A NEW AIRCRAFT FOR PAF

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Its not like u guys dont come to the indian defence page.

We have other important stuff to do other then being on Indian Defence pages...We do not like to just talk talk and talk without any constructive work and we are not that obsessed in regards to India as Indians are obsessed with Pakistan.

If you have something constructive to say in this thread then you are most welcome but if you only wish to act as a troll then please find some thing better.

F -22 ???

The day these are offered to Pakistan Indian would be speechless because they would think that they have been back stabbed by their best Friends (Israeli Lobby in USA.)

I totally agree Pakistan should have been given some F22's by USA because that would have compensated the Nuclear Deal with India and also taken Pakistan's economy down the drain...

Do you not think this would be a big win for the forces that are acting against Pakistan?

After getting this news i checked out the specs of both EF as well as Su 35 and to make the long story short the EF lacks SAR which means its ground attack role would be limited not to mention the fact that it also cannot be used in anti shipping role as well therefore my take is if you are looking for an air superiority platform then EF is the best choice otherwise go for Su 35

EFT was built as an air superiority fighter later on it was held that it should have limited ground strike capability. Trench 3 would be a swing role aircraft.

The information available on the internet regarding EFT trench 3 is very limited but we know that it is being financed by KSA so it is being heavily modified. KSA is also actively marketing it along with UK and Italy.

What is known so far is it would have an upgraded engine and CFT. The same engine is also being offered by Saab for its latest Gripen aircraft as an alternate to the US engine. Turkey is also considering this engine for the KFX project.

Possible Candidates ...........

Though Mirage 2000-9 is 2nd hand option, Rafale is too expensive.
Mig35 is most feasible but PAF is most interested in Su35 ..........

So lets see............

View attachment 311520

There are 4 candidates but it is highly likely that it would be Rafale N because it shares the same engine that JF-17B is using and the avionics suit that was being offered to PAF was also based on the same Rafale N's. IAF has so far not signed the final order of their Rafale C so even those could be offered for sale to Pakistan but that is highly unlikely.

Mig-35's is also using the same engines as the JF-17's and this has being suggested many times by our Indian friends because they know Mig-35's do not give any thing special in regards to technical knowledge like that offered by SU-35.

Both EFT and SU-35 would be a master stroke if they are chosen.
The Su-35 offers PAF stealth features and newer engines which open up all possibilities of Chinese origin as well as TFX could also be powered by this engine offing a market that is familiar with the Russian engines.

EFT would also give similar option provided China provides Pakistan with the knowledge of upgrading the Chinese aircraft structure and the work is carried out with Chinese getting the engines for reverse engineering.

Could be Sir it's a News by Someone I trust him

No I meant GCC paid those jets for Egypt plus ships and Heli carrier .i am talking about $$$$ here .

We trust your source...but still we can not be 100 percent sure till we actually hear some thing trough MOD or PAF.

i wish your trusted guy was right but i did not trust these things sir

Sir, it is true some time we have to wait a little longer for news that we already know off or we are assuming to be correct till it is finally disclosed by someone we trust or it is made public. In Pakistan even is news has been finalised it can still be denied and cancelled. we have hand many past instances were Pakistan was left dry by the US.

Yes we will, but the only European plane we can get is the Gripen.

If it comes with Euro Jet engine and has more leg then EFT or SU-35.

No. It would be SU-35s.

Note that Pakistan is moving away from US, EU & GCC and closer to China & Russia.

Both Russia and China operate SU-35s.

My friend you are assuming too much....
PAF is getting US equipment... more F-16's, MLU kits and even the new block 52 if PAF pays for them 100%.

PN is getting US made Global Cutters.

PAA is getting AH-1 Zulu.

Recently there was a deal with Italy to provide Pakistan with helicopters

If you still consider that Pakistan is getting away from USA and EU you are mistaken. If the Turkish ADA Class Corvettes are ordered they would definitely have EU manufactured stuff on board.

Now coming to the point where you said Pakistan is getting away from the GCC, here again you are wrong. Pakistan recently signed deals with Qatar and KSA for CNG and Oil. They also joined the Joint Arab Forces and are supplying weapons to all Member States.

The reason you are thinking that Pakistan is not longer the blueied boy of GCC is Pakistan did not enter the Yemen War. Let me inform you Pakistan is fighting a war with the Taliban hence it can not afford to enter into any other conflict but if they are still needed Pakistan still has enough capacity to send enough fighting force and continue to engage all partied that are trying to destabilise Pakistan
.

Can't pay and won't pay are two different things.

Very true... it is very difficult for some to comprehend the difference.

ooooh what is that?

It is called LADOO. These are traditional sweets that are served on various occasions of happiness.

The above picture and the picture that was posted earlier was showing Ladoo being prepared(Uncooked).

The picture below is of cooked ready to eat Ladoo.

The only other option is the Typhoon, which has been pitched to the PAF and has two reliable partners in the form of the UK and Italy, but then finances are questionable.
There is no way it's a Grippen, Sweden has refused in the past and Pakistan won't ask again. The SU-35 is an impossibility due to Indian pressure.

Nothing is impossible in todays world where money talks. However you are correct both Italy and UK are going through financial problems hence they would be interested in selling their EFT. UK has to pay Italy around 40 Billion USD if she leaves the EU so they are trying desperately to find solutions where the money is arraigned from other sources. A deal with PAF would probably be of around USD 4-5 billion which could be increased over the years.
After all PAF has to replace around 200 aircraft and PN is also trying to acquire 2 sqd of dedicated attack aircraft and other equipment like ATR's to replace the ageing F-27 MPA's.

Potentially a Chinese Flanker knockoff, if the source is to be believed. In that case meh! It just adds infrastructural problems with limited benefits. If it's an Typhoon, then it's a huge jump and will restore the quality balance in the region.

A PAF that operates 110 F-16s, 40 Typhoons and ~250 JF-17 supported by Erieye and Chinese AWACS is one hell of a nightmare for any Air Force.

Let see how things go...

the typhoon is possible but its a 10 year old's wish list and

they wont be ready till 2023 which is when pakistan will induct the 5th gen fighter so no need. remember oman ordered the typhoons in 2012 and are getting them in 2017 and that was when they needed orders and kuwait has ordered them recently so there is a backlog

May be we get some aircraft that Oman and Kuwait have ordered or some that KSA has ordered. May be KSA also requests a production line to be provided from where these orders can be delivered at a faster pace. By the way what is the production capabilities of EFT in Spain, German and Italy because they have taken all the deliveries of their aircraft. UK is still in the process of getting some more EFT's but that would also stop once the F-35s start entering.

Fifth generation jets will be a very small number and inducted slowly. The Typhoon will be just as important then. You're right about Oman.
Oh well, we will just have to wait and see. It would be great for us, if Pakistan does pick the jet.

Lets wait and see..

Its a win win situation isnt it.....purchase of Typhoons may open up other avenues of co operation like Aesa for thunders and who knows we may opt for EJ 200 for JF 17s to maintain engine commonality of our fleet

Please read above.

- Mirage 2000-9:
https://defence.pk/threads/open-deb...for-paf-aye-or-nay.293790/page-8#post-5150536

-Rafale is a non-starter because of India

-MiG-35- Same as above

-Su-35- Same as above


The EFT is probably the only non-Chinese/American MMRCA that the PAF could conceivebly get at this point.

Pls read above...Your Mahan Indian charms would not work every time...

That would be a masterstroke.

Indeed...

Also historically both UK & Italy have been closer to Pakistan.

Are you sure. UK was very confident in India hence sold most of its equipment but then India went after the Russia. This was indeed a very well planed strategy by UK to ask India to procure the best Russian equipment and then the British would acquire all the knowledge through the Indians.

The Indian lost many British aircraft in all their Wars and BBC was forced to air news that the British equipment had failed which was a very big shock to the British public. This indicated that the Indians were not true to what they have said and this was the reason slowly the British decided to sell their products to India.

The Italian were also providing many things to India but then the issues regarding the Marines, Blacklisting of their companies and then the issue with their Ambassador would definitely sour relations. All this is is due to India's doing that they are getting close to Pakistan.

Guess what Pakistan has after all gained 2 friends...where is the Indian impression Pakistan has no friends other than China....

Dam where are those people who were making fun of me all the time ???? Yes we are buying and most probably they are SU-35.

@Arsalan @waz

You were stating stuff far to early...

 

[Maj.Osmani]

Were you with him? Read us that story, while I go do more important things in life

I am with reality...cheers live in dreams good for you.

 

[Viper0011.]

I am with reality...cheers live in dreams good for you.

I've been on here for about 5 years I think. I've yet to post something that wasn't true!! Now if they end up buying 10 jets vs. 40 or 20, that's not my issue. I am just speaking about the reality of these discussions. Not how many they'll buy.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

$50BN in defence sales over the next 10 years could be $75BN in the following 10 years or $10BN depending on the Indo-Russian relations going foreward, there is a lot at stake for both sides and

The stakes are only decreasing with India only buying systems others are unwilling to give her or maintain its massive Arsenal of soviet/Russian inventory it already has.

frankly most nations will not put their relations with an emerging global giant for........Pakistan. Geopolitical realities will see to that.

And somehow Pak only of the worlds largest consumer markets and one of the next 11 isn't profession economically ? Nor will it come out of the crisis (which it already is coming out of)... Geopolitics already has propelled us forwards in the past aswell as the present .. You believe it or not doesn't matter..:
The same Russians who wouldn't sell even a rifle to Pak are today selling Gunships, offering SAMs and conducting joint military exercises with us apart from investing in steel mills and other infra not to forget encouraging us to join SCO.

Leaving all of this talk about abstract concepts such as geopolitics and "influence" to one side, the most rudimentary question is that of cost. If the PAF is unable/unwilling to pay full price for some F-16 Blk.52s, will they be willing to pay full price for some SU-35s? The Russians aren't going to offer any discounts or exotic financing options.

Sure sure .. Here is some news to you kid.. There is a difference between not willing and unable ..: meanwhile Pak is "unwillingly" to pay 420 mill ... It's buying Corvettes,sub upgrades and new gunships,new top tier service rifles .. Apart from other big ticket purchases ... So deal with it.

 

[dadeechi]

On the NSG thread @Talwar e Pakistan has implied that Pakistan is joining Turkey in the war.

If this is true then there are high chances that Pakistan is going to go for the Eurofighters instead of SU-35s.

Saudi Arabia may finance the deal too.

If Pakistan procures Eurofighter, Indian RAFALEs would be DOA.

 

[Blue Marlin]

in Typhoon

nothing more that a goodwill gesture. dont go looking to deep into it your head will hurt

 

[Muhammad Omar]

nothing more that a goodwill gesture. dont go looking to deep into it your head will hurt

i Know it was a good will gesture the Typhoon Gave him a good ride

 

[Ultima Thule]

so what?
you need to study a little, china and russia are running projects worth 100bn dollers. still russia sell arms to vietnam who has desputes with china, why?

Because India isn't China India is always cry to the world that not sell their topnotch weapons to Pakistan and your logic is inaccurate Mr, in the front of Chinese military might Vietnam military is nothing

 

[Blue Marlin]

i Know it was a good will gesture the Typhoon Gave him a good ride

and thats it. a good ride

 

[ziaulislam]

According to Haris Khan PDF PAF is buying 40 HighEnd Aircrafts very soon they not chines or Americans .PAF looking to used F16 via Jorden but these 40 r New and would be a third type .No J20 or J31 at this moment.

so we have Russians, Europeans options
when it comes to europeans we
this would mean atleast 7 billion dollars if its European typhoon, if its Gripen than its stupid.
unless having an arrangement with third country this is unrealistic

besides the above two, there is no thrid type of non chinese non american aircarft

Yes we will, but the only European plane we can get is the Gripen.

why get gripen, better to buy electronics for thunder from third party option , otherwise they are identical in size and performance

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Some of the stuff is strange. On a couple of Russian jets, he says they can "take down the Euro fighter before it can see the Russian jet". Which means the Russian jet in question is more advanced (he said this for SU-35, PAk-FA and on one more design). But then he gets to the EFT and says its the only fighter which has a chance to fight the F-22 (which means it is the most advanced one behind the F-22 in electronic warfare, but then, he had already put the EFT down in front of multiple Russian platforms). So it doesn't make sense as the speaker wasn't clear.

In terms of reality, the EFT, SU-35 and PAK-FA would be in the same class. Some slightly more stealthier than the other, but all of them behind Raptor's league.

If you closely listen to what he is saying when talking about the Mig-35 is that Mig-35 has certain features that make it a good electronic warfare aircraft. But then he says that it would be far more capable if a EFT kind of suit is procured. This would indicate that he is saying that though the Russian aircraft design is good it can be further improved by having a western systems and ew package.

SU-35 has sami stealth features hence it is harder for the EFT to pick up returns early. With a decent BVRAAM SU-35 can shoot down the EFT before than the other can even acquire a radar signature.

Same is the case for T-50 Pak Fa. The F-22 is not that good in close combat hence the EFT and Rafale along with F-15 , F-16 and F-18's all have kills attributed to them. Where as SU-35 and T- 50 PAK FA are both good in dog fight hence it would be difficult to acquire lock on.

If you remember the Indian claim of 14-0 against EFT with their Su-30MKI's which was rebutted as rubbish by RAF pilots.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I am with reality...cheers live in dreams good for you.

No you are not, you live in fairy tales

 

[Benign Persona]

Because India isn't China India is always cry to the world that not sell their topnotch weapons to Pakistan and your logic is inaccurate Mr, in the front of Chinese military might Vietnam military is nothing

have a good day dude.

 

[C130]

you wouldn't pay the full price for 8 F-16s for $700 million

but now you all think Pakistan is capable of buying 40 Eurofighter Typhoons that cost even more than the F-16 and then you would have to buy new missiles for it like Iris-T and Meteor, the $$$$ just keeps rising.


I had no idea Pakistan has gulf country money.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

you wouldn't pay the full price for 8 F-16s for $700 million

but now you all think Pakistan is capable of buying 40 Eurofighter Typhoons that cost even more than the F-16 and then you would have to buy new missiles for it like Iris-T and Meteor, the $$$$ just keeps rising.


I had no idea Pakistan has gulf country money.

Well f16 were over priced (hyped up price tag)