A question to all Indian members regarding Indo-Pak water teaty

[Mian H Amin.]

And not a single violation so far.

You are so used to complaining that you start in advance of any event nowadays.

Losers.

And don't call us endians or you will be reported.

thats what you think, world and i dont agree with you.
so indians are probably living in some fantasy land you think. so wake come and start living in slum india cuz there isnt any incredible india. and stop being a crying baby...!!

 

[Lipizzaner_Stallion]

thats what you think, world and i dont agree with you.
so indians are probably living in some fantasy land you think. so wake come and start living in slum india cuz there isnt any incredible india. and stop being a crying baby...!!

Mian sahab ... I was expecting much better from you. Try again.

 

[INDIC]

thats what you think, world and i dont agree with you.
so indians are probably living in some fantasy land you think. so wake come and start living in slum india cuz there isnt any incredible india. and stop being a crying baby...!!

Pakistanis talking about slums in India.

 

[Mian H Amin.]

Mian sahab ... I was expecting much better from you. Try again.

stop expecting stuff.. it leads to disappointment ...

 

[Joe Shearer]

stop expecting stuff.. it leads to disappointment ...

Err...yes.

When did you figure that out?

 

[Mian H Amin.]

Err...yes.

When did you figure that out?

by watching you getting disappointed...

 

[Pfpilot]

This topic blows my mind. To have the audacity to claim India should sentence millions of Pakistanis to pain and suffering from a perpetual drought requires a level of arrogance seldom seen even on this forum. All this to rectify a problem that is wholly a domestic issue and has no connection to Pakistan. An issue that can be solved with good governance and a crackdown on corruption.

Topics like this do far more to damage Pak-Indo relations on the grass roots level than what any government official can claim. I am relieved that other Indian posters found the idea just as deplorable. But it makes one wonder, what causes a person to think of other humans as lesser beings? Despite Pakistani and Indian differences, people find it far easier to relate on a personal level since all of us face the same issues day in and day out. It doesn't matter where we come from, what we look like and where we believe we'll go...in the end we are all the same. Then this guy comes along and drops an atomic bomb on this neatly constructed viewpoint I have always maintained about the wider world.

Generally, the answers to domestic problems, are found within the local fabric of society. Shifting blame for genuine failures in the Indian establishment on outside forces hurts no one other than Indians. The sooner one is willing to search for the underlying problem, the sooner a satisfactory solution can be developed. Otherwise, India could horde all the fresh water on this planet. But if the system remains broken, rest assured the water will run out again.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

This topic blows my mind. To have the audacity to claim India should sentence millions of Pakistanis to pain and suffering from a perpetual drought requires a level of arrogance seldom seen even on this forum. All this to rectify a problem that is wholly a domestic issue and has no connection to Pakistan. An issue that can be solved with good governance and a crackdown on corruption.

Topics like this do far more to damage Pak-Indo relations on the grass roots level than what any government official can claim. I am relieved that other Indian posters found the idea just as deplorable. But it makes one wonder, what causes a person to think of other humans as lesser beings? Despite Pakistani and Indian differences, people find it far easier to relate on a personal level since all of us face the same issues day in and day out. It doesn't matter where we come from, what we look like and where we believe we'll go...in the end we are all the same. Then this guy comes along and drops an atomic bomb on this neatly constructed viewpoint I have always maintained about the wider world.

Generally, the answers to domestic problems, are found within the local fabric of society. Shifting blame for genuine failures in the Indian establishment on outside forces hurts no one other than Indians. The sooner one is willing to search for the underlying problem, the sooner a satisfactory solution can be developed. Otherwise, India could horde all the fresh water on this planet. But if the system remains broken, rest assured the water will run out again.

Had you followed the thread in entirety you would have realized the true intention of the OP was nothing but good 'ol trolling.

 

[Joe Shearer]

This topic blows my mind. To have the audacity to claim India should sentence millions of Pakistanis to pain and suffering from a perpetual drought requires a level of arrogance seldom seen even on this forum. All this to rectify a problem that is wholly a domestic issue and has no connection to Pakistan. An issue that can be solved with good governance and a crackdown on corruption.

Topics like this do far more to damage Pak-Indo relations on the grass roots level than what any government official can claim. I am relieved that other Indian posters found the idea just as deplorable. But it makes one wonder, what causes a person to think of other humans as lesser beings? Despite Pakistani and Indian differences, people find it far easier to relate on a personal level since all of us face the same issues day in and day out. It doesn't matter where we come from, what we look like and where we believe we'll go...in the end we are all the same. Then this guy comes along and drops an atomic bomb on this neatly constructed viewpoint I have always maintained about the wider world.

Generally, the answers to domestic problems, are found within the local fabric of society. Shifting blame for genuine failures in the Indian establishment on outside forces hurts no one other than Indians. The sooner one is willing to search for the underlying problem, the sooner a satisfactory solution can be developed. Otherwise, India could horde all the fresh water on this planet. But if the system remains broken, rest assured the water will run out again.

I respect your post and totally agree with it. You have already observed that the overwhelming majority of Indians found the basic proposition an outrage, and made their disagreement evident. The passive response of other Indians to my first post should make the general contempt and abhorrence for this inhuman idea very clear.

Just to set the perspective right, there is a lunatic fringe within every single nation that looks on these issues in the light of a demented world-view, a perverted way of looking at things bounded entirely by what is seen to be self-interest, but actually represents a degrading hatred of other human beings, either because they belong to another nation, or another ethnicity, or religion, or religious sect, or linguistic group, or is different in some characteristic that seems important to the viewer. Without making any odious effort at looking for parallels, let me just make the point that this perversion is not confined to any one nation. Any country from the muster roll of the membership of the UN may be substituted for 'Indian', and your very just indignation will remain valid.

An afterthought: it then behoves sane people from all sides, like your good self, for instance, to unite and suppress the lunatics.

 

[Pfpilot]

I respect your post and totally agree with it. You have already observed that the overwhelming majority of Indians found the basic proposition an outrage, and made their disagreement evident. The passive response of other Indians to my first post should make the general contempt and abhorrence for this inhuman idea very clear.

Just to set the perspective right, there is a lunatic fringe within every single nation that looks on these issues in the light of a demented world-view, a perverted way of looking at things bounded entirely by what is seen to be self-interest, but actually represents a degrading hatred of other human beings, either because they belong to another nation, or another ethnicity, or religion, or religious sect, or linguistic group, or is different in some characteristic that seems important to the viewer. Without making any odious effort at looking for parallels, let me just make the point that this perversion is not confined to any one nation. Any country from the muster roll of the membership of the UN may be substituted for 'Indian', and your very just indignation will remain valid.

An afterthought: it then behoves sane people from all sides, like your good self, for instance, to unite and suppress the lunatics.

I believe you made a point that is very important and I completely overlooked it in my haste to protest. In doing so, I may have opened up the fragile Pak-Indo relationship to the kind of ridicule I was standing up against. This is not an Indian issue, I cannot emphasize this enough. India is relevant to this issue simply because the thread starter was commenting on an Indian problem; were this another nation, it would have been equally pathetic an idea. I have a hard time stereotyping a nation or it's people into one convenient mold. I know my fellow Pakistanis don't often agree with my inability to dislike Indians. I cannot like dislike Indians in the same way I cannot dislike Pakistanis or any other human beings. There have been wrongs committed by both sides and it leaves everyone equally guilty and in a twisted way, equally innocent as far as I am concerned.

What I said in my initial post applies equally to Pakistanis. Unfortunately, our personal bias limits our ability to perceive the world from anything but a very nationalistic lens. Often, I don't react in the same manner when Indians are faced with a similar topic, simply because I fail to grasp how it might offend them. I say this with a great amount of shame, but an insult conveniently only seems like an insult when it is directed towards Pakistan. The same insult towards another nation is exceedingly easy to brush off as irrelevant or unimportant. This is why this forum is such an important platform. For the ignorant and arrogant, or the plain uninformed, we all have an opportunity to understand the viewpoint of those we consider our polar opposites. We are all programmed to think of our nations as mutually exclusive and this forum provides us an opportunity to see the inherent similarities between us all. Peace will only come when there is understanding. Though I fear, topics like these from both sides of the border create a barrier that is exponentially harder to breakdown, then it is to form. After all, confirming a stereotype is far easier than moving past one.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I believe you made a point that is very important and I completely overlooked it in my haste to protest. In doing so, I may have opened up the fragile Pak-Indo relationship to the kind of ridicule I was standing up against. This is not an Indian issue, I cannot emphasize this enough. India is relevant to this issue simply because the thread starter was commenting on an Indian problem; were this another nation, it would have been equally pathetic an idea. I have a hard time stereotyping a nation or it's people into one convenient mold. I know my fellow Pakistanis don't often agree with my inability to dislike Indians. I cannot like dislike Indians in the same way I cannot dislike Pakistanis or any other human beings. There have been wrongs committed by both sides and it leaves everyone equally guilty and in a twisted way, equally innocent as far as I am concerned.

What I said in my initial post applies equally to Pakistanis. Unfortunately, our personal bias limits our ability to perceive the world from anything but a very nationalistic lens. Often, I don't react in the same manner when Indians are faced with a similar topic, simply because I fail to grasp how it might offend them. I say this with a great amount of shame, but an insult conveniently only seems like an insult when it is directed towards Pakistan. The same insult towards another nation is exceedingly easy to brush off as irrelevant or unimportant. This is why this forum is such an important platform. For the ignorant and arrogant, or the plain uninformed, we all have an opportunity to understand the viewpoint of those we consider our polar opposites. We are all programmed to think of our nations as mutually exclusive and this forum provides us an opportunity to see the inherent similarities between us all. Peace will only come when there is understanding. Though I fear, topics like these from both sides of the border create a barrier that is exponentially harder to breakdown, then it is to form. After all, confirming a stereotype is far easier than moving past one.

NOBODY in his or her right mind would suspect you of bias. That was not the point of my post, which was intended to underline the common grounds in what you said and in what other decent people of various nationalities also said.

Your post above makes it clear that you speak from a position of moral clarity. No doubts about that, none.

 

[Pfpilot]

NOBODY in his or her right mind would suspect you of bias. That was not the point of my post, which was intended to underline the common grounds in what you said and in what other decent people of various nationalities also said.

Your post above makes it clear that you speak from a position of moral clarity. No doubts about that, none.

Of course, your point was completely correct. So I felt I owed it to the subject at hand to present a more personal example: that even those with the best of intentions don't always follow through as they expect others to. It would have been very intellectually dishonest of me to agree with your post, without also admitting that I sometimes fall short of that standard.

 

[Roybot]

Was the Indus Water treaty needed though? Do we have any other example of such a "generous" international water sharing agreement?

I mean what exactly did India achieve by voluntarily agreeing to such a treaty? What were our leaders hoping to achieve? Goodwill of Pakistanis ?

I am not saying India should have kept/ diverted all the water for itself, but I really don't see the point of signing such an agreement and self imposing these legal liabilities.

 

[Bang Galore]

This topic blows my mind. To have the audacity to claim India should sentence millions of Pakistanis to pain and suffering from a perpetual drought requires a level of arrogance seldom seen even on this forum. All this to rectify a problem that is wholly a domestic issue and has no connection to Pakistan. An issue that can be solved with good governance and a crackdown on corruption.

Topics like this do far more to damage Pak-Indo relations on the grass roots level than what any government official can claim. I am relieved that other Indian posters found the idea just as deplorable. But it makes one wonder, what causes a person to think of other humans as lesser beings? Despite Pakistani and Indian differences, people find it far easier to relate on a personal level since all of us face the same issues day in and day out. It doesn't matter where we come from, what we look like and where we believe we'll go...in the end we are all the same. Then this guy comes along and drops an atomic bomb on this neatly constructed viewpoint I have always maintained about the wider world.

Generally, the answers to domestic problems, are found within the local fabric of society. Shifting blame for genuine failures in the Indian establishment on outside forces hurts no one other than Indians. The sooner one is willing to search for the underlying problem, the sooner a satisfactory solution can be developed. Otherwise, India could horde all the fresh water on this planet. But if the system remains broken, rest assured the water will run out again.

Without disagreeing with anything you said, it must be pointed out that continuous Pakistani attacks on the water issue effectively calling India/Indians thieves & suggesting that there exists a dastardly plan to siphon off Pakistan's water & starve your people are equally unhelpful especially when you consider that this treaty is among the most generous ones ever agreed to by an upper riparian state. Add to that, the fact that Pakistan has pretty much lost every single case it has brought on this issue, yet continues to parrot the same inanities makes it necessary to be reminded that there are worse things that could happen with the water in question, especially an abrogation of the IWT and a new agreement based on international principles, something that will give Pakistan a lot less water.

No one is interested to starve your people. However a gentle reminder to them about the realities might not be too much of a bad thing.

 

[Vinod2070]

Without disagreeing with anything you said, it must be pointed out that continuous Pakistani attacks on the water issue effectively calling India/Indians thieves & suggesting that there exists a dastardly plan to siphon off Pakistan's water & starve your people are equally unhelpful especially when you consider that this treaty is among the most generous ones ever agreed to by an upper riparian state. Add to that, the fact that Pakistan has pretty much lost every single case it has brought on this issue, yet continues to parrot the same inanities makes it necessary to be reminded that there are worse things that could happen with the water in question, especially an abrogation of the IWT and a new agreement based on international principles, something that will give Pakistan a lot less water.

No one is interested to starve your people. However a gentle reminder to them about the realities might not be too much of a bad thing.

It is amazing actually that anyone should actually accuse us of having such thoughts.

Yet, there are genuine questions about whether we signed a fair treaty, what did we gain (except constant accusations of thievery!) and whether this is sustainable.

If Pakistan continues to try and prevent us from even utilizing the provisions of the treaty like dams that are run of the river etc., India may need to make a decision to abrogate the treaty. It will neither be the first, nor the last instance of a side quitting a treaty that it feels was not fair to it.

Pakistan needs to realize that the treaty was overly generous to it, with no parallel in the world. They should not take it for granted forever.

We should absolutely have a fair water division with our neighbors. We can't fulfill every irrational expectation that the neighbors may have of us.