A Race Pakistan Cannot Possibly Win

[My-Analogous]

We have already won the race in several sectors n are not behind by any means in others thanks to an increasingly incompitent enemy like India.

Pakistan
• Local jet manufacturing. We have had over a 100 inducted with expected conversion to aesa and the incoming lethal block 3. Going further we are well into a 5th gen program with off the shelf options like j 31 readily available. Transfer to tech in this regard is not an issue thanks to the luxury of Chinese bieng in our corner.
• In the tank arena we have inducted n advanced several blocks of alkhalid.
• Missle tech is way superior to India with induction of longer range CMs n MIRV tech.
• 2nd strike capability via babur SLCM, dont need long range submarine launched BMs as our enemy is just next door.
• MALE UAV local production in sight.
• Pakistani army composition,training, equipment and strategy is far superior to Indian army. The overgrown size of the Indian army hence has more negative pointers than positive.

India.
• Local jet program failed. Squadron strength declining. Pilot training n professionalism issues. No 5th gen local program in sight with no viable option for a tech transfer in this regard. IAF has to rely on over priced import options.
• Arjun tank a collosal failiure.
• Army professionalism, equipment and integration a huge issue.
• Behind in missle tech and num of nuclear weapons.
• No local manufacturing of MALe UAVs in sight.
• 2nd strike capability better than Pakistan but in an indoPak conflict scenario there is no edge due to short distance. Babur slcm will do the same job for us.

So again what race are we falling behind in?

1. Big mouth dear. We don't have big mouth Indian have.
2. Building castle in the sky
3. Sir Ji Kal strikes which even US satellites can't see.

And many more

 

[danger007]

I doubt it. Our track record of moderation is far far better than any comparable Indian forum and that is said with the utmost humbleness.
It is the reason Indians flock here and now dare spread hatred and troll here due to our attempts to treat everyone at the same level.

Better than ? A mod wants to ban every Indian in this forum... enough to understand about normal members ...

 

[SQ8]

Better than ? A mod wants to ban every Indian in this forum... enough to understand about normal members ...

Now I do - don’t be a smart alec ans ignore the attitude of the last ten years.

 

[danger007]

1. Big mouth dear. We don't have big mouth Indian have.
2. Building castle in the sky
3. Sir Ji Kal strikes which even US satellites can't see.

And many more

You already proved your self.. NVM.

 

[Kharral]

What is the meaning of 'crawl' in this context?

Attrition

 

[Raider 21]

The completion of the first deterrence patrol by INS Arihant, India’s first home-developed, nuclear-powered submarine, completing the nuclear deterrence triad, procurement of the S400 missile systems from Russia and the induction of new heavy-calibre guns for the artillery are changing the balance of power in the subcontinent. There was immense criticism by Pakistan in every forum, including international gatherings, when India signed the S 400 missile deal.

They projected the shifting of balance of power in India’s favour leading to increased security concerns. Pakistan sought to suggest that the entire subcontinent was being impacted by security concerns. This was ignored by South Asian nations and the world community as they realised that apart from Pakistan, India has no adversary in South Asia.

Similar criticism flowed when INS Arihant was inducted into the service. The Pakistan foreign ministry spokesperson stated, “This development marks the first actual deployment of ready-to-fire nuclear warheads in South Asia. This is a matter of concern not only for the Indian Ocean littoral states but also for the international community at large.” In each case it projected its desire for peace as also its preparedness for war.

Pakistan has yet to comment on the induction of new artillery guns, which could change the equation in conventional operations as also crossborder violations. It permits the Indian army to strike deep into Pak territory hitting administrative bases and terrorist camps, which earlier could only be targeted by cross-border strikes as employing rockets or air power could add to escalation. The comment is likely to flow in the coming days, when these guns begin being deployed.

While Indian military power is aimed at deterrence from China, it is Pakistan which is panicking. The Pakistani armed forces are aware of India’s growing military might for conventional warfare as also its growing nuclear deterrence capability. However, their financial constraints have compelled them to counter the same by claiming deployment of tactical nuclear missiles. Their international standing has dropped to the level that assistance from all allies, including the US, has dried up forcing them to look at only China for support.

China is a ready provider for multiple reasons. Firstly, it must keep the Pakistan army in good humour. It is aware that its investments in the CPEC are secure provided it has the backing of the Pakistan army. Simultaneously, it cannot announce its true expenditure in the CPEC to the world as the Pakistani army has skimmed a part of the funds, almost terming it as a bribe for ensuring its continuity. Any action by Pakistan to limit the expansion of the CPEC would impact the power of Xi Jinping, as this project is the key to the Belt Road Initiative (BRI), which covers large parts of the globe.

Secondly, enhancing the military power of Pakistan would impact Indian defence expenditure as also its concentration of forces. As a result of Chinese support, diplomatic and military, India has always been forced to consider a two-front war. It has also provided Pakistan the confidence to continue pushing militants into Kashmir, keeping it destabilised.

As India restructures and modernizes its armed forces, it pushes Pakistan into a corner. Pakistan cannot bank on its so-called tactical nuclear weapons, as international pressure and swift Indian strikes may preclude their employment even within their own territory. The only option which it has is to run to the Chinese for near similar capabilities. Since it lacks financial stability including the ability to repay earlier loans, it may not get blanket Chinese support.

Pakistan is now moving towards the IMF for a bailout package, despite assistance already provided by Saudi Arabia and likely to be provided by China. The delay in China providing financial assistance is that it is bound to seek its pound of flesh, mainly ensuring the security and continuity of CPEC, where it has invested heavily. The IMF is bound to impose its own terms, some of which would be crippling and disadvantageous for the army including cutting down its defence expenditure.

The IMF terms would not be for a short duration but lengthy enough to pinch Pakistan. By curtailing the defence budget, it would restrict the ability of Pakistan to make new purchases to meet Indian capability expansion, adding to the growing gap. It could bank on Chinese largesse but the same would not be enough as repayment ability would be low.

The Pakistani army, which cannot be seen to be considered weaker as India continues to enhance military power, would be compelled to divert funds from other sources to meet its needs, seeking to hide these investments. These funds would impact social security services in Pakistan adding to problems of its population. While the ISI has complete control over the country and there are no voices which can criticise the actions of the army, internal rumblings against the government would rise.

One of the reasons for the collapse of the Soviet Union was it being pushed into an arms race with the US. It had to continue enhancing its military capabilities to ensure NATO remained at bay. It was forced into doing so, despite a vast gap in the economic status of the two countries. Thus, the arms race was unsustainable and broke the economy of the Soviet Union.

The Pakistan army has suffered in every war with India, hence is always concerned about Indian military power. It can never accept the fact that it can never compete militarily with India. The gap between the economies of India and Pak is similarly wide. Pushing Pakistan into an arms race, by continuing to enhance Indian military power may have a similar result as the breakup of the Soviet Union.


https://www.thestatesman.com/opinion/race-pakistan-cannot-win-1502709548.html

If the Indian government has the right to criticise when Pakistani government orders third hand F-16s, then Pakistan has every right to criticise anything that threatens their existence and borders.

ISI does not have complete control over the country, yet they are one of the most powerful military agencies in the country. Without them, Pakistan would have no longer existed.

The Indian military has suffered in all the wars they have fought against Pakistan. Their losses may be more or less, yet they have felt the brunt of the effects of going to war.

CPEC greatly benefits Pakistan, but unfortunately in the long term if not utilised properly, the Chinese government would have more than just leverage over the country.

From this entire article, it can be greatly seen that the current Indian government cannot see a Pakistan where relations can be formed. Both countries need to look past their vices, and behave responsibly generally for the benefit of their respective peoples.

Just my opinion as I could be wrong, with all due respect to Indians and Pakistanis.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Arihant adds nothing.

instead of writing these meaningless comments perhaps have u ever though abt involving China into this? Since S400 and others like this Akula sub will threaten the Chinese interests in Pakistan ie CPEC and the safety and security of Chinese nationals in Pakistan who work on these projects. If india put one battery of S400 in IOK it can effectively block the northern airspace of Pakistan and hence the CPEC infrastructure can be destroyed!!!!!

China has great financial and trade leverage over Russia, make them use that to stop Russians and put some sense into their silly heads! Make them stop Russians from selling india S400 and any possible future lethal technology and weapons sales.

Oh BTW has anybody in Russia's strategic community ever considered the possibility of NATO/America and Israel getting their hands on these indian S400 to learn abt its workings and analysis its secrets in terms of its strengths and weaknesses and develop an effective strategy to counter it?

Pasha sahab! think, and think on the right arguments and base yr diplomatic response around those right and though provoking arguments!

 

[Flash_Ninja]

We ain't running from country to country asking to be bailed out though.

So apparently economic policies is now equivalent to a culturally deeprooted inferiority complex, thank you for this genius enlightenment

 

[Hephaestus]

So apparently economic policies is now equivalent to a culturally deeprooted inferiority complex, thank you for this genius enlightenment

Culturally deeprooted superiority complex on the other hand fed to some since birth crumble in the face of repeated economic & social failures.

instead of writing these meaningless comments perhaps have u ever though abt involving China into this? Since S400 and others like this Akula sub will threaten the Chinese interests in Pakistan ie CPEC and the safety and security of Chinese nationals in Pakistan who work on these projects. If india put one battery of S400 in IOK it can effectively block the northern airspace of Pakistan and hence the CPEC infrastructure can be destroyed!!!!!

China has great financial and trade leverage over Russia, make them use that to stop Russians and put some sense into their silly heads! Make them stop Russians from selling india S400 and any possible future lethal technology and weapons sales.

Oh BTW has anybody in Russia's strategic community ever considered the possibility of NATO/America and Israel getting their hands on these indian S400 to learn abt its workings and analysis its secrets in terms of its strengths and weaknesses and develop an effective strategy to counter it?

Pasha sahab! think, and think on the right arguments and base yr diplomatic response around those right and though provoking arguments!

Yawn!

 

[Kompromat]

SSBNs are designed to threaten cross continental adversaries.

If Arihant nukes Karachi, the entire Indian state of Gujarat will perish due to radioactivity because its right next door.

India can't nuke us without killing itself because of geography.

Imagine if the US nuked Canada or Mexico.

instead of writing these meaningless comments perhaps have u ever though abt involving China into this? Since S400 and others like this Akula sub will threaten the Chinese interests in Pakistan ie CPEC and the safety and security of Chinese nationals in Pakistan who work on these projects. If india put one battery of S400 in IOK it can effectively block the northern airspace of Pakistan and hence the CPEC infrastructure can be destroyed!!!!!

China has great financial and trade leverage over Russia, make them use that to stop Russians and put some sense into their silly heads! Make them stop Russians from selling india S400 and any possible future lethal technology and weapons sales.

Oh BTW has anybody in Russia's strategic community ever considered the possibility of NATO/America and Israel getting their hands on these indian S400 to learn abt its workings and analysis its secrets in terms of its strengths and weaknesses and develop an effective strategy to counter it?

Pasha sahab! think, and think on the right arguments and base yr diplomatic response around those right and though provoking arguments!

 

[Mugwop]

The reality is that india is trying compete and win a race against China,while Pakistan is working on it's defence only.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

SSBNs are designed to threaten cross continental adversaries.

If Arihant nukes Karachi, the entire Indian state of Gujarat will perish due to radioactivity because its right next door.

India can't nuke us without killing itself because of geography.

Imagine if the US nuked Canada or Mexico.

Read my post again, and read full post this time.......yr again not thinking in right direction. We cant just 'wait' to first nuke us and see its effects on their 'gujrat'.....I want us and only us to nuke them if it comes to it and they not be able to respond......And this S400 take the game to another level, And dont buy much into that Gen Kidwai;s statement etc etc.......nor on these weak analysis based on mere warfighting scenario that GVS is writing.......Be real and be proactive. If we cant reach the level of India, we must stop them from reaching those standards.

China has great financial and trade leverage over Russia use it to stop them! CPEC and Chinese Citizens working on it in Pakistan are our trump card.

 

[My-Analogous]

You already proved your self.. NVM.

No body beats you

 

[Flash_Ninja]

Culturally deeprooted superiority complex on the other hand fed to some since birth crumble in the face of repeated economic & social failures.

Yes that's also a very accurate description of your people

 

[thinkingcap81]

The reality is that india is trying compete and win a race against China,while Pakistan is working on it's defence only.

That race cannot be won given the current trajectories of both nations. I also doubt that we are trying to win against China - at least this aspect does not seem to have sunk into our national consciousness right now.

SSBNs are designed to threaten cross continental adversaries.

If Arihant nukes Karachi, the entire Indian state of Gujarat will perish due to radioactivity because its right next door.

India can't nuke us without killing itself because of geography.

Imagine if the US nuked Canada or Mexico.

We can try miniature nukes a la Pakistan with the goal that only a teeny-weeny part of Karachi will be affected.

The only situation when we may use any nuke is if you nuke us.

We are a very responsible power. Inspite of grave provocations from you we will just use a micro-nuke to let the world know how much our restraint is.

Just a lil nuke.

This will increase India's stature enormously and we will gain the respect of the world.