A Freedom Struggle Is Not Terrorism

[Vinod2070]

It is a relatively neutral arbiter, and those particular UNSC resolutions were accepted by both sides, therefore their legitimacy. I also qualified my comments with the argument that the people of Baluchistan and NWFP chose of their free will to join Pakistan, something that has not been allowed in Kashmir, which sets Kashmir apart.

While agreeing that the UN is all we have got as a supposedly "neutral" arbiter, the fact remains that any one of the 5 permanent members can block any resolution and that seriously compromises its moral authority.

So you can't have any resolution on Tibet passed in the UN even if it was supposedly highly required. The USA will block any resolution against Israel etc. You get the drift.

Well anyway we will do well to avoid converting this to a Kashmir thread. There is nothing new that can come out from any of us.

 

[Vinod2070]

If India could not resolve kashmir problem and unable to control roits in (gujrat) how can it perform well as permanent UN member.

There have been internal disturbances and riots in China and USA too while they were UN members (LA riots, Tibet riots etc.).

These things are not related.

 

[Zaheerkhan]

Sry to disappoint you, but they are not fighting for the freedom from Pakistan, but they are fighting for the freedom from Terrorists funded by our truly "peaceful neighbor".
thats Y they have created their own armies to fight against these Scums.
I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND.


Regards
Champ

Sorry, missed your reply earlier..I just saw it this time...

On the topic, if you think that the people are fighting for freedom from terrorists, then where are the terrorists coming from?? Every nation that is fighting terrorists say the same thing....Have people in Balochistan and NWFP targeting terrorists??..then why do they attack the army??

Dera Bugti: The Local president of Baloch Republican Party Mr. Sher Mohammed bugti reported the recent attacks by Pakistani army in Zain Koh area, Where 1 innocent Baloch women with small baby were martyred and her husband and 7 year old child injured, after a mortar hit there hut fired by Pakistani army.

According to Mr. Sher Mohammad Bugti Pakistani army burnt the huts of local population in Dilbar Mut area of Dera Bugti in the name of search Operation, and several innocent Balochs were arrested and taken to Sui cantnement.

In the Islamic month of Ramadan the so-called Islamic army of Pakistan is trying to narrow the life for Baloch Nation. which will furhur boost the Baloch Struggle for Freedom. Said Mr. Sher Mohammed.
Baloch Naiton will celeberate this Eid as Freedom day. He added

Link:Pakistani Army attacked Zain Koh with Mortars and Heavy artilery: Sher Mohammad Bugti - News - News - BALOCHWARNA

PLEASE DO NOT POST VIDEO'S GLORIFYING TERRORISM IN THIS FORUM

Now, you will say that the people who are protesting against Pakistani Rule in Balochistan are funded and supported by your neighbours and they are terrorists because they are trying to divide Pakistan,,,,, You must be right in your opinion..you think this is right...

Now, India has said the same thing about Kashmir, it is a part of India just like you have said Balochistan is a part of Pakistan and protests in Kashmir are being organised by people who are funded by our neighbours...there cannot be one sort of a rule for one person and another rule for the other...I am playing by your rule!!

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

??? The muslim spain of Al Andalus initiated a golden age of learning, and tolerance in the Iberian Peninsula, a glorious synthesis of east and west. You obviously have no idea, what science, art, music, philosophy was produced and disseminated during that time, which directly led to the renaissance of Europe. You obviously have no idea, do you? And cannot carry out any conversation or objective reasoning outside the lets hate Pakistan and Muslims paradigm.

darkstar, I wouldn't waste my time on these hindutva cyber warriors, nothing you say will get through. keep in mind, there's a very strong reason why the Pakistan military named its ballistic missiles Ghauri and Ghaznavi.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

Do we have UN resolutions demanding the Baluch and Pashtun regions hold a referendum to determine their destiny?

NWFP had a referendum for its residents to determine whether they wanted to become part of Pakistan.

Baluchistan's residents chose to do so through a Jirga type process.

Once that happened, the sovereignty and unity of the nation took precedence - as it does in all regions of India bar the disputed region of Kashmir.

Lastly, the Taliban movement in FATA has never articulated a demand for secession.

agnostic, why did you even bother replying to this post? NWFP fighting for liberation? when the troll had no proof except flamebait, why didn't you just delete his post?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Now, you will say that the people who are protesting against Pakistani Rule in Balochistan are funded and supported by your neighbours and they are terrorists because they are trying to divide Pakistan,,,,, You must be right in your opinion..you think this is right...

Now, India has said the same thing about Kashmir, it is a part of India just like you have said Balochistan is a part of Pakistan and protests in Kashmir are being organised by people who are funded by our neighbours...there cannot be one sort of a rule for one person and another rule for the other...I am playing by your rule!!

Please do not continue comparing Baluchistan or NWFP with Kashmir, since it has already been extensively pointed out why the two are different. If you continue to do so, without answering the arguments against it, I am going to consider you to be trolling.

1. The lack of implementation of a plebiscite in Kashmir, as required under the conditions of the Instrument of Accession, thereby making the annexation of Kashmir by India 'illegal'

2. UNSC resolutions on Kashmir declaring it to be disputed territory, accepted by both sides, supported by all major members.

3. A representative process (Jirga) in Baluchistan that resulted in the people of Baluchistan deciding to join Pakistan, thereby accepting Pakistani sovereignty - did not happen in Kashmir.

4. A referendum was carried out in NWFP that resulted overwhelmingly in the residents of the NWFP joining Pakistan and accepting its sovereignty.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

agnostic, why did you even bother replying to this post? NWFP fighting for liberation? when the troll had no proof except flamebait, why didn't you just delete his post?

Well, the first time at least I'll point out factually and logically why the claim is wrong. Upon continued insistence to repeat the same debunked claim, we shall ponder action against trolling.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

again here we go wasting our time, he's a troll using a muslim name. I thought after a year of going through the same stuff, we would have learned.

^^^agnostic, debunking these repeated false claims is not slowing the traffic from bharatrakshak one bit. I think we shouldn't bother listening, they'll just outnumber us and overpower us with their stupidity and ignorance.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

again here we go wasting our time, he's a troll using a muslim name. I thought after a year of going through the same stuff, we would have learned.

^^^agnostic, debunking these repeated false claims is not slowing the traffic from bharatrakshak one bit. I think we shouldn't bother listening, they'll just outnumber us and overpower us with their stupidity and ignorance.

He's got one chance to either show his claims to be true, or accept he's wrong. Barring that he's kicked out, especially since he posted a video glorifying terrorism.

 

[Vinod2070]

AM, I would remind you of your own contention about suggestions to ignore some members' post.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM, I would remind you of your own contention about suggestions to ignore some members' post.

True, but since his comments were directed at me, I thought I was doing an admirable job of explaining why I would not be ignoring ZK.

Point taken though.

Assad,

I would ask you to refrain from openly demanding the members to ignore another member. It really does not add to the discussion, and ends up making the discussion hostile.

If you have any concerns, you can always do that through PM, or contacting the Mods.

 

[Zaheerkhan]

Please do not continue comparing Baluchistan or NWFP with Kashmir, since it has already been extensively pointed out why the two are different. If you continue to do so, without answering the arguments against it, I am going to consider you to be trolling.

1. The lack of implementation of a plebiscite in Kashmir, as required under the conditions of the Instrument of Accession, thereby making the annexation of Kashmir by India 'illegal'

2. UNSC resolutions on Kashmir declaring it to be disputed territory, accepted by both sides, supported by all major members.

3. A representative process (Jirga) in Baluchistan that resulted in the people of Baluchistan deciding to join Pakistan, thereby accepting Pakistani sovereignty - did not happen in Kashmir.

4. A referendum was carried out in NWFP that resulted overwhelmingly in the residents of the NWFP joining Pakistan and accepting its sovereignty.

Now Sir,

Sorry for posting the video, but I thought Terrorists were freedom fighters!!
I hope people got the answere, Terrorists have no religion, thats the truth, but what hurts is to see my religion being used by certain people to justify what they are doing.

Regarding the succesion what you are talking about, it has happened in Kashmir also, the King of Kashmir had signed the succession pact to India in 1947, afterwhich India entered Kashmir.How can you justify holding a part of Kashmir calling it 'Azad kashmir' when you say that a formal vote has never taken place. YES, a vote should be held,all people of Kashmir must be given a chance!! People in Kashmir valley, people in Jammu, people in ladakh,people in aksai chin and people in and around Muzzafarabad,..... the state should be restored to the way it was prior to 1947, Pakistan will withdraw troops from Kashmir, India will withdraw troops from Kashmir and China will withdraw troops from Kashmir and everybody will vote on this issue of whether they want to be with India or Paksitan or China or Kashmir wants to be an indipendent nation!!!!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Now Sir,

Sorry for posting the video, but I thought Terrorists were freedom fighters!!
I hope people got the answere, Terrorists have no religion, thats the truth, but what hurts is to see my religion being used by certain people to justify what they are doing.

Regarding the succesion what you are talking about, it has happened in Kashmir also, the King of Kashmir had signed the succession pact to India in 1947, afterwhich India entered Kashmir.How can you justify holding a part of Kashmir calling it 'Azad kashmir' when you say that a formal vote has never taken place. YES, a vote should be held,all people of Kashmir must be given a chance!! People in Kashmir valley, people in Jammu, people in ladakh,people in aksai chin and people in and around Muzzafarabad,..... the state should be restored to the way it was prior to 1947, Pakistan will withdraw troops from Kashmir, India will withdraw troops from Kashmir and China will withdraw troops from Kashmir and everybody will vote on this issue of whether they want to be with India or Paksitan or China or Kashmir wants to be an indipendent nation!!!!

Did you read anything in my post? I specifically addressed why Baluchistan, and NWFP (and for that matter Tamil Nadu) cannot be compared to Kashmir. Therefore any violent group in those areas challenging the writ of the state can be considered a 'terrorist group'.

Remember that in Kashmir it is India that does not want to hold a plebiscite, so the responsibility for not 'listening to the people' lies on her. Perhaps people like you should convince their countrymen and government of holding a referendum in kashmir.

Check out the Kashmir threads in the geo-strategic section.

 

[RescueRanger]

Did you read anything in my post? I specifically addressed why Baluchistan, and NWFP (and for that matter Tamil Nadu) cannot be compared to Kashmir. Therefore any violent group in those areas challenging the writ of the state can be considered a 'terrorist group'.

Remember that in Kashmir it is India that does not want to hold a plebiscite, so the responsibility for not 'listening to the people' lies on her. Perhaps people like you should convince their countrymen and government of holding a referendum in kashmir.

Check out the Kashmir threads in the geo-strategic section.

AM,

Kudos for this post and for many others...

 

[Vinod2070]

Changed the tale again, have we?

There are over a thousand different versions of the Ramayana, stretching from Punjab to Cambodia to Thailand to Sri Lanka to China. I'm guessing that since there are so many different versions, someone, sometime, must have revised the tale to suit the morality/values of the time.

Each human being has his own interpretation of the Ramayana.

I am sure that your interpretation would try to include ideas which seem immoral to you, so that it helps your aim of branding hindus as immoral people.

This tale actually comes from the Puranas, specifically the Shiva Purana.

I have read Shiva Purana when my age was in single digit. And I was fascinated by the richness of our mythology. I am sure it is second to none in its richness in the world. Though I would like to study the Greek mythology too some day. That sounds incredibly rich too.

The version in Shiv Purana talks about Lord Shiva killing Ganesha because he won't let him in as ordered by his mother.

I doubt there is any version of this tale that is out there along the lines mentioned by DS.