A Race Pakistan Cannot Possibly Win

[danger007]

No body beats you

Am not using filthy language .. i guess you know whom is using..

 

[My-Analogous]

Am not using filthy language .. i guess you know whom is using..

Filthy meaning in Hindi is" गंदा ". Now show me where i used that in my post?. Why you Indian always so hypocrites?

 

[Mugwop]

That race cannot be won given the current trajectories of both nations. I also doubt that we are trying to win against China - at least this aspect does not seem to have sunk into our national consciousness right now.


We can try miniature nukes a la Pakistan with the goal that only a teeny-weeny part of Karachi will be affected.

The only situation when we may use any nuke is if you nuke us.

We are a very responsible power. Inspite of grave provocations from you we will just use a micro-nuke to let the world know how much our restraint is.

Just a lil nuke.

This will increase India's stature enormously and we will gain the respect of the world.

I agree with the first line you said but it's very hard to explain to others about it.Good luck trying

Doubt? Why name your missle china killer?

Gain respect of the world by using micro-nuke? Did you forget how the US and UK reacted in 1971?

 

[thinkingcap81]

Doubt? Why name your missle china killer?

Did any official Indian sources call it as China killer? Just some usual jingoistic media houses named it so.

Gain respect of the world by using micro-nuke? Did you forget how the US and UK reacted in 1971?

My comment was actually meant for Pakistan. We have a declared NFU nuke policy.

It is your establishment which talks of small nukes for stopping Indian IBGs; now from your comment you can see how preposterous this tactical nuke thing is. Are you going to lob nukes the moment Indian IBGs enter Pak territory or are you going to use them if and when they are near civilian population?

 

[Mugwop]

Did any official Indian sources call it as China killer? Just some usual jingoistic media houses named it so.



My comment was actually meant for Pakistan. We have a declared NFU nuke policy.

It is your establishment which talks of small nukes for stopping Indian IBGs; now from your comment you can see how preposterous this tactical nuke thing is. Are you going to lob nukes the moment Indian IBGs enter Pak territory or are you going to use them if and when they are near civilian population?

That depends

 

[CriticalThought]

@Anik101

Please. Everything is answered by NASR & MIRVs. Now do not ask how will they have enough warheads to place in both NASR and MIRVS to make an impact on the Pivot Corps which will be entering 48 hours prior to Strike Corps, let alone the Strike Corps and the Armoured Divisions.

To quote Col Narendar Singh, Ph.D.* from his work "Nuclear Option - Calling the Pakistani Bluff"



Imagery analysis of the Nasr missile suggests that its diameter is 30 centimetres (about 12 inches) across and could therefore be able to carry a very compact nuclear warhead comparable to the U.S. W-33 nuclear artillery shell that has a yield varying from less than 1 kiloton to about 10 kilotons. 43 Simulations of a 10-kiloton explosion produced a peak static overpressure of 33.35 psi at 370 meters (about 405 yards). This overpressure only displaced a tank by “about 2.5 meters with acceleration sufficient to inflict moderate damage to external fittings such as track guards, but the tank was able to be driven off and its gun fired after sand and debris had been removed from the barrel,” according to the 1994 study Nuclear Weapons: Principles, Effects and Survivability. Incapacitating a tank requires an overpressure of about 45 psi. [Charles S. Grace, Nuclear Weapons: Principles, Effects and Survivability (London: Brassey’s, 1994), 58.] A 1-kiloton explosion at a height of about 150 meters (about 492 feet) results in “overpressures of 45 psi at horizontal distances from ground zero as large as about 170 meters . . . then a 15 kt burst at a height of about 400 m would generate an overpressure of 3 atm up [45 psi] to a distance of about 420 meters, i.e., over an area of 0.55 km.” One 15-kiloton weapon should destroy about 55 tanks, if the tanks are spaced at 100 meters (about 328 feet) apart. (See table 1 for another estimate of the effects on tanks separated by 100 meters.)

If tanks are spaced at 300 meters (or 984 feet) apart, the number of weapons necessary to achieve 55 so-called kills rises from one to eight. By this calculation, destroying a well-dispersed force of 500 tanks would likely require 100 X15-kiloton weapons. [Charles S. Grace, Nuclear Weapons: Principles, Effects and Survivability (London: Brassey’s, 1994), 58.] Although the depth of a tank formation would depend on the relative spacing between each tank, such as “50 meters apart in rows separated by 250 meters (the effective spacing would be 120 meters),” a tank force expecting a nuclear attack would be more dispersed, which would also reduce the immediate radiation effects on the tank crews. Another lower estimate posits that if “tanks were separated by even greater distances, it would require the use of over 80 nuclear weapons of 15 kt yield each to disable or kill the crews in a force of 1000 tanks.” [Charles S. Grace, Nuclear Weapons: Principles, Effects and Survivability (London: Brassey’s, 1994), 58.] According to a 2001 estimate by Ashley J. Tellis, Pakistan would need “37 weapons of 15 kt (or 57 weapons of 8 kt) to operationally disable an Indian armored division.” [Ashley J. Tellis, India’s Emerging Nuclear Posture: Between Recessed Deterrent and Ready Arsenal (Santa Monica, CA: RAND Corporation, 2001), 133–34.]

Table 1: The Effects of Nuclear Weapons Against Tanks Separated by 100 Meters
Yield (kilotons) Number of tanks destroyed by blast Number of tank crews disabled by radiation
15 64 360
10 48 290
5 32 190
1 10 110
110
Source: A. H. Nayyar and Zia Mian, “Pakistan and the Nasr Missile: Searching for a Method in the Madness,” Economic and Political Weekly 50, no. 39 (September 2015), http://www.epw.in/system/files/pdf/2015_50/39/Pakistan_and_the_Nasr_Missile.pdf.



Cross posting has done in the alignments, so, excuse me for that.

Thank you for showing everyone how Nasr puts cold water on cold start. Armor needs a certain concentration in order to be a potent punching force and break through enemy front lines. In a highly dispersed state, you will be picked out easily by UCAV and helis. And as you very well know, under Azm PAC is going for in-house manufacturing of MALE drones and we are also getting ATAK from Turkey. Not to mention the Z-10s once the Chinese sort out the problems.

I look forward to the turkey shoot of dispersed Indian armor.

 

[Hellfire]

Thank you for showing everyone how Nasr puts cold water on cold start. Armor needs a certain concentration in order to be a potent punching force and break through enemy front lines. In a highly dispersed state, you will be picked out easily by UCAV and helis. And as you very well know, under Azm PAC is going for in-house manufacturing of MALE drones and we are also getting ATAK from Turkey. Not to mention the Z-10s once the Chinese sort out the problems.

I look forward to the turkey shoot of dispersed Indian armor.

Impressed if that is your take from it

Impressed also with the fact that you assume your UCAVs and Combat Helis will be airborne in case of an attack, in adequate numbers and without the overhead cover of the mobile SAMs & I am not even going to bother with the fact of own air/strike missions to negate the same

Suggest speak to an Armoured Corps officer, understand the composition of an Indian Armoured Division (as you all claim NASR to be directed against; the Officer will have a pretty good idea on the make up) and then quote me

Unlike you, sir, I happen to know precisely of what I speak of.

@MilSpec I love such 'seniors' Kahaan se aa jate hain?

 

[CriticalThought]

Impressed if that is your take from it

Impressed also with the fact that you assume your UCAVs and Combat Helis will be airborne in case of an attack, in adequate numbers

Suggest speak to an Armoured Corps officer, understand and then quote me

@MilSpec I love such 'seniors' Kahaan se aa jate hain?

Well of course Indian mobile SAMs can take out all if Pakistan's mass produced drones and NOE strategies of attack helis are completely useless against them, even when advancing columns are highly dispersed. Typical Indian.

 

[Hellfire]

Well of course Indian mobile SAMs can take out all if Pakistan's mass produced drones and NOE strategies of attack helis are completely useless against them, even when advancing columns are highly dispersed. Typical Indian.

Typical Pakistani living outside the country safely ... living in delusion, championing the nation gleefully along a stupid notion, because it feels good to be the typical internet warrior, never having spent a day in the field in foxhole, dissociated from combat and operations, commenting on matters you do not know anything of, just because, if shit hits the fan, 'hey, how am I affected? I am sitting in Australia!'

You are a laugh

 

[CriticalThought]

Typical Pakistani living outside the country safely ... living in delusion, championing the nation gleefully along a stupid notion, because it feels good to be the typical internet warrior, never having spent a day in the field in foxhole, dissociated from combat and operations, commenting on matters you do not know anything of, just because, if shit hits the fan, 'hey, how am I affected? I am sitting in Australia!'

You are a laugh

The above feel good, tangential commentary only reveals you are totally flummoxed. Present reasoning and avoid personal attacks.

 

[Hellfire]

The above feel good, tangential commentary only reveals you are totally flummoxed. Present reasoning and avoid personal attacks.

Reasoning was given, with citations. Tangential? LOL. Go and learn about the composition of an Armoured Division, elements in it, and the deployment in an attack formation, what elements are deployed in terms of support etc. If you were even 1% aware, you would not have used 'tangential'!

Were you able to refrain with baiting, to quote you: 'Typical India'?

You baited and I responded to the typical of you lot, who live outside Pakistan, and who will not be affected by actions undertaken in the false bravado which is hallmark of the ignorants here.

And you felt it is personal? What made you feel that it was personal? The fact that the underlying ignorance was being highlighted and you found it offensive?

Tell me something my dear sir, if you were so confident, why the hell has Pakistan not undertaken a military offensive in Kashmir Valley? It is, after all, acknowledged as a dispute, for India signed the Shimla Agreement in 1972 and recognised it as such. And in today's world, we would be hard pressed to open another front outside the area. And even if we do, your NASR will do the needful, as per your claims!

Wonder why?

We have two issues, so we can never do that militarily:
1. Our socio-economic progress & masses of poverty to address.
2. What to do with you even after winning a war? You are so unstable and radicalized!

But you have neither, no social problems as all are in India (as per PDF), no economic woes (as Iron Brother will give as also Saudis and Turkish Brothers; but brothers do let you down too )

Think hard on that one.

I will not even bother on trying to get you to use your grey cells, not my problem if you do not, on figuring the number of UCAVs you have, their deployments and sector allocations and the attrition rates. You plan to use 1 UCAV per tank to eliminate it?

I already posted obliquely a reference to your economic capacity and reprocessing limitations If you think Pakistan has 1000s of UCAVs, then good for you


@LeGenD was trying the other day to drive in a point to some Pakistani member(s) on the stupidity of assuming that Satellites need only clouds and night time to blind. The said member(s) were doing precisely what you were doing, exhibiting an ignorance of a subject, and beating him with experience in it.

 

[CriticalThought]

Reasoning was given, with citations. Tangential? LOL. Go and learn about the composition of an Armoured Division, elements in it, and the deployment in an attack formation, what are are deployed in terms of support etc. If you were even 1% aware, you would not have used 'tangential'!

Were you able to refrain with baiting, to quote you: 'Typical India'?

You baited and I responded to the typical of you lot, who live outside Pakistan, and who will not be affected by actions undertaken in the false bravado which is hallmark of the ignorants here.

And you felt it is personal? What made you feel that it was personal? The fact that the underlying ignorance was being highlighted and you found it offensive?

Tell me something my dear sir, if you were so confident, why the hell has Pakistan not undertaken a military offensive in Kashmir Valley? It is, after all, acknowledged as a dispute, for India signed the Shimla Agreement in 1972 and recognised it as such. And in today's world, we would be hard pressed to open another front outside the area. And even if we do, your NASR will do the needful, as per your claims!

Wonder why?

We have two issues, so we can never do that militarily:
1. Our socio-economic progress & masses of poverty to address.
2. What to do with you even after winning a war? You are so unstable and radicalized!

But you have neither, no social problems as all are in India (as per PDF), no economic woes (as Iron Brother will give as also Saudis and Turkish Brothers; but brothers do let you down too )

Think hard on that one.

I will not even bother on trying to get you to use your grey cells, not my problem if you do not, on figuring the number of UCAVs you have, their deployments and sector allocations and the attrition rates. You plan to use 1 UCAV per tank to eliminate it?

I already posted obliquely a reference to your economic capacity and reprocessing limitations If you think Pakistan has 1000s of UCAVs, then good for you


@LeGenD was trying the other day to drive in a point to some Pakistani member(s) on the stupidity of assuming that Satellites need only clouds and night time to blind. The said member(s) were doing precisely what you were doing, exhibiting an ignorance of a subject, and beating him with experience in it.

This is exactly what happens when your world view is what you see inside your own ar*e. Take your head out. The Pakistan army has more resources than you see in the annual budget of the State of Pakistan. Where do you think we got 100+ Thunders from? Our defence is seen as being of a strategic nature by China. This is why, when you see PAC revealing plans, you should sit up and listen. Rest your talk about 1 UCAV per tank just reflects your pathetic state of mind.

I know very well what comprises armor batallions and I know there exists a paradoxical quandry. Concentrate forces and risk mass elimination, or spread thin and lose potency. Nasr forces you to become impotent and no amount of squealing is going to change that. Mobile SAMs have limited coverage and if you spread them thin, you lose the advantage. If you like I can call in our professionals to give their opinion. @Signalian @Thorough Pro @DESERT FIGHTER

Now, here is where I am drawing the line. Don't make personal attacks. This is your last warning.

 

[Vanamali]

Tiny dick, no balls what use are Indians in this state?

Your entire world run around dick and balls, half of humanity doesnt have it, now grow up...

 

[Hellfire]

. Don't make personal attacks. This is your last warning.

Stop making an issue of non-issue. Personal attack?
Ah, the logic of typical Pakistanis like you, who will try to gain advantage with 'personal attack', 'offending our religion' etc etc @Dubious Tagging you here. Keep a track.

The Citation I have given , suggest speak to your people who matter. They will know precisely who I have quoted

Pehele decide karlo, cold start hai ya nahin!

Your typical types logic:

1. India has Cold Start - they will launch attacks without mobilizing the strike corps.
2. We have NASR

and coup de grace:

3. We will have Gunships and UCAVs to cherry pick the formations

4. PAC does so an so. Arre time aur paisa to lagta hi nahin, wish kiya subah tayyaar?

If Cold Start is there, you will be facing an attacking force ... and what do you think goes into that?

Man you are a laugh

Here, your last warning. Am impressed:

Cheers

@MilSpec @Nilgiri @Sam. @Dash @nair @Joe Shearer don't miss this one ... not interacted with him earlier.

 

[CriticalThought]

Stop making an issue of non-issue. Personal attack?

The Citation I have given , suggest speak to your people who matter. They will know precisely who I have quoted

Pehele decide karlo, cold start hai ya nahin!

Your typical types logic:

1. India has Cold Start - they will launch attacks without mobilizing the strike corps.
2. We have NASR

and coup de grace:

3. We will have Gunships and UCAVs to cherry pick the formations

4. PAC does so an so. Arre time aur paisa to lagta hi nahin, wish kiya subah tayyaar?

If Cold Start is there, you will be facing an attacking force ... and what do you think goes into that?

Man you are a laugh

Here, your last warning. Am impressed:

View attachment 521587

Cheers

The citation limits itself to armor and I likewise limited my response. It was always implied that Pakistan has much more than merely UCAVs and helis, but now that you have lost the armored battle, you must invoke your entire attacking corps. And rest assured, all elements are likewise accounted for.

By the way, reality check. Do you understand why your airforce keeps making excuses of number of squadrons instead of conducting a surgical strike? Ask @Windjammer your flankers keep turning tail as soon as they encounter the Shaheens. So much for economic power.