A Race Pakistan Cannot Possibly Win

[HariPrasad]

so letting Pakistani snipers kill or injure 10 indian soldiers in a week is just fun and hijinks

Some small collateral damage only.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Exactly, how?

I am curious. It is a single warhead weapon. So, I did post a datum just a few posts earlier, are you proposing to put all your reported 220 (make 250) to stop the armoured division, independent armoured brigades and that too in your own territory, in near proximity to the towns/cities?

Or are you suggesting you will use them with a mix of conventional and non-conventional munitions? (rather cost ineffective for you then)

(Not to mention exactly how many warheads/delivery systems do you think, will actually be available to you for use?)

as a Last resort low Yielding Nuclear warhead can easily wipe out a formation . but I am not a fan of this solution , NASR even without Nuclear warhead is still a good system , because of Multiple Launch system , plus its ballistic missile so its trajectory makes it hard to intercept by the SR-SAM moving with IA formations .

How many systems is a hard question, cause those things are highly Classified .

 

[SQ8]

Am not sure who is obsessed with who... the one who call us gangadeshi instead of Indians? Or the other one who tends insult Indians every now and then...

@Oscar if you don't want Indians to participate , simply block everyone... or let us know.. we can contact our authorities to do the job... just look at some guys posts.... it's weird that PDF still allowing invented names...

If it was upto me, I WOULD!

 

[thinkingcap81]

If it was upto me, I WOULD!

Then PDF would become very similar to the Indian defence forums you people despise. The subcontinent is not great at moderating itself unless some countervailing thought is present.

 

[SQ8]

Then PDF would become very similar to the Indian defence forums you people despise. The subcontinent is not great at moderating itself unless some countervailing thought is present.

I doubt it. Our track record of moderation is far far better than any comparable Indian forum and that is said with the utmost humbleness.
It is the reason Indians flock here and now dare spread hatred and troll here due to our attempts to treat everyone at the same level.

 

[thinkingcap81]

I doubt it. Our track record of moderation is far far better than any comparable Indian forum and that is said with the utmost humbleness.
It is the reason Indians flock here and now dare spread hatred and troll here due to our attempts to treat everyone at the same level.

It is a two-way street. If you moderate well, welcome others to a reasonable extent, then netizens will come.

Did this forum start with the intent that it would welcome everyone and would make decent efforts to keep it that way or is it your claim that it is an inherent attitude of the management team to be welcoming without any (enforced?) policy to be open and fair to all?

If you allow many Pakistani members to spew venom they can easily drive us all away.

Anyway i heard that Pakistanis are very hospitable. Too bad many Indians troll to the same level as many Paks do which is a problem since we are essentially guests here.

 

[SQ8]

It is a two-way street. If you moderate well, welcome others to a reasonable extent, then netizens will come.

Did this forum start with the intent that it would welcome everyone and would make decent efforts to keep it that way or is it your claim that it is an inherent attitude of the management team to be welcoming without any (enforced?) policy to be open and fair to all?

If you allow many Pakistani members to spew venom they can easily drive us all away.

Anyway i heard that Pakistanis are very hospitable. Too bad many Indians troll to the same level as many Paks do which is a problem since we are essentially guests here.

This forum has done quite well, even accomodated supposed ex-Pakistanis who do nothing else except spew venom at the admin and then whine when banned.
However the influx of bhakt-nazis inspired recently has made most Pakistanis hateful and the usual trolls more acceptable. If this hatred is the only outcome of interaction then none is the better way.

 

[thinkingcap81]

This forum has done quite well, even accomodated supposed ex-Pakistanis who do nothing else except spew venom at the admin and then whine when banned.
However the influx of bhakt-nazis inspired recently has made most Pakistanis hateful and the usual trolls more acceptable. If this hatred is the only outcome of interaction then none is the better way.

??

Sometimes the young crowd (around 20 ish age) in India is quite aggressive and disrespectful. But they are probably also more confident than the older ones.

 

[hussain0216]

Some small collateral damage only.

Tiny dick, no balls what use are Indians in this state?

 

[Hellfire]

as a Last resort low Yielding Nuclear warhead can easily wipe out a formation . but I am not a fan of this solution , NASR even without Nuclear warhead is still a good system , because of Multiple Launch system , plus its ballistic missile so its trajectory makes it hard to intercept by the SR-SAM moving with IA formations .

How many systems is a hard question, cause those things are highly Classified .

Then the question comes, which remains very pertinent, how much is your reprocessing capability?

That is where the misperception of NASR - defence against Armoured Formations etc etc falls flat.

I shall urge you to think it over, and the reason why it is pretty lame. And find out from those who have an idea, to clear your points.

Other than ignorant (frankly, people are) ideas about using TNWs and hyping by media and ex-forces officers in one up manship on Prime Time TV (who are, incidentally, ignorant at times themselves) to boost TRP and the usual answer in PDF, it is hardly of significance.

The most effective weapons which you have for the Armoured Divisions aspect is your 'superiority' of numbers in SPGs, which, in certain cases, have a too long a logistic chain to allow you flexibility in one particular platform.

As for the bold, we and you, both have fair bit of idea

PS: Although officially we have not fielded Prahaar, we have them for precisely this reason, a nuisance value to speak about

 

[VCheng]

Then the question comes, which remains very pertinent, how much is your reprocessing capability?

That is where the misperception of NASR - defence against Armoured Formations etc etc falls flat.

I shall urge you to think it over, and the reason why it is pretty lame. And find out from those who have an idea, to clear your points.

Other than ignorant (frankly, people are) ideas about using TNWs and hyping by media and ex-forces officers in one up manship on Prime Time TV (who are, incidentally, ignorant at times themselves) to boost TRP and the usual answer in PDF, it is hardly of significance.

The most effective weapons which you have for the Armoured Divisions aspect is your 'superiority' of numbers in SPGs, which, in certain cases, have a too long a logistic chain to allow you flexibility in one particular platform.

As for the bold, we and you, both have fair bit of idea

PS: Although officially we have not fielded Prahaar, we have them for precisely this reason, a nuisance value to speak about

This is a miniature Cold War between nuclear rivals, it seems like it more and more everyday. And, just as before, the winner will be decided not by nuclear weapons, but by the economy, it also seems like.

 

[Hellfire]

I'm not a military person nor do i understand battlefield tactics etc., but from wiki it seems that Pak has a decent amount of SPGs and A-100s, similar to the numbers fielded by India. So i was wondering how just a 100 or so K-9s can be so effective. Same about how a few ATAGS can be so overwhelming.

It has to do with tactics. And if you do look at the ratio of field artillery pieces (towed), we have about 2 times or so more. It is, after all, the quantum of force that can be brought to bear upon the adversary at a particular point of time.

Hypothetically, Armoured Formations under the so called Cold Start, will be breaching the IB first (of course expect casualty rates of about 65-80% in that assault for worst case planning). Since these will be preceded by fire assaults by the Artillery, much of mobility is not needed. Even after breach (mind you, the adversary will be having a mine field laid, so it takes time for the replenishment and logistics vehicles to drive up, and in case of Punjab - you will need bridging equipment and in Rajasthan - sand tracks for the vehicles), you will have time as consolidation of the breach has to be done in order to exploit it.

And all this while, you do not expect the adversary to wait for you, right?

So, here, their SPGs will be an advantage for them to switch their force levels in a comparatively shorter time (purely for fire support). It is a long boring sequence of ifs and buts. So, just a gist. Ponder over that.

A few years back I was told by my friend whose brother is a brigadier in the IA, that the IA is not worried and is quite confident of defeating PA in the conventional war domain. Same sentiments were echoed by a few infantry soldiers and a couple of officers i met. They said that those days are long gone when Pak could contemplate a first initiative kind of operation.

The adversary is a professional army, that one must never make a mistake of ignoring. But they have the basic handicap of proximity of their critical centres adjacent to the border, the loss of which will be a public relation debacle. Hence, they may, under pressure and given the right circumstances, make decisions that may prove costly for them.

That has been the trend in all the wars so far. Great troops, but next to useless leadership, both political and professional.

This is a miniature Cold War between nuclear rivals, it seems like it more and more everyday. And, just as before, the winner will be decided not by nuclear weapons, but by the economy, it also seems like.

That is what the game is, as far as I can make out, on Indian side. The costs are simply too great for Pakistan. We expect a sudden surge in capability enhancement starting 2022 if things remain on course and Modi is re-elected. The way he is pushing the agenda of streamlining governance, improving accountability and actually implementing and executing projects on ground, is something I have not seen earlier. The declared intent is to get economically on a string footing and then boost defence capability. Till then, it is just to maintain minimum balance against a two front war. That is why you see him hedging with US, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc etc ...

 

[VCheng]

That is what the game is, as far as I can make out, on Indian side. The costs are simply too great for Pakistan. We expect a sudden surge in capability enhancement starting 2022 if things remain on course and Modi is re-elected. The way he is pushing the agenda of streamlining governance, improving accountability and actually implementing and executing projects on ground, is something I have not seen earlier. The declared intent is to get economically on a string footing and then boost defence capability. Till then, it is just to maintain minimum balance against a two front war. That is why you see him hedging with US, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc etc ...

It seems like a pretty logical and entirely predictable strategy that should be evident to both sides. No surprises here and perhaps no surprises at how it could end if the present trajectories continue, either.

 

[Cuirassier]

Guys talking like they're gonna be wars like this anymore, can't see anything special in the coming years, the usual crossfire and verbal bouts, periods of escalation and relative peace. Status Quo will always be maintained.

 

[danger007]

If it was upto me, I WOULD!

May be i can help you with that..