or not, become liberal or conservative the development will come from education, science & technology, social justice and discipline in our nation ...

 

[Xestan]

Overwhelming majority of Pakistanis hated Zia, and the only reason he stayed in power for that long, was due to his use of religion. He knew it will appeal the masses, but in reality, it polarised Pakistan's population. Coming years will give rise to the division of Jinnah vs Zia's Pakistan. And the fight still goes on..

 

[Crusher]

Overwhelming majority of Pakistanis hated Zia, and the only reason he stayed in power for that long, was due to his use of religion. He knew it will appeal the masses, but in reality, it polarised Pakistan's population. Coming years will give rise to the division of Jinnah vs Zia's Pakistan. And the fight still goes on..

Absolutely baseless, people were not much into politics in those days outside of big cities, for people it never mattered who was ruling in islamabad, communication means were also very limited, 90% of people neither had TV nor telephone or even used to buy a newspaper. There was no political hysteria going on for 24 hours on daily basis in 80s the way it happens in modern times. Zia ul Haq never appeased anyone in his tenure. He was genuinely a religious person (yes such people do exist in pakistan and have always existed in the past too) that is why he wanted to conform some laws of pakistan to the spirit of islamic teachings but he wasn't doing these changes in laws to get any kind of "votes" of the people, he never needed them, come on he was a military dictator with firm grip on power till the last day of his life.

Apart from some hardcore People party's jiyalas and some elements from minority sects no one else had any issues with Zia regime, for a mainstream common pakistani particularly in punjab and kpk he was just another ruler like his predecessors.

 

[python-000]

Overwhelming majority of Pakistanis hated Zia, and the only reason he stayed in power for that long, was due to his use of religion. He knew it will appeal the masses, but in reality, it polarised Pakistan's population. Coming years will give rise to the division of Jinnah vs Zia's Pakistan. And the fight still goes on..

its your personal opinion now a days Israel back funded liberals are in full foam all over in Pakistan...

 

[M. Sarmad]

Overwhelming majority of Pakistanis hated Zia, and the only reason he stayed in power for that long, was due to his use of religion. He knew it will appeal the masses, but in reality, it polarised Pakistan's population. Coming years will give rise to the division of Jinnah vs Zia's Pakistan. And the fight still goes on..

It has been relatively recently that Zia has become Pakistan's great Aunt Sally. He had never been popular among the educated elites and leftists, but he played cleverly on the religious sentiments and aspirations of the middle-class and ignorant masses and "almost" got away with it but then the seeds of sectarian and religious extremism he had sown started bearing 'fruit' and the masses became disillusioned with the "Mard e Momin, Mard e Haq". For all his shortcomings, Zia had been a diehard patriot.

 

[Ghessan]

people in Pakistan are not themselves in any form in their own skin. either leftists or rightists or even forced and called leftists and rightists by others.

no body care what happened and what were the interests of the leaders, politicians, mullahs, generals etc through out the 70 years of history and we just follow them.

the day we (being neutral) will read the history of Pakistan from the movement of independence and how things develop and Pakistan came into being from a conservative Hindu society and Muslims being not only influenced but also planned and execute several rituals out of Islam to counter Hindu traditions, the death of Quaid, the conspiracies after him, the Objective Resolution passed with other interests behind it, disqualification of Fatima Jinnah under the influence of hard liners, the political decision to outlaw alcohol, derogatory implication of Islamic laws on women than men, democratic rule of 1990 and filthy politics; we will somehow able to understand where and when, what went wrong with the state of Pakistan and its people.

people were pushed and pulled by the elements for their own sake either politicians generals mullahs or anyone else with power, they use public for their own benefit.

mostly people here are influenced by their families and only study their respective school of thought. people have been denied of knowledge, what we know that knowledge is education and here we nose dive again, the day we will understand the difference between knowledge and the education we will be much better than what we are.

Deen is not conservative and not Liberal. it must not be interpreted by the mullahs. when we have mullahs as a necessity in our life for matters like help reciting Quran to our kids, making them learn how to offer Namaz, offering Namaz-e-Janaza and other such obligations we cannot compliant the outcome.

if someone say he/she make their kids learn how to offer Namaz, they may be mistaken again, if one help his kid learn to offer Namaz and he himself had learn from some Mullah is one in the same thing with same feedback into his or her own mind.

i don't say if someone learn Namaz from a mullah is wrong, wrong is the ideology one carries and why can't we ourselves help our children? but for that we must come up with knowledge of the religion.

we must not complain each other as we all may be wrong at some place, if we cannot analyze wrong in ourselves then what ever we debate is useless. a debate can be held among different thoughts of mind but cannot be among people with different caliber who lack knowledge and on the basis of knowledge only a debate must be held.