A new economic system for the near-future

[Skull and Bones]

I support free education and healthcare, and government should emphasize on efficient zero carbon public transport.

Rest is just absurd.

 

[jamahir]

I support free education and healthcare, and government should emphasize on efficient zero carbon public transport.

Rest is just absurd.

Why ?

 

[Mentee]

Jamahir bhai vaara nahi khaata ------ doesn't seem feasible

 

[jamahir]

Jamahir bhai vaara nahi khaata ------ doesn't seem feasible

Why not ?

 

[Mentee]

Why not ?

Who gonna handover all his wealth to the state?

 

[Enigma SIG]

Lets boil it down to the basics:

Food

Everybody gets 2 slices of bread for breakfast.
For lunch, only 1 roti and lentils.
For dinner, roti and choice of vegetables.

Transport

Cycle with GPS. Travel using cycles; the more KM you accumulate the higher rewards you get for traveling by public transport; maybe call it Travel Credits.

Housing / Electricity

1 bedroom flats; you're limited to having only 1 kid with the government only paying for 50 units.

Education

Should be free till Secondary.

You're free to build a better life for yourself.

 

[jamahir]

Who gonna handover all his wealth to the state?

1. The "wealth" if in money form will not matter anyway since the surrounding economic system will have changed. You can read the OP again.

2. Privately-owned land, buildings and means of production will have been nationalized. Made a Commons. Supervised by committees on behalf of the people.

3. About "State", it won't be entirely a governance structure as we see in most of the world. It will be the people governing themselves directly through Direct Democracy guided by Leftist thought. This arrangement used to be in pre-2011 Libya and is present in Venezuela now despite the troubles there. About how it works please read this post.

Food

Everybody gets 2 slices of bread for breakfast.
For lunch, only 1 roti and lentils.
For dinner, roti and choice of vegetables.

Why the minimal diet ? Will there be some famine ?

The society I speak will have scientific, efficient and bountiful agriculture via computerized and mechanized Vertical Farms and general Urban Farms and any labor and maintenance required fulfilled through Collective Farming.

Add to this poultry ( chicken egg - two eggs for each person a day for free and if more eggs desired a day than they be paid for ).

Lab-grown meat which will remove need for cutting down trees and creating grassland and remove slaughter. Meat for humans a paid-for service. Cats will be taken care of by the system. I include cats here because I believe a harmonious human city will be one which will be a compromise between humans and cats.

Transport

Cycle with GPS. Travel using cycles; the more KM you accumulate the higher rewards you get for traveling by public transport; maybe call it Travel Credits.

Good idea. I had read a sci-fi book called Titan by Ben Bova where there is a massive colony spacecraft that has villages that can be traveled using bicycles.

Housing / Electricity

1 bedroom flats; you're limited to having only 1 kid with the government only paying for 50 units.

I agree about the one kid part but we can live more comfortable than in one room. Imagine a neighborhood built on the lines of the American suburbs but smaller housing units than the below :

Education

Should be free till Secondary.

You're free to build a better life for yourself.

Why not free education fully ?

we can go to your thread if you want

Moved discussion to this thread.

Will free capitalism in SEZ+ social welfare in rest of the state-model work?

Why do you want free capitalism in SEZ ? How would it be more beneficial ?

 

[jamahir]

Nice proposal.
Let me add the following:

Coming back to fundamentalist Marxist doctrine, wealth distribution was based on ownership of the "means of production ".
The concept of "Surplus Value":
Surplus Value is excessive cost of an object beyond what is its actual cost :
Let us take the famous case of the carpenters working in workshop that is owned by another person :
Accountants have worked out the cost of carpenters wages ( inclusive of tools, power, rental and maintenance of the property etc. ) at say Rs. 200 per hour ( of which the carpenters salary is Rs. 100 ), It takes three hours to make the chair which costs Rs. 600.
Adding taxes of Rs.30 ( 5%) the chair is sold in the market for Rs. 1000
Thus Rs. 370 is paid into the pocket of the owner of the workshop.
Assuming the owner is also working as a manager at the rate of Rs. 200 per hour, there is still a Surplus Value of Rs. 170 going to the owner simply because he owns the "means of production ". A school
buying 1000 chairs for children will be paying Rs. 170,000 more into the pocket of the owner, and the carpenter's son who needs an education, will be paying higher fees to a school that will need to cover the cost of chairs by charging higher fees. The cycle goes on for every thing, clothing, food, housing, power, medicines hospitals. By turning the "means of production " over to the workers, peasants, and miners the wealth gets distributed, taxes are held steady , and cost of living drastically comes down with social development and good utilities.
This actually happened in Russia in the first socialist experiment in the 1920s which is why the Soviet Union rapidly transformed from a 90% illiterate agricultural low technology peasant state , run by aristocrats, landlords, and extremely wealthy capitalists into a technological and industrial power house with a high degree of literacy. Russia ( Soviet Union) made up centuries of scientific and industrial backwardness a compared to the west . Dumping religion and freeing the people from exploitation by a corrupt clergy that fueled religious wars and hatred against minorities was a great step.

There were however unforeseen factors that later on caused the experiment to falter as we shall see in my next post. Meanwhile please comment on this one

I will need to read those figures for two or three more times.

 

[Enigma SIG]

1. The "wealth" if in money form will not matter anyway since the surrounding economic system will have changed. You can read the OP again.

2. Privately-owned land, buildings and means of production will have been nationalized. Made a Commons. Supervised by committees on behalf of the people.

3. About "State", it won't be entirely a governance structure as we see in most of the world. It will be the people governing themselves directly through Direct Democracy guided by Leftist thought. This arrangement used to be in pre-2011 Libya and is present in Venezuela now despite the troubles there. About how it works please read this post.



Why the minimal diet ? Will there be some famine ?

The society I speak will have scientific, efficient and bountiful agriculture via computerized and mechanized Vertical Farms and general Urban Farms and any labor and maintenance required fulfilled through Collective Farming.

Add to this poultry ( chicken egg - two eggs for each person a day for free and if more eggs desired a day than they be paid for ).

Lab-grown meat which will remove need for cutting down trees and creating grassland and remove slaughter. Meat for humans a paid-for service. Cats will be taken care of by the system. I include cats here because I believe a harmonious human city will be one which will be a compromise between humans and cats.



Good idea. I had read a sci-fi book called Titan by Ben Bova where there is a massive colony spacecraft that has villages that can be traveled using bicycles.



I agree about the one kid part but we can live more comfortable than in one room. Imagine a neighborhood built on the lines of the American suburbs but smaller housing units than the below :

Why not free education fully ?



Moved discussion to this thread.



Why do you want free capitalism in SEZ ? How would it be more beneficial ?

I was mentioning the bare minimum that the state would lend in support. People would be free to earn more and live a better life.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Why not ?

Inheritance is how 66 percent of the wealth is created Bro..even in developed countries......you don't know how eagerly many (most?) people in the West wait for their relatives to pass away without fuss

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

I support free education and healthcare, and government should emphasize on efficient zero carbon public transport.

Rest is just absurd.

I think farm subsidies take up huge amount of govt exchequer..to the tune of 60 Billion dollars per annum..if I am not mistaken

 

[Azadkashmir]

i think barter pay is good but ave 3 one is full pay, partial barter /pay, full barter pay.
sometimes getting paid in goods is a better deal. in some countries they get paid a dollar to make nike shoes that dollar cant buy a shoelaces but would be better if paid in shoes.

 

[ayodhyapati]

Jamahir bhai vaara nahi khaata ------ doesn't seem feasible

@jamahir sahib is diehard supporter of his ideology , i respect him , india is a place yoiu will find such great intellectuals .
but they don't stick to their ideology that is why they failed . india needs society propagated by him . even after being being a hinduwadi i support his kind of society . but they are not practical

 

[Skull and Bones]

I think farm subsidies take up huge amount of govt exchequer..to the tune of 60 Billion dollars per annum..if I am not mistaken

True, farming and distribution of produce should be liberalized.

 

[jamahir]

you don't know how eagerly many (most?) people in the West wait for their relatives to pass away without fuss

That's sad then. The artificial construct called money clouding people's kindness. I have read of incidents in "developed" Japan as well where people keep their parents' dead bodies in their house to keep claiming the pension of their parent.

i think barter pay is good but ave 3 one is full pay, partial barter /pay, full barter pay.
sometimes getting paid in goods is a better deal. in some countries they get paid a dollar to make nike shoes that dollar cant buy a shoelaces but would be better if paid in shoes.

I like your idea but first consider this :

I think barter was the original form of payment for services but over time it stopped in many societies because of impracticality : it is not always that some goods we have will be wanted by the person with whom we want to barter. Hence came money system where the money came in various forms : cowrie shells, precious mined / extracted materials ( pearl, ruby etc ).

Coming back your point, as a wider reference this Wikipedia page says that the USSR used to do barter deals with its ideological partners / friends. But there is nothing in my proposed system in the OP that can strictly prevent people within a country to do bartering if they find it convenient. Though please read the "Social Credits" thing in the OP.

True, farming and distribution of produce should be liberalized.

Can you elaborate that with reference to my post# 97 ?