A French General's open letter to Francois Hollande

[Armstrong]

Thanks,i knew something about the Corsicans being trouble makers but movements for Bretagne and Provence ?

Apparently they're confined to blowing up a bank here or planting a bomb there without much casualties or so says the Report. Evidently in the rest of Europe Left Wing and Right Wing terrorists along with Separatists are an issue too...religiously motivated terrorism doesn't really figure in that much though arrests in cases of religiously inspired terrorism are a big thing especially in France as they should be - Nip it in the bud !

Frankly I can't seem to figure this thing out; the more I read about it the more I start thinking whether fanatical Muslims really are as significant an issue as its made out because many of the Stats don't seem to indicate that or whether this is another one of those 'Us vs Them' comparatives that strike up every time we come across those who are 'different'. In the past this has probably ranged from the notion of the 'looming specter of Communism' on one hand to something much less political like the integration of the 'Roma' communities in Europe !

FLNC was disbanded. (was the most dangerous)
Some members,How they got these rocket launchers ? ahaha i don't know.

"Front de libération de la Bretagne",disbanded in ~2000.

Don't know about the Provence,but not a serious threat.

Apparently they carried out 58 attacks between them in 2013 despite being disbanded.

 

[Gabriel92]

Apparently they carried out 58 attacks between them in 2013 despite being disbanded.

If i'm not wrong,this group was dibanded in 2014.

 

[Armstrong]

If i'm not wrong,this group was dibanded in 2014.

Perhaps I don't really know; they haven't released a Report for 2015 yet plus the 2014 mentioned the formation of a new group along with a few other ones !

 

[flamer84]

Apparently they're confined to blowing up a bank here or planting a bomb there without much casualties or so says the Report. Evidently in the rest of Europe Left Wing and Right Wing terrorists along with Separatists are an issue too...religiously motivated terrorism doesn't really figure in that much though arrests in cases of religiously inspired terrorism are a big thing especially in France as they should be - Nip it in the bud !

Frankly I can't seem to figure this thing out; the more I read about it the more I start thinking whether fanatical Muslims really are as significant an issue as its made out because many of the Stats don't seem to indicate that or whether this is another one of those 'Us vs Them' comparatives that strike up every time we come across those who are 'different'. In the past this has probably ranged from the notion of the 'looming specter of Communism' on one hand to something much less political like the integration of the 'Roma' communities in Europe !

That's the trouble with statistics in Europe,whenever we raise our voices about something,they show us "their" statistics...."look,you're wrong",but then our natural question comes "but,but....why don't we see the Liberation Front of Provence/whatever killing people with AK's or blowing train stations killing hundreds in the process ?"

In the end it's about culture to,as De Gaulle said it:


« It's a very good thing that there are yellow French people, black French people and brown French people. It's a sign that France is open to all races and that it has a universal vocation. But on condition they stay a minority. If not, France wouldn't be France anymore. After all, we are an European people from white race, Greek and Latin culture, and Christian religion. Try to mix oil and vinegar together. Shake the bottle. After a while, they get separated again. The Arabs are the Arabs, the French are the French. Do you believe that the French nation is able to integrate ten million Muslims who shall be twenty million tomorrow and forty million the day after? If we integrated them, if all the Arabs and Berbers were considered French, how could we prevent them from moving to our home country where the standard of living is so much higher? My village wouldn't be named Colombey-les-Deux-Églises (Colombey of the Two Churches) anymore, but Colombey-les-Deux-Mosquées (Colombey of the Two Mosques)!"

 

[Armstrong]

That's the trouble with statistics in Europe,whenever we raise our voices about something,they show us "their" statistics...."look,you're wrong",but then our natural question comes "but,but....why don't we see the Liberation Front of Provence/whatever killing people with AK's or blowing train stations killing hundreds in the process ?"

Stats don't lie; they maybe open for different interpretations but I'd take arguments grounded in facts and figures over one in rhetoric any time.

Because we don't really see 'anyone' doing that; barring an aberration here and there every few years !

In the end it's about culture to,as De Gaulle said it:

« It's a very good thing that there are yellow French people, black French people and brown French people. It's a sign that France is open to all races and that it has a universal vocation. But on condition they stay a minority. If not, France wouldn't be France anymore. After all, we are an European people from white race, Greek and Latin culture, and Christian religion. Try to mix oil and vinegar together. Shake the bottle. After a while, they get separated again. The Arabs are the Arabs, the French are the French. Do you believe that the French nation is able to integrate ten million Muslims who shall be twenty million tomorrow and forty million the day after? If we integrated them, if all the Arabs and Berbers were considered French, how could we prevent them from moving to our home country where the standard of living is so much higher? My village wouldn't be named Colombey-les-Deux-Églises (Colombey of the Two Churches) anymore, but Colombey-les-Deux-Mosquées (Colombey of the Two Mosques)!"

Fair Enough but I suppose such misgivings ought to be expressed before allowing the said people to come to your countries then to make an issue out of it after the deed has been done and they've started a new life for themselves !

 

[AUz]

@flamer84 Lets not act like a typical right-winger.

"European soldiers getting beheaded in their own streets. Trains blowing up. Jihadis running around" ....lol, I mean, how much more propagandist you have to be?

There are millions of immigrants, non-white, Muslims in Europe. Out of all those, there are less than 20 major violent events.

So the probability of what you said happening is like 0.0000001% , and that too, over a period of ten years or something.

But you make it sound like as if Europe has been invaded by Mongols and Paris is about to fall...

C'mon man..what will all this hate-mongering give you?

Also, 94% of all violent attacks in Europe happened from non-Muslims. Why you don't focus on 94% of violence but are all bent on amplifying 6% violence to dehumanize millions of Europeans who just happens to be Muslims?

As I said, that's just straight up hate-mongering against a particular minority. Last time it were jews, today it is Muslims.

 

[flamer84]

Fair Enough but I suppose such misgivings ought to be expressed before allowing the said people to come to your countries then to make an issue out of it after the deed has been done and they've started a new life for themselves !

But they are ! Every God damn politician in Western Europe in the last 15 years came to power by promising to adress immigration issues and noone did it.There are no referendums to consult the people on what they want,the problem gets ignored every time when they get in power.

@flamer84 Lets not act like a typical right-winger.

"European soldiers getting beheaded in their own streets. Trains blowing up. Jihadis running around" ....lol, I mean, how much more propagandist you have to be?

There are millions of immigrants, non-white, Muslims in Europe. Out of all those, there are less than 20 major violent events.

So the probability of what you said happening is like 0.0000001% , and that too, over a period of ten years or something.

But you make it sound like as if Europe has been invaded by Mongols and Paris is about to fall...

C'mon man..what will all this hate-mongering give you?

Also, 94% of all violent attacks in Europe happened from non-Muslims. Why you don't focus on 94% of violence but are all bent on amplifying 6% violence to dehumanize millions of Europeans who just happens to be Muslims?

As I said, that's just straight up hate-mongering against a particular minority. Last time it were jews, today it is Muslims.

A few ? Have you looked at the statistics of IS support among the immigrating youth mentioned in that letter?

As i've said,we have a cultural angle to this to,which can't be ignored.

 

[Armstrong]

But they are ! Every God damn politician in Western Europe in the last 15 years came to power by promising to adress immigration issues and noone did it.There are no referendums to consult the people on what they want,the problem gets ignored every time when they get in power.

Thats politics for you !

I remember how in the '90s when no one ever heard about Muslim Fanatics this Immigration Debate made Eastern Europeans out to be the bogeyman; it never ceases to amaze me how many obstacles are crossed if people only talk to each other and try to understand the other's view point better.

 

[AUz]

A few ? Have you looked at the statistics of IS support among the immigrating youth mentioned in that letter?

As i've said,we have a cultural angle to this to,which can't be ignored.

Statistics are no reason for hate. Stats are devious anyways. How do I know that? I study peace and security relations in top U.S institute (no kidding, 100% serious). Statistics/polls are NEVER representative of a population.

For example, I can show you statistics which show that 1/3 of ENTIRE U.S population support death of people who work on Sunday, as written in Bible. But does that mean it is REALLY the case?

Moreover, I read a poll which said 27% of French support ISIS. That's a complete bull. Even if ALL French Muslims support ISIS, it will still be less than 10%...so where does this 27% number comes from?

C'mon man..don't develop a confirmation bias in your head.

Non-whites are as Europeans as you are. Lets get out of this racist mentality. This will destroy Europa.

 

[The Silent One]

You seem not to understand, Flamer.

The reason why Anti-Immigration talk is looked down upon is because the person speaking is often racist or promotes racist ideals.

I'm a Moroccan Muslim born in the US, i speak english (no arabic whatsoever) and i'm a practicing muslim. According to certain Europeans (Geert Wilders is the best example), i have to be abused and expelled from Europe (moved to France last year) because i'm moroccan and muslim.

But i'm also a proud american and love the US more than Morocco. But according Geert Wilders i'm a lying muslim who needs to be killed. (i would provide links but the Forum says i need 29 posts, if you're interested google it, he's being arrested for promising to decrease the number of Moroccans in the Netherlands so it should pop up)

Is there a problem within the Muslim Community? Without a doubt. A serious problem that's impossible to ignore. But rather than promoting Anti-Immigration (doesn't really solve anything regardless, *cough* Illegal Immigration *cough*) we should seek to resolve the problems together rather than separately.

 

[flamer84]

Thats politics for you !

I remember how in the '90s when no one ever heard about Muslim Fanatics this Immigration Debate made Eastern Europeans out to be the bogeyman; it never ceases to amaze me how many obstacles are crossed if people only talk to each other and try to understand the other's view point better.

Unlike others,i'm pretty straight forward,I am a nationalist but i'm also for pro European unity because i believe that only a united Europe can withstand what's coming in the next years in the international arena.

However i am clear on two things on a United Europe approach:

1.It should be built on European values accepted by all European nations,recognising our past and our Judeo-Christian culture .

2.It should be accepted by Europeans in a referendum.We can't force Western Europeans to accept us Eastern Europeans altough i blame Western Europe for the fiasco today.In the 90's some EE countries even thought of sterilising some of their gypsie population but were prevented by Westerners.Now the problem is obviously spiralling out of control.

I don't want to be stuck in another Yugoslavia and i don't want people being forced into a Union even if i see it as a right solution for Europe's survival.

 

[Armstrong]

Unlike others,i'm pretty straight forward,I am a nationalist but i'm also for pro European unity because i believe that only a united Europe can withstand what's coming in the next years in the international arena.

However i am clear on two things on a United Europe approach:

1.It should be built on European values accepted by all European nations,recognising our past and our Judeo-Christian culture .

2.It should be accepted by Europeans in a referendum.We can't force Western Europeans to accept us Eastern Europeans altough i blame Western Europe for the fiasco today.In the 90's some EE countries even thought of sterilising some of their gypsie population but were prevented by Westerners.Now the problem is obviously spiralling out of control.

I don't want to be stuck in another Yugoslavia and i don't want people being forced into a Union even if i see it as a right solution for Europe's survival.

By all means do that; its your countries and your future. If you guys think that (1) and (2) are the way forward for you guys who am I to tell you that it isn't and you can't !

 

[flamer84]

You seem not to understand, Flamer.

The reason why Anti-Immigration talk is looked down upon is because the person speaking is often racist or promotes racist ideals.

I'm a Moroccan Muslim born in the US, i speak english (no arabic whatsoever) and i'm a practicing muslim. According to certain Europeans (Geert Wilders is the best example), i have to be abused and expelled from Europe (moved to France last year) because i'm moroccan and muslim.

But i'm also a proud american and love the US more than Morocco. But according Geert Wilders i'm a lying muslim who needs to be killed. (i would provide links but the Forum says i need 29 posts, if you're interested google it, he's being arrested for promising to decrease the number of Moroccans in the Netherlands so it should pop up)

Is there a problem within the Muslim Community? Without a doubt. A serious problem that's impossible to ignore. But rather than promoting Anti-Immigration (doesn't really solve anything regardless, *cough* Illegal Immigration *cough*) we should seek to resolve the problems together rather than separately.

How can we solve it ? Even if it can be solved with the current generation,bringing even more immigrants is not a solution.The flow has to be stopped eventually,this is not a land of infinite resources and in in the end the natives wishes have to be considered.

Yes,illegal immigration can be adressed to,you only need a militarised frontier and guts.It's harsh,but times are getting desperate.

 

[Yousafzai_M]

Can't be bothered to read such a long letter.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Can't be bothered to read such a long letter.

Hehe. Imagine the reaction of Hollande.