A Momin is not stung at the same place more than once But Hey We Are Pakistanis

[illusion8]

Because we have become too dependent on countries like the US and Saudi Arabia for our daily allowance.

It's not going to end well.

and, that it seems is the purpose of Irfan's thread as well.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

This is a bit different and your enemy has a hiding place in NW and they also spreading in other parts of the country, you have to destroy their breeding nest at the same time go after the smaller cells in other cities, and while destroying their caves in North Waziristan Army must claim the territory with boots on the ground. This is a complex situation and just doing targetted operation is not enough

this is altogether a different discussion about our resolve and response as a state against those who have picked up arms against it.
I am talking about our recent foreign policy and our U turn regarding Middle East despite 2 glaringly obvious facts


we are arming and supporting FSA which has partners like Al Qaeda & TTP
the TTP will come back and might bring the weapons with them provided by the Saudis

I don't get it...why does Pakistan find the need to get involved into conflicts? - especially where it doesn't concern them. Involvement in Afghanistan could at least be justified as it being its neighbor. But Syria?

Nawaz has to pay his debt and its the Imperial directive from Riyadh.
our leadership lives on charities and Saudis have a lot of leverage over Pakistan whatever the government.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

It's not that. If Pakistan does not support this revolution, they're not simply going against the wishes of Saudi Arabia, they're going against the wishes of the United States. Not only do we live off the donations of these countries, the influence they have over the world will allow them to swiftly depose of anyone who goes against their authority.

USA has been in the back stage on this one actually so I would hold on to the US flag for now and burn it latter.
KSA and Israelis are the ones who are leading from the front on the war in Syria and specially Iran. some Western countries are waking up to the possible impact and this is why the American military personnel across the globe are voicing their opposition to joining this fight,.

they are saying they don't want to fly air cover for Al Qaeda butchers that form the part of FSA. USA and UK have gone in the background even behind Turkey who is acting as a willing host just like the Pakistan of the 80s Soviet Jihad. Israelis have conducted some airstrikes much to the praise and Allah o Akbars of FSA fighters and thats that..

this war is Saudi's pet and they are running the show and they need pawns and they dont have to look far and when the TTP will return and the war will end in Syria then we will pay and Saudis wont loose any sleep over it.

Asad regime cant be toppled without the direct involvement of Americans and that is not going to happen . Syrians still regarded us favourably but this will change for sure.

 

[illusion8]

we are arming and supporting FSA which has partners like Al Qaeda & TTP
the TTP will come back and might bring the weapons with them provided by the Saudis



Nawaz has to pay his debt and its the Imperial directive from Riyadh.
our leadership lives on charities and Saudis have a lot of leverage over Pakistan whatever the government.

Scant concern for Pakistan's well being showed by its leaders, do they figure out the aftermath - potential repercussions etc before jumping in?

 

[Cheetah786]

Scant concern for Pakistan's well being showed by its leaders, do they figure out the aftermath - potential repercussions etc before jumping in?

Most of these leaders and generals have residence and business in GCC they seems to think after shit hits the fan they will simply take a flight out of mess.

 

[illusion8]

Most of these leaders and generals have residence and business in GCC they seems to think after shit hits the fan they will simply take a flight out of mess.

What would they get out of it? a few billions? they get it in Pakistan anyways.

This Islamist activity in Syria doesn't seem to be a stand alone phenomena, it will spread to other countries, and each victory will give it more strength.

 

[Cheetah786]

What would they get out of it? a few billions? they get it in Pakistan anyways.

This Islamist activity in Syria doesn't seem to be a stand alone phenomena, it will spread to other countries, and each victory will give it more strength.

They have sold pakistan to the devil for few 1000 you think they care what happens to rest of the world.

 

[illusion8]

They have sold pakistan to the devil for few 1000 you think they care what happens to rest of the world.

I don't know where it's headed guys, @Cheetah786, @Irfan Baloch - any idea?

It just isn't about Assad and his regime, it's much more sinister with much more ramifications - but for whom?

 

[Darth Vader]

No Matter What happens Pakistan Must Not Get involved in Any other countries Problem If today Pakistan Give these monsters Weapon they Same Thing will be used for Pakistan in the future and others country will get more involved into Pakistan

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I don't know where it's headed guys, @Cheetah786, @Irfan Baloch - any idea?

It just isn't about Assad and his regime, it's much more sinister with much more ramifications - but for whom?

• for Israel and Saudis Syrian civil war is definitely against Asad regime which is the only Iranian Ally in the region
• why Israel? its because Iran & Syria support Shia milltiant Hazbullah, the only organisation that is still confronting Israel
• For Saudis its all about the culling of shias, eradicating them from the face of the earth & to achieve that seek them out around the world and overtly or covertly fund and support sectarian terrorists to kill them.
• as far as the Europe & America are concerned, its 2 things, one doing the bidding of KSA & Israel and secondly take out 1 of the two remaining regimes that have been allies of the former Soviet union and present Russian federation.
• USA and UK have systematically since the 2nd world war instigated conflicts or launched invasions against the countries, assassinated leaders in Africa, Latin America etc and toppled regimes that had the tilt towards Moscow.
• Al Qaeda, LeT, LeJ, TTP, FSA, Al Shahab, Al Mohajiroon actively seek out new grounds to kill Muslims, they are like a virus that look for a wound where they can kill all others who dont fit their Islamic definition.

So in Middle East you see strange and unusual bedfellows you got Israelis and Saudis leading the campaign to topple Syrian regime and then decimate Iran and to full fill that purpose they are not only willing to sideline their mutual disgust and hatred but also facilitate and feed the terrorist fiends that hate them both. Turkey is a shocking partner in this orgy who is offering its territory for training and a staging ground for the FSA fighters.. as usual the Saudis are safely away to face any immediate repercussions.

where will it lead to? its anyone's guess.. depends how much Russia/ China will react to prevent their last of the 2 allies from falling.


today Muslims form their opinion based on their sect (this statement makes me a non-Muslim though) so they take either Asad/ Iranian side or the Saudi/ Al qaeda side. for China and Russia its about staying relevant to the Middle East due to access to natural resources and the trade route.

for Pakistanis its a total loss situation and its problems will compound many fold when the TTP will be sent back by their current hosts. but as far as Nawaz league is concerned it cant care less. when our known cricket grounds will become Human slaughter houses run by the taliban then Nawaz league wont be here so they have taken this decision to bow to Saudi will. and if Pakistan drowns and pays so be it as they wont be there to face the reprisal..

I will like to quote
Madam De Pompadour a French mistress of Medieval time who said "Après nous le déluge" which roughly translates into something like the flood/ fall will happen after us

i.e. we will never have to see the day or pay for what we have done because we will be long gone (dead or left the place)..

same is the case with our political dynasties, their businesses, their children, their properties and their money is in Dubai/ Saudi Arabia and the West all they have to do is leave in their chartered flights when our the rot from our collective dead concious and vicious sectarian hatred will caught with us and make Pakistan into a collective version of Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan.

 

[illusion8]

• for Israel and Saudis Syrian civil war is definitely against Asad regime which is the only Iranian Ally in the region
• why Israel? its because Iran & Syria support Shia milltiant Hazbullah, the only organisation that is still confronting Israel
• For Saudis its all about the culling of shias, eradicating them from the face of the earth & to achieve that seek them out around the world and overtly or covertly fund and support sectarian terrorists to kill them.
• as far as the Europe & America are concerned, its 2 things, one doing the bidding of KSA & Israel and secondly take out 1 of the two remaining regimes that have been allies of the former Soviet union and present Russian federation.
• USA and UK have systematically since the 2nd world war instigated conflicts or launched invasions against the countries, assassinated leaders in Africa, Latin America etc and toppled regimes that had the tilt towards Moscow.
• Al Qaeda, LeT, LeJ, TTP, FSA, Al Shahab, Al Mohajiroon actively seek out new grounds to kill Muslims, they are like a virus that look for a wound where they can kill all others who dont fit their Islamic definition.

So in Middle East you see strange and unusual bedfellows you got Israelis and Saudis leading the campaign to topple Syrian regime and then decimate Iran and to full fill that purpose they are not only willing to sideline their mutual disgust and hatred but also facilitate and feed the terrorist fiends that hate them both. Turkey is a shocking partner in this orgy who is offering its territory for training and a staging ground for the FSA fighters.. as usual the Saudis are safely away to face any immediate repercussions.

where will it lead to? its anyone's guess.. depends how much Russia/ China will react to prevent their last of the 2 allies from falling.


today Muslims form their opinion based on their sect (this statement makes me a non-Muslim though) so they take either Asad/ Iranian side or the Saudi/ Al qaeda side. for China and Russia its about staying relevant to the Middle East due to access to natural resources and the trade route.

for Pakistanis its a total loss situation and its problems will compound many fold when the TTP will be sent back by their current hosts. but as far as Nawaz league is concerned it cant care less. when our known cricket grounds will become Human slaughter houses run by the taliban then Nawaz league wont be here so they have taken this decision to bow to Saudi will. and if Pakistan drowns and pays so be it as they wont be there to face the reprisal..

I will like to quote
Madam De Pompadour a French mistress of Medieval time who said "Après nous le déluge" which roughly translates into something like the flood/ fall will happen after us

i.e. we will never have to see the day or pay for what we have done because we will be long gone (dead or left the place)..

same is the case with our political dynasties, their businesses, their children, their properties and their money is in Dubai/ Saudi Arabia and the West all they have to do is leave in their chartered flights when our the rot from our collective dead concious and vicious sectarian hatred will caught with us and make Pakistan into a collective version of Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan.

Excellent post Sir, wish I could thank it several times over. You have answered bulk of my doubts.

i.e. we will never have to see the day or pay for what we have done because we will be long gone (dead or left the place)..

Will it be ever possible to take out this multi headed hydra monster that is being created? I personally don't think so - until someone loses their mind and nukes the whole region - effectively wiping out the source.

 

[Armstrong]

Kamzoor ho muqabil tou faulad hai momin !

 

[Hiptullha]

It just isn't about Assad and his regime, it's much more sinister with much more ramifications - but for whom?

I've always believed that the conflict in the Middle East is due to the war which was taking place in the '60s - the Cold War. Even though the Soviet Union died, their officials lived on, and if we think about it, they still rule Russia. Putin? A former KGB officer who has retained for almost a decade.
The US has been trying to get rid of the influence the Soviets had gained in the Middle East.
Iraq, Syria, Libya were all under the rule of the Ba'ath parties, socialist, secular and promoted Pan-Arabism. These states were nationalist, whereas the Gulf was dominated by religious groups, who were less keen on the socialist policies of the Ba'athists. The US found it easier working with the Saudis and Qataris, who were friendlier towards them than the latter.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Will it be ever possible to take out this multi headed hydra monster that is being created? I personally don't think so - until someone loses their mind and nukes the whole region - effectively wiping out the source.

first you cut down and eradicate the active terrorists by force and then revamp the entire education system

lets look beyond the confines or Islam or even religion... a complete eradication of an ideology is impossible. you can defeat it weaken it but it can live through. its about the mindset of a human

forgive me for making a general statement but want to give you the hint what I mean . we got laws about paedophilia, ethical debate about genetic modification, then there are pro life and pro choice groups and then there are those who base their ideology about racial superiority or religion . the fall of Nazi Germany didnt eradicate the fascist Nazis (they have mutated into very different forms that are either covert or overt in the Western Europe). despite all the movies and studies and education showing people why racial and religious hatred is wrong and why having sex with little children is wrong but priests, Mullahs, politicians from east and went indulge into this nonetheless

even if the world unites and decides that killing the entire Muslim population from the world .. all one billion of them will solve this issue, then i will disagree because this kind which identifies itself as LeJ, TTP or Al Qaeda or Al Shahab etc.... has existed throughout time in the history and is a survivor it melds into the population and emerges again and again when opportunity presents itself. they would even drink liquor eat pork and wont do circumcision to stay hidden from the rest of the world and strike again in next 100 or 200 years when the world will put its guard down.

from Islamic point of view I have to quote something about this Hydra.. you are welcome to ignore it as I dont want to preach what our faith has got to say about them

Prophet Muhammad PBUH has prophesied about this group terming it as hounds of hell... saying that they will have long beards and will quote Quran but they will spill the blood of the innocent like water and they will live through the entire time although being defeated many times and they will eventually form the front troops of Antichrist.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Russia/ China will react to prevent their last of the 2 allies from falling

https://defence.pk/members/irfan-baloch.15272/
i agree with all of your points
https://defence.pk/members/irfan-baloch.15272/
but as chinese are planning to invest heavily in pakistan mostly in energy sector
cant they use this as a leverage to stop al sharif from fcuking syria up (the next level)