A Systematic Analysis :: Indian Missile Technology is Far More Advanced than Pakistan

[satishkumarcsc]

XiniX,

Dont we use the AS 17 Krypton with similar capabilities to RAAD? It is also a sea skimming Cruise missile.

 

[TaimiKhan]

taimi would u plz clear this..

So Its a A2S Glide Bomb or A2A Missile ?

Check the H2 & H4 link i have given.

Pshamim sir, whose Ex-PAF has clarified the issue, H-4 is a BVRAAM based on SA R-Darter missile technology. He has posted the pic which he had taken of the Pakistani built variant in Pakistan.

H-2 most probably would be the A2G variant, reason being we have Chinese and American WVR missiles which are good enough. What we lacked was a BVRAAM, which we got through this venture.

Read that thread from start, it would be clarified.

 

[SQ8]

H2 glide bomb. H4 was initially classified as A2A project, not to be confused with the NESCOM A2A missile.
The thread starter seems to have taken technological advances equivalent to operational needs.

Some clarifications in this regard are needed.

1. India needs 3500+ missile, it has to tackle China as well, But the Indian Military itself admits to only the prithvi being operational currently. The others are still with DRDO.
Pakistan already has regiments of Ghauri I&II, Abdali, Shaheen I&II Operational. Shaheen three is literally "ready to fire" but the current situation does not demand its development.

2. The Babur is derived from the tomahawk, while the Brahmos from klub. common knowledge. Only one based on a battle tested design. If supersonic capability was a massive edge then its surprising that the Americans never developed such a missile instead focusing on stealth for their cruise missiles.
The simple reason being range. However considering the proximity of India's target list for Pakistan the Brahmos is an effective weapon for tactical strike.

However, Pakistan needs to strike India deep and hard, therefore a subsonic missile with long range is a logical option.
Consequently as it stands today the Brahmos is a tactical strike weapon and is comparable to the Raad missle. The Babur is a strategic platform and meant for a different purpose.

3. India's edge in A2A and SAM systems is the only edge it truly holds. However with the Introduction of a BVR system in Pakistan's arsenal and newer SAM systems replacing the older crotale and HQ-2 series the operational needs will be met.
Just because my neighbor bought a BMW doesn't mean I need one if all I have to do is crash though his door.However if the aim of the article is to claim technological superiority then India has the edge in this field.

4.Quasi-Ballistic: I don't suppose its best to say anything more than saying that since we are only discussing missiles that have flown then India has the advantage.
I will not consider the 5 or 6 programs that only need the green light from the Pakistani government(specifically the FO and the defense ministry and finally a go ahead from the Prime minister) to test ready to go. systems.

5. The idea that the Bakhtar shikan is just a Pakistani HJ-8 is stupidity. It has better optics, a better motor,greater range and uses a better user interface A laser guided version has been tested.( but thanks to some "heroes" in Army procurement this has been ignored in favor of a foreign alternative which never came but the Major general was able to afford BMW during the process).

6. Canesterization offers advantages in compactness and storage. The different types of Canister launch techniques are the actual decider.
One being the cold launch and the other the hot launch.

" In a hot launch system the missile motor is ignited while the missile is in the launch canister. This approach requires significant efflux management to due to the forces and debris produced as a consequence of allowing the primary the missile launch motor to be ignited within the launch tube. In such a launch system the missile accelerates rapidly and conducts turnover with a high vertical velocity component.
The problems associated with state of the art hot launch systems relate in most part to the effects of the missile efflux on the launch tube and surrounding structure. In terms of launch tube design, in a hard launch system the canister surrounding the missile is designed to safely contain a ‘hangfire’ situation. In such a situation a missile launch may have been initiated but for some technical reason the missile is unable to leave the canister. The missile motor therefore continues to burn for the duration of its fuel load whilst still in the canister. In order to prevent damage to surrounding structure or indeed adjacent missiles if the missiles are held in a multiple launch system, hard launch canisters are therefore generally of a high strength and corresponding high mass design."

" In a cold launch system, the missile rocket motor is ignited only after it has been “pushed” out of its canister and in some instances orientated towards its intended flight path. An example of such a system would be the SA-N-6 that entered the Russian navy in the late 80's on board Kirkov-class and Slava-class cruisers.
Disadvantages associated with cold launch systems include the requirement for the launch tube to contain apparatus required to eject a missile, thereby adding to the mass and complexity of the canister and missile assembly.
The launch tube utilised in state of the art cold launch systems usually employ an explosive charge dedicated to ejecting the missile from the canister, thereby requiring the tube to retain an element of efflux management. Additionally, due to the use of an ejection charge launch debris is still produced which can lead to unwanted subsequent identification of a launch site and the possibility of damage of unwanted interference with missile sensor windows."

The cold launch used by the Shaurya missile offers advantages for use specifically in a Submarine. By ejecting the missile via an inert or non explosive gas the launch system can be more compact and has to meet less durability standards. This also affords better protection for the crew.
Babur is a hot launch system. If and when Pakistan acquires a Submersible capable of carrying Babur the cold launch system will be built.

and oh BTW

This is a Babur TEL with Canisterized Babur missiles. Just because you see the missiles doesn't mean its not canisterized. Each of these missiles is ready to launch within seconds.

So NO advantage to India in this department.

NOW conclusively.
India has the edge in:

Sams, BVR(till the Pakistani BVR is publicly unveiled),Quasi Ballistic(or is it, the article also states a source identifying the sharuya as a hypersonic cruise missile..which is it?),ABM,SLBM.

Pakistan has the edge in:
Long range cruise missile, Operational warheads capable of evasive maneuvers and CEP of 50m on three Missile systems.(I have seen a video back in 99 showing a Shaheen reenty vehicle taking out the target flag i.e Impacting the FLAG since the warhead was inert in the middle of a 100m radius circle used as target area at sonmiani with winds)

I should also give Pakistan the edge in MRBM's since India has no operational regiments of Agni missiles. Yet, if otherwise please correct me with a reliable non-Pran Chopra type source.

Till then ill concede neither side having an advantage in MRBM's if one is to follow the thread starters criteria.

My two dollars and 50 cents.

 

[ISRO]

1. India needs 3500+ missile, it has to tackle China as well, But the Indian Military itself admits to only the prithvi being operational currently. The others are still with DRDO.
Pakistan already has regiments of Ghauri I&II, Abdali, Shaheen I&II Operational. Shaheen three is literally "ready to fire" but the current situation does not demand its development.

Indian Army never say that .... its ur media hip nothing else ...
secondly if you talk about Indian missiles so when Pakistan never show their failure to any one so how can we know that all ur current missiles are working well ????

 

[Frankenstein]

Indian Army never say that .... its ur media hip nothing else ...
secondly if you talk about Indian missiles so when Pakistan never show their failure to any one so how can we know that all ur current missiles are working well ????

Dude when the missile fails while testing in front of media then obviously everyone will know about that, Pakistan missile never failed while testing, is it too hard for you to swallow

 

[ISRO]

Dude when the missile fails while testing in front of media then obviously everyone will know about that, Pakistan missile never failed while testing, is it too hard for you to swallow

Please tell me any one occasion when Pakistan test its missile infront of media .... I am also heart that last time they test two missile (Shaheen-1 and Ghaznavi) even that was not tested in front of media they show it after that ....
if ur missiles are that much accurate then why ur forces not test them infront of media????

 

[TaimiKhan]

Indian Army never say that .... its ur media hip nothing else ...
secondly if you talk about Indian missiles so when Pakistan never show their failure to any one so how can we know that all ur current missiles are working well ????

Pakistan media never said that, its common sense saying that a Missile with 3500KM range would definitely not for Pakistan, as for Pakistan a 500-700KM missile is more then enough. Pakistan's total depth with respect to India is 350Km to most probably around 600+KM, thus there is no need for such a long range missile, so common sense would dictate, its for someone else, China or any other adversary in future.

And every missile program goes through failure, as without it, success can't be achieved.

Pakistan missile program must have gone through failures also, but the ratio would be very much less, reason being most of the Pakistani missiles are based on tested and operational Chinese platforms, thus not a high rate of failures.

But with passage of time, Pakistan has been improving its missiles and making them better, so they may face failures in future also. And its not a big deal. But as per our military, they keep all their things secret and let it out when its done.

And many of the tests in the past have been done infront of media with some important head of state present and shown on the TV also, and such missile tests are known publicly in advance, so if any failure would have happened, we would have heard of the test launching program canceled and India would be the first one to know, as they are told in advance about a ballistic missile test and hopefully Indian radars may be able to track missile launches.

And as for the recent tests of 2 missiles, do remember, they were operational missiles and tested during Pakistan's largest exercises by the field formations, so no need for media.

But our missiles have been tested and after have been found reliable enough, have been put into operational status and are with the Strategic Forces.

 

[SQ8]

Indian Army never say that .... its ur media hip nothing else ...
secondly if you talk about Indian missiles so when Pakistan never show their failure to any one so how can we know that all ur current missiles are working well ????

You'd have to go to war with us to find out.

And oh by the way, the report on Prithvi being the only operational missile was from the Times of India. I don't think that is published in Pakistan.

 

[Comet]

Bravo Santro Bravo. Good Work

Please if you could format your post a bit to make it more readable.

 

[!!craft!!]

You'd have to go to war with us to find out.

And oh by the way, the report on Prithvi being the only operational missile was from the Times of India. I don't think that is published in Pakistan.

can you please show the link wanna see the date this article was posted .was it today? or three to four years back??

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Pshamim sir, whose Ex-PAF has clarified the issue, H-4 is a BVRAAM based on SA R-Darter missile technology. He has posted the pic which he had taken of the Pakistani built variant in Pakistan.

I never knew that

i thought its BVR-AGM

 

[Chanakyaa]

Firends, this thread is not intended to prove if whose missile does what...which is what we do is other threads and it ends up in troll...troll...

We are comparing just the technology... and considering that both have tested and capable missiles no matter if its tested without media...


Guys whats the use of trollimg with point which not side can proove nor will accept.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I never knew that

i thought its BVR-AGM

many thought so, as there was no official confirmation, but it now seems we had and have a BVRAAM as well as land attack PGMs programs both being carried on simultaneously.

 

[SQ8]

Bravo Santro Bravo. Good Work

Please if you could format your post a bit to make it more readable.

Better now?

 

[SQ8]

Firends, this thread is not intended to prove if whose missile does what...which is what we do is other threads and it ends up in troll...troll...

We are comparing just the technology... and considering that both have tested and capable missiles no matter if its tested without media...


Guys whats the use of trollimg with point which not side can proove nor will accept.

If you wish to compare technology then by my own personal experience and contacts I can assure you that we are equal to you in possessing all the research and capabilities needed to put systems equal or better than yours out in less than 6 months.
The reason we don't do it is because we don't need it currently or have other priorities for our limited funds.
Think about it; The Americans built a technological wonder of a billion dollars called the XB-70, It was the tip of aerospace tech back in the 60's. Eventually though they found out that the SA-2 and SA-5 built by the Russians at 1/50th of the cost carried technology that was equally potent to bring the billion dollar investment down.
The F-35 is currently the pinnacle of Fighter development, yet in hundreds of simulations conducted on tens of analysis software across the western world reveal that a Su-30MKK will kick its butt across the sky.
So how does one gauge technological superiority? Something that was designed yesterday or something that does the same job equally effectively if with a little less pomp?
Claiming technological superiority by your analysis is well, frankly ridiculous. Its like saying that since we have blue film stars out there with bigger . we are better at you know what.Just because I am hung like a moose doesn't mean I gotta do **** to prove I'm good at it..
Mods please let this "paragraph" stay, Its...uhh..well supposed to make a point in the simplest terms.


I don't like or engage in "trolling" if you will but If the entire object of your thread is to claim that you are making Ps3's while Pakistan is still stuck with the Xbox then so be it. You may keep the title, but history has proved again and again that this is not the acid test . And if you wish to be happy about your gadgets then please enjoy and I appreciate the ingenuity and prowess of India, Heck I am a fan of the IAF as it is now, but your tone and that of countless other Indian's in this forum(which seems to be now dominated by you) is more akin to rubbing it in for Pakistani's. When will your Nation mature and get out of the "My daddy's got a bigger car" attitude?. And what is most disappointing is the reactionary boasting one gets from more and more Pakistani members. They cant resist getting down to the level and engaging in this pointless banter about each others "cojones".