A NEW AIRCRAFT FOR PAF

[surya kiran]

U.S does for Israel give a huge amount of military aid.

China does not provide aid, only loans.

 

[graphican]

great video but seriously very bad music does not sync with video!!

Watch it with no sound then.

 

[wasileo80]

advances in technology have nullified the impact of Thermopyle. In the modern era a well prepared force of 7000 soldiers will slaughter an army of 300 soldiers.

This is not even true in modern age. You can see thousands of examples in the modern world.
See Allied campaign in Afghanistan since 2001 where world's most advance forces cannot eliminate Talibans.

I was wondering how fast the discussion will cross nuclear threshold,Nasr is a huge disadvantage as its a small tactical nuclear weapon.
Indis does not posses that once fired upon us,we will be compel to retaliate and sorry we dont have small small nuke.
We will answer with our strategic nuclear weapon at your strategic location deep.

And as retaliation you will also receive big toys on indian soil too on your strategic locations your economy hubs and your military installations. It would be the destruction for mankind on this planet.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Us buying the Eurofighter is impossible.

Us buying the Eurofighter is impossible. The most advanced aircraft we can actually buy is the Su-35 or Gripen, depending on which you think is better.

I'm hoping for either the Su-35 or Gripen, but the J-10 seems like the most likely candidate.

Cost is not only Issue, Even to get such high price Eurofighter , we need approval from UK, Germany, Italy and Spain as this is multinational project. If any country declines due to indian lobby, then we can't get hands on eurofighters.
Our only option available is J10 C .
While Due to recent relation with U.S.A , it is very difficult to get griphen due to its U.S.A engine.

We can't get hands on above fighters unless we offer better price than face value and excellent relation with those countries.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Hello All
I said it many time before and I will say it again Money is not the Issue , Problem is availability and IAF threat (which Increased after Raffel).
PAF have few options we have to replace some very old birds (200 dam big number) and also we need to add more advance tech and number ,
For advance tech + number we got JF17 more advance and bigger blocks will help to achieve both , For replacing Mirages we have 2 options which are , (1)Buy Mirg2000s from middle east and upgrade them "this will be cheaper then having a new bird and will surly give PAF 15+ years of Very Good service.
2nd Option is to go for new bird which is of course (only available ) J10 , We can go for new upgrades in J10 have it with full TOT and give it a name like J10C , J10 again a delta wing , because its a new bird it will surly give us 40+ years of service , with advance tech and also with TOT we can have them in good numbers too.
For 4.5++ we can go for EFT and Su35 both are expensive , EFT is way more expensive then SU-35 , EFT will only be good if KSA have production line (as they once planed) that will make it easy for us , and if we play well on Diplomacy front we can have permission from all EFT owner countries , In case of Su-35 we only have to win Russia , supply of parts wont be a problem (china is there with there own ). We can buy them in different badges like 40 each for 4 years in 12 years we will have 120 of them , only thing to make sure , "There operational availability rate " that 12 years end at 2028 perfect time for TFX to join us (If the TFX program carry on).
Some say what about J31 , I always say the are extremely good to replace F16 (old ones first) , If possible PAF have to buy new F16 block 52+ (with ADD) it will be great if we have 25 more of them that will make 2 squadrons and 7 Extra birds , and with them we can add 60+ J31 (J31 will not cone before 2023 , if Pakistan and china provide Money to this project).

In very end for some of you this can sound as whish list or not possible , but for every technical way and from all money prospects it is possible , we have time like till 2030 for adding all of above , we have to start from small numbers and we can build up the numbers . And our economy will be in good shape in 2030(hope so)
And again for those whop said no money there , First its not your Problem , 2nd Money is already on the table for all of above the problem is you and your likes just cant see it.
Thank you all
@MastanKhan , @Tipu7 , @Windjammer

 

[YeBeWarned]

Excellent post. Read my response here as a "Yes, but.......

First, about directly blaming the Pakistan Army or the Pakistan State. No, no direct blame, but look at this:

• Until Pakistan became a key ally in the War on Terrorism, the US Secretary of State included Pakistan on the 1993 list of countries which repeatedly provide support for acts of international terrorism. In fact, many consider that Pakistan has been playing both sides in the fight against terror, on the one hand, pretending to help curtail terrorist activities while on the other, stoking it. Even the noted Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid has accused Pakistan's ISI of providing help to the Taliban, a statement echoed by many, including author Ted Galen Carpenter, who states that Pakistan has "assisted rebel forces in Kashmir even though those groups have committed terrorist acts against civilians".
• According to the author Daniel Byman, "Pakistan is probably today's most active sponsor of terrorism."writing in an article published by The Australian stated, "following the terror massacres in Mumbai, Pakistan may now be the single biggest state sponsor of terrorism, beyond even Iran, yet it has never been listed by the US State Department as a state sponsor of terrorism".
• Former Pakistan Ruler Pervez Musharraf has conceded that his forces trained militant groups to fight India in Indian-administered Kashmir. He confessed that the government ″turned a blind eye″ because it wanted to force India to enter negotiations besides raising the issue internationally. He also said Pakistani spies in the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate (ISI) cultivated the Taliban after 2001 because Karzai’s government was dominated by non-Pashtuns, the country’s largest ethnic group, and officials who were thought to favour India.

Ok , lets take it point by point ..

1- The US Secretary of State has genuinely have a very short memory, how come they forget that they have been singing lori to all those Mujahadeen Leaders in White house when its in their Interest , Why not Blame KSA , Israel for the same thing they blame Pakistan for ? Supporting Terrorism is just once prospectus , if i see it from a Former USSR Prospectus , than USA is the biggest Supporter of Terrorism ..
and lets not forget the words of US Future President Mrs Clinton .

2- So lets consider this in the Aspect of Prove shall we ?

3- I wont be Surprised if he Said so .. but what about Modi Accepting that they Support , Fund and Trained Mukti bani ? were they Freedom Fighters or terrorist ? if Terrorist than Indian as a State Support Terrorism since 71 long before the WoT started .. and if they were Freedom Fighters than why double Standards for Kashmiri People ?


P.S i think we shouldn't be discussing this here cause we will get thread banned

 

[Joe Shearer]

Ok , lets take it point by point ..

1- The US Secretary of State has genuinely have a very short memory, how come they forget that they have been singing lori to all those Mujahadeen Leaders in White house when its in their Interest , Why not Blame KSA , Israel for the same thing they blame Pakistan for ? Supporting Terrorism is just once prospectus , if i see it from a Former USSR Prospectus , than USA is the biggest Supporter of Terrorism ..
and lets not forget the words of US Future President Mrs Clinton .

2- So lets consider this in the Aspect of Prove shall we ?

3- I wont be Surprised if he Said so .. but what about Modi Accepting that they Support , Fund and Trained Mukti bani ? were they Freedom Fighters or terrorist ? if Terrorist than Indian as a State Support Terrorism since 71 long before the WoT started .. and if they were Freedom Fighters than why double Standards for Kashmiri People ?


P.S i think we shouldn't be discussing this here cause we will get thread banned

We can always discuss it offline. If you want.

 

[YeBeWarned]

We can always discuss it offline. If you want.

Sure Sir why not
i just don't want to go off topic cause i was preaching someone about not going off topics hhaha

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sure Sir why not
i just don't want to go off topic cause i was preaching someone about not going off topics hhaha

No, no, that is a painful bad habit. I agree, let's retire before we are retired. Keep an eye open, I'll be coming back to you. Or you can mail me an anonymous mail id to my id below.

 

[wiseone2]

This is not even true in modern age. You can see thousands of examples in the modern world.
See Allied campaign in Afghanistan since 2001 where world's most advance forces cannot eliminate Talibans.



And as retaliation you will also receive big toys on indian soil too on your strategic locations your economy hubs and your military installations. It would be the destruction for mankind on this planet.

the differential in technology between America and Taliban is huge.

Where does Pakistan have a technology advantage over India ? In the past Pakistan has enjoyed small differential in technology in selected areas. today it is all but disapppeared

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Cost is not only Issue, Even to get such high price Eurofighter , we need approval from UK, Germany, Italy and Spain as this is multinational project. If any country declines due to indian lobby, then we can't get hands on eurofighters.
Our only option available is J10 C .
While Due to recent relation with U.S.A , it is very difficult to get griphen due to its U.S.A engine.

We can't get hands on above fighters unless we offer better price than face value and excellent relation with those countries.

The issue with PAF is they are unable to make up their mind because of the fast evolving technological improvements in fifth gen aircraft. However this does not indicate that PAF should procure more 4th gen or higher aircraft to replace the 3rd gen aircraft currently operated by Pakistan.

Keeping the above in view one has to understand how to get these aircraft timely and cost effectively. Some mistakes were made by PAF but those are now part of history, hence move on. Lessons from the past teach PAF that always have multiple sources to procure weapons. In 1965 PAF only had USA as the main supplier and that came to haunt in the next conflict.

Today most of the PDF members are suggesting that PAF should only rely on the Chinese as a sole supplier. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. China is a very dear friend today but things can change. This is how International Politics work.

Options available to PAF:
USA -
1)New 16-block 50/52 provided PAF pays the full price.
2) Old F-16's with MLU Pack but these are not available.

France -
1) New Rafale - N (Naval versions) for Pakistan Navy
2) Old Mirage 2000 - 5/9... availability not clear.

Sweden -
Grippen New C/D with Euro Jet engines.

United Kingdom -
New Euro Fighter Typhoon Trench 2 and 3
Old EFT from Spain, Italy, UK and Austria.

Russia
Mig-35 New
SU-35 New
SU-34 New

Now lets critically evaluate these options.
F-16 blk 52's cost aprox the same as the Russian aircraft. Old F-16's with MLU are available till OBAMA is President, hence it is unlikely that PAF would be getting any more F-16's after that.

Rafale N for the navy is an option but if France allows Pakistan to develop a similar solutions for JF-17.

Grippen
Highly unlikely as it would force PAF to stop production of JF-17.

EFT
With Brixit UK loses 50billion USD hence requires to sell more stuff so it is a bargain. The Indians also realize this but they can not do much about it and are threatening to close the companies in UK and pull out all their investments.

Hello All
I said it many time before and I will say it again Money is not the Issue , Problem is availability and IAF threat (which Increased after Raffel).
PAF have few options we have to replace some very old birds (200 dam big number) and also we need to add more advance tech and number ,
For advance tech + number we got JF17 more advance and bigger blocks will help to achieve both , For replacing Mirages we have 2 options which are , (1)Buy Mirg2000s from middle east and upgrade them "this will be cheaper then having a new bird and will surly give PAF 15+ years of Very Good service.
2nd Option is to go for new bird which is of course (only available ) J10 , We can go for new upgrades in J10 have it with full TOT and give it a name like J10C , J10 again a delta wing , because its a new bird it will surly give us 40+ years of service , with advance tech and also with TOT we can have them in good numbers too.
For 4.5++ we can go for EFT and Su35 both are expensive , EFT is way more expensive then SU-35 , EFT will only be good if KSA have production line (as they once planed) that will make it easy for us , and if we play well on Diplomacy front we can have permission from all EFT owner countries , In case of Su-35 we only have to win Russia , supply of parts wont be a problem (china is there with there own ). We can buy them in different badges like 40 each for 4 years in 12 years we will have 120 of them , only thing to make sure , "There operational availability rate " that 12 years end at 2028 perfect time for TFX to join us (If the TFX program carry on).
Some say what about J31 , I always say the are extremely good to replace F16 (old ones first) , If possible PAF have to buy new F16 block 52+ (with ADD) it will be great if we have 25 more of them that will make 2 squadrons and 7 Extra birds , and with them we can add 60+ J31 (J31 will not cone before 2023 , if Pakistan and china provide Money to this project).

In very end for some of you this can sound as whish list or not possible , but for every technical way and from all money prospects it is possible , we have time like till 2030 for adding all of above , we have to start from small numbers and we can build up the numbers . And our economy will be in good shape in 2030(hope so)
And again for those whop said no money there , First its not your Problem , 2nd Money is already on the table for all of above the problem is you and your likes just cant see it.
Thank you all
@MastanKhan , @Tipu7 , @Windjammer

 

[his5850]

Rafale and SU-30's are advantage in IAF and they are in huge numbers i think pakistan got only few options

1)JF-17 block 4 which could be bigger but it will most probably only replace F-16

2)SU-35 as going on it is not difficult if Russia agrees Russia know india is not going any where with 200+Su-30 and investment in Sukhoi PAK FA it's going to stay Su-35 is a good option

3)J-10B or C could be one option if we don't want bigger JF-17 that could be the option to go on but i my opinion J-31 is going to be the choice if we buy a next plane from china There also roamers that pakistan is investing in J-31 program as for late date of production chine's official said they going to start the production of J-20 from late 2017 or early 2018 date of J-31 is also could change

The planes wich pakistan never going to buy is euro fighter and Saab JAS 39 Gripen too many problems

 

[jermankill]

can any one confirm that there any kind of talk btw British and Pakistan for typhoon....i saw on news that British have perform some air show of their fighter plane ?????

 

[MastanKhan]

No, no, that is a painful bad habit. I agree, let's retire before we are retired. Keep an eye open, I'll be coming back to you. Or you can mail me an anonymous mail id to my id below.

Joe,

Is this recruitment season

 

[WhyCry]

can any one confirm that there any kind of talk btw British and Pakistan for typhoon....i saw on news that British have perform some air show of their fighter plane ?????

The only talk that they can have is for the pakistans Bankrupcy and if they are will to bail them out.