A Minister of PTI in touch with PMLN leadership for no confidence motion

[Tameem]

The second alternative isn't Nawaz coming back, he's been sidelined, he's too much of a trouble maker. But his brother has shown some real willingness to get back, I can't be sure how good his prospects are, but he's a contender in their books.

SS was return from London on the demand of Estbt. Itself.
His prospects are bright only if big Sharif and Maryam get on board and rejects their populist narrative first, Bcz all the vote bank on the streets are of NS and Maryam. Estbt cannot onboard a handicapped man in their planning and allow NS and Maryam a seat besides them as Big brother.

NS and Maryam not agreeing on it.

 

[Jungibaaz]

SS was return from London on the demand of Estbt. Itself.
His prospects are bright only if big Sharif and Maryam get on board and rejects their populist narrative first, Bcz all the vote bank on the streets are of NS and Maryam. Estbt cannot onboard a handicapped man in their planning and allow NS and Maryam a seat besides them as Big brother.

NS and Maryam not agreeing on it.

Agree. SS can't win anything without NS and Maryam, and the establishment won't accept the latter. Let's see what happens.

 

[Tameem]

Agree. SS can't win anything without NS and Maryam, and the establishment won't accept the latter. Let's see what happens.

So, basically Estbt is stuck at the moment.
They want to rotate PTI for long term preservance.
They want PMLN (SS) badly here to burden out them for the time being.
NS and Maryam allowing it to happens partially while keeping intact their populist narrative.
Estbt not agreeing on NS/Maryam to keep their populist narrative. They considers it their defeat.
NS and Maryam waiting it out.....!!!

On bottom of it there is complete mistrust between PMLN (NS/Maryam) and Establishment.

 

[jericho]

Although I’m one to point fingers at the army (establishment) interference more than most here. I think people are losing sight of how they operate politically and how they exert influence.

You need the stage set politically so awaam can accept a questionable political outcome? Easy, employ your goons in the media, you can even arm twist the judges, courts might fight you but if you have dirt on a judge to blackmail with, who needs institutional complicity? Etc.

In your opinion, how do incidents such as below happens?

"The Peshawar High Court (PHC) on Tuesday set aside the conviction of 200 terror suspects who were convicted by the military courts and ordered their release."
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/673829-phc-sets-aside-conviction-of-200-terror-suspects

 

[VCheng]

Wiser people than I have learnt that it's best to keep quiet, I'm not there yet.

You said it!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

In your opinion, how do incidents such as below happens?

"The Peshawar High Court (PHC) on Tuesday set aside the conviction of 200 terror suspects who were convicted by the military courts and ordered their release."
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/673829-phc-sets-aside-conviction-of-200-terror-suspects

It's not as straightforward as either side would make us believe.

The Fauj obviously has influence, but this whole business of 'hidden martial law' by definition means that the Fauj is reduced to leveraging its influence in a manner where it has to compete with our groups - businessmen, politicians, bureaucracy, judiciary etc.

An overt martial law means that the Fauj has no competition because no one else can match it when it comes to brute strength. The PTI government having to go back repeatedly to the SC and eventually pass an amendment to allow an extension to the COAS, the sentencing of Musharraf, the release of hundreds of individuals sentenced by military courts ... none of this would have occurred with an overt Martial law in place.

 

[jericho]

It's not as straightforward as either side would make us believe.

This.

none of this would have occurred with an overt Martial law in place.

Was Musharraf period an overt or hidden law? He faced difficulties too.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Was Musharraf period an overt or hidden law? He faced difficulties too.

More of a hybrid - a military dictator transitioning towards being an 'elected ruler' using elections that were widely considered rigged.

Musharraf was also a 'benevolent' dictator which in turn led to him losing power - he allowed private media to flourish and in conjunction with the rise of social media and a lack of desire to crackdown in the manner of many other autocratic regimes (Iranians, Saudis, Egyptians etc) there was little he could do to remain in power in a parliamentary political system with the myriad tribal, ethnic, religious etc dynamics at the local level. Of course, there were other factors too, such as the rise of TTP terrorism and media & Pakistani criticism of his support for the US WoT.

In many ways, one could point to Musharraf and his inability to stay in power as further supporting the argument that the current military establishment has significantly reduced leverage than it is credited for. As I said earlier, the military DOES have leverage and influence, but by functioning behind the scenes it has to compete with other power centers in Pakistan, which in itself is not a bad thing and over time the manner in which this influence is exercised will be further refined.

 

[jericho]

In many ways, one could point to Musharraf and his inability to stay in power as further supporting the argument that the current military establishment has significantly reduced leverage than it is credited for. As I said earlier, the military DOES have leverage and influence

Your assessment here is along the lines of what I also believe to be the case.

 

[Norwegian]

That is why Govt is avoiding Local Bodies Elections in Pakistan for quite sometime.

Local Body Elections are on non-party basis, Patwari.

We may actually see a PMLN and PPP coalition take over.

You must be smoking some real Bengali weed...

start working on building bridges and repairing relations with the opposition and other political actors to ensure their interests are protected

With protecting their interests you mean give NRO and clean chits on all corruption cases? Nice try.

Also what does PM mean when he says I am The Only Choice, choice for whom?

It means that he actually never said and you only believed that because you blindly follow social media trolls.

Bcz all the vote bank on the streets are of NS and Maryam.

Both NS and Maryam are disqualified to run in elections for years to come, patwari.

 

[El Sidd]

IK did not use the phrase "I am the only choice".

IK knows how to address the average Pakistani.

The contempt he shows for Pakistanis when he calls them the living dead and a dead nation compared to ghairatmand Bangladeshi and Afghans is well documented.

It means that he actually never said and you only believed that because you blindly follow social media trolls.

say hi to your Caliph as well in UK

 

[Norwegian]

The contempt he shows for Pakistanis when he calls them the living dead and a dead nation compared to ghairatmand Bangladeshi and Afghans is well documented.

say hi to your Caliph as well in UK

Bol is peddling fake news.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1277853750938517504

The contempt he shows for Pakistanis when he calls them the living dead and a dead nation compared to ghairatmand Bangladeshi and Afghans is well documented.

say hi to your Caliph as well in UK

https://twitter.com/x/status/1277855425472446465

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

With protecting their interests you mean give NRO and clean chits on all corruption cases? Nice try.

The judiciary is stacked with PPP & PMLN appointees and the PPP & PMLN politicians and supporters have deep enough pockets to ‘influence’ the judiciary or NAB without the help of the military.

 

[El Sidd]

Bol is peddling fake news.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1277853750938517504

https://twitter.com/x/status/1277855425472446465

It maybe your religious belief to see no evil in Niazi. It's not mine.

To each his own belief cause this fanaticism is beyond politics for you

Unfortunately for us none of this is concrete evidence of anything. Those who know and understand what he means when he says this. Or what Faisal Vawda means when he brings an army boot and displays it on a news table on TV. Or what Sheikh Rasheed means he says minus 3. Or when Fawad Chaudhry hints at a lack of civilian supremacy. We have no choice but to point to these things.

But for those who aren't convinced, they will quite logically and sanely dismiss our view as conjecture, and find some other convenient or plausible explanation.

Fascism?

SS was return from London on the demand of Estbt.

He was summoned because a large section of direct employee and beneficiaries of his empire would have used Covid as a weapon.

 

[Norwegian]

It maybe your religious belief to see no evil in Niazi. It's not mine.

Niazi is not an angel but pushing fake news against him is not gonna help your cause