A Very Personal Account of Pakistan's Downfall Under Zia ul Haq--the Proto Taliban President

[B.K.N]

Today Imran Khan often cites the 'dictator' Ayub Khan's era as the golden era of Pakistan.

Imran Khan compares Ayub Khan with Bhutto not Zia ul Haq
and PMLN praises Bhutto because he was removed by army Nawaz ganja says army is behind everything bad happening to him it's just politics

And that all makes me happy. Pakistanis are looking back and analyzing what went right or wrong in Pakistan.

Right now Pakistan is many times better than what it was in 60s or 70s
be it litercy rate millitry power population living below poverty line in every regard Pakistan is much better

And most of Pakistanis aren't very religious niether they were ever in past

Kalashnakov

What is your problem with this beautiful machine

 

[SIPRA]

It is true that Zia ul Haq, owing to his certain personal inclinations, as well as political expediency, tried to radicalize the Pakistani society and state; but Pakistan returned to its fulcrum, which is moderation and tolerance. Hope, we continue on the same path.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Before you think about such abstract issues, first learn to take a sh!t properly by providing Indians with facilities. Does liberalism include enslaving the white race and may getting that white booty free of charge for the inferiority ridden Hindus?

And that's what you lot of degenerated into. No wonder.

 

[Baghial]

This is a rambling and a very personal account of the events in Pakistan from the 1970s through the 1980s. No expertise in history or philosophy or politics is being claimed here. The hope is that Pakistanis (and the world at large) would know that theocracy is a disaster eventually--you don't want to end up like Saudi Arabia or Iran. Pakistan almost did.

I don't know if I will have a lot of time to narrate these. I am fine and healthy. I am only in my 50's, for crying out loud. But who knows?

There are some videos shared here, just to illustrate things.

#1: Nazia Hassan shot to fame via Bollywood movie 'Qurbani'

#2: Nazia and her brother singing a great song together in 1980:

#3: Nazia Singing a great song in early 1980s. Much more covered up than #2 song above:

And here's a bit of personal account:
Nazia and I are a few weeks apart in age! I saw Nazia and Zoheb in PTV's 'Hum Hee Hum' show ran by Sohail Rana in early 1970s. My dad called the tv station. The producer said, yes, bring your children over for the recording. We (3 brothers, a sister, a cousin) went there. Mr. Rana auditioned us--basically saying something loud. We were In! The show was recorded, we saw ourselves and Nazia/Zoheb on tv a few days later. Yay!!

That was the personal account. Needless to say I always had a crush on Nazia. Like many other people. The news of her death came to me too late while I was deeply lost in the American labyrinth decades later. It still hurts. She was not only a great singer but beautiful and above all a great ambassador for Pakistan.

Now coming to more serious topic.

While #1 video via Bollywood brought Nazia to global fame, there was nothing wrong/obscene in video #2: Pakistan was, despite ALL the accusations against Zulfi Bhutto for Islamization, a liberal country then. A Sufi country!! But General Zia thought to turn Pakistan into another Saudi Arabia--he even tried to make Arabic the official language to 'unite' people. People like me and tons of people in their 40s+ are rightfully suspicious of such bigots. We DON'T want to become another Iran or Saudi Arabia...

And that brings to the video #3: See how covered Nazia is? General Zia tried to even ban PTV newscasters ladies and PIA ladies from putting on makeup--the ladies refused!!

In this rambling post..I am trying to say that Pakistan has always been a moderate Sufi society. PLEASE don't buy into the modern Haramkhors like the TLP Khadim Rizvi or anyone else like him. The 'liberals' in Pakistan can be sometimes too breast-beating even for my taste--and I am a staunch liberal myself--but Pakistan's salvation lies through open discourse and liberalism. I am seeing the the rise of liberalism in Pakistan. Let's not be extremists in either ways.

I will add more to this... But I am glad this is off my chest already.

A very boring story . ..........a human heart is only made for love of allah and his beloved prophet muhammad p.b.u.h,, and u bring nazia hassan... kurban jawan teri muslamani teh.

 

[xyxmt]

Why do you think that Pakistanis of all stripes still love GENERAL Ayub Khan over all the military rulers of Pakistan? Why is Zia at the bottom of the heap? Zia had Nawaz Sharif try to use Zia's 'legacy' but the legacy was so wrong that EVEN Nawaz Sharif distanced himself from Zia--and Nawaz was Zia's protege!!

There are reason for that, people love 1. Ayub and 2. Bhutto because they had accomplished something at least. None other politicians or dictators accomplished anything

 

[jamahir]

General Zia tried to even ban PTV newscasters ladies and PIA ladies from putting on makeup--the ladies refused!!

That reminds me. During the one year that Mohamed Morsi was president of Egypt from 2012 to 2013, there was established a TV channel called Maria TV. The staff was entirely female and they all wore the full burqa. The channel was shut down after Sisi became president after removing Morsi.

Liberalism have no future neither in Pakistan nor any where in the world. This is concept which is now getting rejected every where. And if your standard is crap on tv than under Zia time best dramas were produced in Pakistan.

Please define Liberalism.

 

[M. Sarmad]

We usually tend to overlook the fact that Zia didn't Islamize Pakistan, he Deobandized and Saudized Pakistan...

Even to this day, the majority of Pakistanis continues to follow the moderate and inclusive understanding of Islam. But as a result of the decades long state patronization of the radicalized interpretation, we, as a nation, have become intolerant and the space for any forms of dissent has shrunk considerably.

 

[B.K.N]

Saudized

What is your problem with saudis

 

[Dalit]

This is a rambling and a very personal account of the events in Pakistan from the 1970s through the 1980s. No expertise in history or philosophy or politics is being claimed here. The hope is that Pakistanis (and the world at large) would know that theocracy is a disaster eventually--you don't want to end up like Saudi Arabia or Iran. Pakistan almost did.

I don't know if I will have a lot of time to narrate these. I am fine and healthy. I am only in my 50's, for crying out loud. But who knows?

There are some videos shared here, just to illustrate things.

#1: Nazia Hassan shot to fame via Bollywood movie 'Qurbani'

#2: Nazia and her brother singing a great song together in 1980:

#3: Nazia Singing a great song in early 1980s. Much more covered up than #2 song above:

And here's a bit of personal account:
Nazia and I are a few weeks apart in age! I saw Nazia and Zoheb in PTV's 'Hum Hee Hum' show ran by Sohail Rana in early 1970s. My dad called the tv station. The producer said, yes, bring your children over for the recording. We (3 brothers, a sister, a cousin) went there. Mr. Rana auditioned us--basically saying something loud. We were In! The show was recorded, we saw ourselves and Nazia/Zoheb on tv a few days later. Yay!!

That was the personal account. Needless to say I always had a crush on Nazia. Like many other people. The news of her death came to me too late while I was deeply lost in the American labyrinth decades later. It still hurts. She was not only a great singer but beautiful and above all a great ambassador for Pakistan.

Now coming to more serious topic.

While #1 video via Bollywood brought Nazia to global fame, there was nothing wrong/obscene in video #2: Pakistan was, despite ALL the accusations against Zulfi Bhutto for Islamization, a liberal country then. A Sufi country!! But General Zia thought to turn Pakistan into another Saudi Arabia--he even tried to make Arabic the official language to 'unite' people. People like me and tons of people in their 40s+ are rightfully suspicious of such bigots. We DON'T want to become another Iran or Saudi Arabia...

And that brings to the video #3: See how covered Nazia is? General Zia tried to even ban PTV newscasters ladies and PIA ladies from putting on makeup--the ladies refused!!

In this rambling post..I am trying to say that Pakistan has always been a moderate Sufi society. PLEASE don't buy into the modern Haramkhors like the TLP Khadim Rizvi or anyone else like him. The 'liberals' in Pakistan can be sometimes too breast-beating even for my taste--and I am a staunch liberal myself--but Pakistan's salvation lies through open discourse and liberalism. I am seeing the the rise of liberalism in Pakistan. Let's not be extremists in either ways.

I will add more to this... But I am glad this is off my chest already.

Take the word Bollywood out of your plea and we can agree.

BTW, we did the same with the Americans during the Cold War. This was more problematic than Saudi Arabia or Iran in my opinion. Remember that the CIA sponsored Cold War Jihad throughout Pakistan and Afghanistan to fight against the Russians. We like to give the Americans a carte blanche. They shouldn't get one because the main architect of extremism in Pakistan is the USA.

 

[M. Sarmad]

What is your problem with saudis

I have a problem with Saudization of Pakistan, not with KSA
I have a problem with our wannabe desi Arabs, not the Saudis or Arabs, they are good people

Why? .... Simply because we are Pakistanis and our culture and identity is unique. We should not try to import culture/identity or religion/radicalization from other countries.

 

[B.K.N]

I have a problem with our wannabe desi Arabs,

I haven't seen anyone identifying himself as Arab

not the Saudis or Arabs, they are good people

But few days ago you were saying Saudis are bad people they treat Pakistani workers badly

 

[M. Sarmad]

I haven't seen anyone identifying himself as Arab

Then look again. You will find a lot of wannabe Arabs around you ... A few here on PDF as well..

But few days ago you were saying Saudis are bad people they treat Pakistani workers badly

Never said Arabs were bad people. The way they treat Pakistanis (or other Asians for that matter) is bad..... No one is perfect.... Arabs generally are good people....

Now stop derailing this thread.

 

[BHarwana]

Zia has both good side and bad side. Yes Zia did a lot of damage in sense of culture and society but he also did a lot of good in sense of stopping Russian invasion of KPK and Balochistan. To give a summary the hard core Islamic thinking was a need at the time to stop the Soviet advance and invasion and it was not Zia doing but direct result of too much liberal influence.

I will give a very realistic example of now days look at Europe and USA the whole region is going into a wave of right wing and people there are expecting it widely.

Life needs to have a balance in approach towards society if you let one sector take control the other will automatically kick in to bring change and that change is always damaging. Like @Zarvan said left is bad I agree but @Zarvan is not also 100% correct as well as society needs a middle ground to thrive. Every voice needs to be listen to.

A balanced society is always good to have a long term prosperity. In case of USA the population is not confused. I can see USA as Zia of Pakistan and for USA Trump is currently a need but not a long term solution. Similarly Zia was a need and mistake was he was given too much time to rule.
Every one should be allowed to follow his or her ideology and every one else should accept it but all this should happen within limits of hurting the core of opposing school of thoughts. There should be red lines which should not be exceeded at all.

Now in case of India it has given modi too much to consume and end result will be bad for India you and I will both see it in our life time. In my understanding Pakistan need to have a red line on both ends liberal and Islamic. Exploitation of people should not be allowed by liberals and mullah both a middle ground should be observed to carry society further.

 

[Meengla]

I am dead against leftist leaders in the Muslim countries. Whoever eliminates them automatically earns my appreciation...

Yes, let's embrace the Trumps, the Modis, the Netanyahus, the Zia ul Haqs of this world instead of J. Arderns or J. trudeaus of this world.

stop labeling everyone as extremist, if someone doesn't agree with you views that doesn't make them extremist.

My apologies. Got carried away. I have no right to call anyone extremist.

 

[Psychic]

This is a rambling and a very personal account of the events in Pakistan from the 1970s through the 1980s. No expertise in history or philosophy or politics is being claimed here. The hope is that Pakistanis (and the world at large) would know that theocracy is a disaster eventually--you don't want to end up like Saudi Arabia or Iran. Pakistan almost did.

I don't know if I will have a lot of time to narrate these. I am fine and healthy. I am only in my 50's, for crying out loud. But who knows?

There are some videos shared here, just to illustrate things.

#1: Nazia Hassan shot to fame via Bollywood movie 'Qurbani'

#2: Nazia and her brother singing a great song together in 1980:

#3: Nazia Singing a great song in early 1980s. Much more covered up than #2 song above:

And here's a bit of personal account:
Nazia and I are a few weeks apart in age! I saw Nazia and Zoheb in PTV's 'Hum Hee Hum' show ran by Sohail Rana in early 1970s. My dad called the tv station. The producer said, yes, bring your children over for the recording. We (3 brothers, a sister, a cousin) went there. Mr. Rana auditioned us--basically saying something loud. We were In! The show was recorded, we saw ourselves and Nazia/Zoheb on tv a few days later. Yay!!

That was the personal account. Needless to say I always had a crush on Nazia. Like many other people. The news of her death came to me too late while I was deeply lost in the American labyrinth decades later. It still hurts. She was not only a great singer but beautiful and above all a great ambassador for Pakistan.

Now coming to more serious topic.

While #1 video via Bollywood brought Nazia to global fame, there was nothing wrong/obscene in video #2: Pakistan was, despite ALL the accusations against Zulfi Bhutto for Islamization, a liberal country then. A Sufi country!! But General Zia thought to turn Pakistan into another Saudi Arabia--he even tried to make Arabic the official language to 'unite' people. People like me and tons of people in their 40s+ are rightfully suspicious of such bigots. We DON'T want to become another Iran or Saudi Arabia...

And that brings to the video #3: See how covered Nazia is? General Zia tried to even ban PTV newscasters ladies and PIA ladies from putting on makeup--the ladies refused!!

In this rambling post..I am trying to say that Pakistan has always been a moderate Sufi society. PLEASE don't buy into the modern Haramkhors like the TLP Khadim Rizvi or anyone else like him. The 'liberals' in Pakistan can be sometimes too breast-beating even for my taste--and I am a staunch liberal myself--but Pakistan's salvation lies through open discourse and liberalism. I am seeing the the rise of liberalism in Pakistan. Let's not be extremists in either ways.

I will add more to this... But I am glad this is off my chest already.

Nazia Hassan, bollywood, Islamization, Sufism, TLP(also sufi barelvis) --- aj kia ziada pee lee hay?

For over 70 years of fukups and blunders, we have found a way out---blame it all on Zia. Forget how Ayub lost Kashmir in 65 and how Bhutto destroyed industry by nationalization. Forget corruption of BB and Nawaz and blunders of the Guru of liberals Musharraf.

A policy decision was made that the presence of USSR in Afghanistan is against our national interests---that war was successfully fought.
Kalashankov, heroin, refugees were the price we had to pay to get a hostile nation out of our backyard---It was better than living in a fear of a simultaneous blitzkreig from Eastern and Western borders.

Zia was a usurper and a despot. However blaming him for every failure of Pakistan is an oversimplified and misleading version of the actual history.
But the policy of Afghan jihad would've remained the same under Bhutto as well---who started training rebels in Cherat and Attock.

If moderate Islam means drinking, gambling, sood khori and dance clubs to you then sorry to say that it's not allowed in Islam.