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A Freedom Struggle Is Not Terrorism

^^ Great logic. So getting into mythology here, are we? To counter what is undeniable proof!

Shall we also discuss about some of the Islamic mythology. Believe me I can. But I won't stoop to that level. I am discussing the actions of Muslims, not Islamic theology here.

I am sure you are making a lot of sense.

To yourself!
 
don't try to derail this thread vinod. especially not with this unabashed propoganda, a documentary that was shown on tv a while ago, with statements taken out of context to make them sound shocking and absurd.

Why was Bagwan Ganesh beheaded by his father? Because Bagwan Shiva thought that his son had slept with his wife, Devi Parvati. Was this punishment in accordance with HIndu laws? In the end, he had to resort to finding an Elephant's head in order to bring to life their dead son.

Can we say, based on the above belief, that Hindus call for the beheading of people whom they think have slept with their wives?

What percentage of the Bharati population would need to be beheaded then?

Erm....I think your version of the story is wrong.

In any case, the point that I'm trying to make is that hindu mythological tales are not interpreted as a call to action, like the actions of the prophet are in Islam.
Each and every action and word of the prophet is interpreted as the ideal in Islam. This is not the case in Hinduism.
 
DS, I don't want to come between you guys, but I would like to point out that you are wrong on the count of why Ganesh was beheaded. It was not because he slept with Parvati, Ganesh was told by Parvati to stand guard and not allow any one inside while she is taking bath. When Shiva was about to go inside, Ganesh has stopped him going inside, Shiva, being a temperamental guy, beheaded him, only after realizing his mistake that he had to go for an elephants head.

So, your whole premise linking it to the behavior of Hinduism is totally wrong and out of context.

Half knowledge is more dangerous than plain ignorance.

Especially in a mind that is not especially honest and truthful.
 
your reaction, is exactly what i expected. I was pointing out that if things are taken out of context, as had been done in the videos posted, we can point fingers at any religion.

As for Lord Ganesh standing guard, it is true that is what his mother ordered him to do. But seeing a strange man at his home, Lord Shiva assumed that there was something indecent going on. He did not behead him just for standing guard.

However, I see some modern Hindu revisionists have worked on this tale too, as they have also tried to take the Agni Pariksha story out of the Raam leela, because Lord Ram did not trust the fact that Devi Sita had been untouched by Shri Ravana.
 
The Balochi and now it seems Pashtun freedom struggle is not terrorism either.
So NWFP and Baloch are fighting for freedom,,,.... Do you justify their voilent means of 'fighting for freedom' ???


Do we have UN resolutions demanding the Baluch and Pashtun regions hold a referendum to determine their destiny?

NWFP had a referendum for its residents to determine whether they wanted to become part of Pakistan.

Baluchistan's residents chose to do so through a Jirga type process.

Once that happened, the sovereignty and unity of the nation took precedence - as it does in all regions of India bar the disputed region of Kashmir.

Lastly, the Taliban movement in FATA has never articulated a demand for secession.
 
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your reaction, is exactly what i expected. I was pointing out that if things are taken out of context, as had been done in the videos posted, we can point fingers at any religion.

As for Lord Ganesh standing guard, it is true that is what his mother ordered him to do. But seeing a strange man at his home, Lord Shiva assumed that there was something indecent going on. He did not behead him just for standing guard.

However, I see some modern Hindu revisionists have worked on this tale too, as they have also tried to take the Agni Pariksha story out of the Raam leela, because Lord Ram did not trust the fact that Devi Sita had been untouched by Shri Ravana.

Changed the tale again, have we?

There are over a thousand different versions of the Ramayana, stretching from Punjab to Cambodia to Thailand to Sri Lanka to China. I'm guessing that since there are so many different versions, someone, sometime, must have revised the tale to suit the morality/values of the time.

Each human being has his own interpretation of the Ramayana.

I am sure that your interpretation would try to include ideas which seem immoral to you, so that it helps your aim of branding hindus as immoral people.
 
??? The muslim spain of Al Andalus initiated a golden age of learning, and tolerance in the Iberian Peninsula, a glorious synthesis of east and west. You obviously have no idea, what science, art, music, philosophy was produced and disseminated during that time, which directly led to the renaissance of Europe. You obviously have no idea, do you? And cannot carry out any conversation or objective reasoning outside the lets hate Pakistan and Muslims paradigm.

Lets stick to why Spain was invaded and occupied here.

If Spain regarded its occupation so highly why did they get rid of every last trace of that occupation? You only seem to believe in the version of the occupier! Even the British and others talked of the "white man's burden". You are no better in your arguments.

And don't assume whether I have any idea or not. I may have more "idea" than you for all that matters. Lets move on beyond tried and tested rhetoric.

What are you on about? Don't go round playing the guessing game. You're juxtaposing views on us, that none of us hold, and then refuting them. Why don't you take over my Avatar and write my posts for me too? That should make it much easier for you.

Since when has the jirga system been called Islamic? Would the excesses of a local village panchayat be attributed to HInduism? Would you, for example, condemn Hinduism when a child is forced to marry a dog and copulate, ostensibly to ward off some perceived evil to the village? Why does every conversation of yours have to end in dengrating Islam or Muslims to some degree? Is this what your Bharatiya secular education has taught you?

How does it matter if it is Islamic or not? That is the reality in Pakistan. A thousand years of Islam did not change it.

So while ignoring the rubbish in this post about the dog and other BS, if women are being raped it entitles Pakistan to be enslaved as per your logic. That is all I said.

Who enslaved whom? No muslim certainly did not enslave any Indian. Maybe the Europeans should have arrived and taken over a little earlier. Lets say the Spanish/Portuge(and not just in the vicinity of Goa). Then you would know what slavery is. I'm sure people like Raja Man singh would not have agreed with you.

You cannot use today's geopolitcal considerations and attitudes to pass judgement on what happened 1200 years ago. You have to look at the local dynamics of the time, and the pattern of settlement and invasion that characterised human flows. The muslims were not the first, nor the last to come to India. We had a perfect example in the Aryans before us, whoc certainly did enslave the local population by making them into Shudras and Dalits.

Deliberate lies here! Don't you know of the slave traffic conducted by the Arabs? The millions of slaves that were taken to Afghanistan? From your own country.

It is not about today's geopolitical situation at all. It is about those actions were fair and whether you would like the same to be done unto you.

Show me the undeniable proof of AIT, then we can discuss your Aryan hypothesis. It is just a conjecture by some European historians. It is discredited now AFAIK.

I did not trash anyone for being a Shia, or Bohra. You must get yourself checked, you are spending too much time on this forum, and have started hallucinating.

How ironic. Getting lectured by Vindo sahb, on the subject of tolerance. That'd be like George Bush professing on becoming peacniks.

Let me remind you:

Thanks for finding articles from such obscure people. Acknowledged authoroty on islam? acknowledged by whom?

Why don't you also mention, he is the leader of a minor religious sect, the Progressive Dawoodi Bohra movement.

If you are peddling such voices on this forum, you should be honest enough to give the contextual background of the writer.

So, the views of a person are to be contextualized by his sect as per you!

You need to remember your words about the other sects. I don't need to dig them for you. You can do that yourself. I have not seen anyone here peddling the sectarian differences so openly as you.

It is indeed ironic to get lectures on secularism and tolerance from Mr. DarkStar. The same person who wishes the destruction and breakdown of another country.
 
Do we have UN resolutions demanding the Baluch and Pashtun regions hold a referendum to determine their destiny?

What is so special about a UN resolution? Is that the only barometer of human rights and morality?

It is an organization that is 60 years too old and has failed to keep up with the times.

You know how UN resolutions are passed and how many countries really care for them when it starts hitting their own interests? Not even the permanent members care for it too much.

All I mean is that UN authority should be kept in context. It is no divine organization.
 
AND also Balochistan and NWFP are not UN RECOGNIZED DISPUTED TERRITORIES.
 
What is so special about a UN resolution? Is that the only barometer of human rights and morality?

It is an organization that is 60 years too old and has failed to keep up with the times.

You know how UN resolutions are passed and how many countries really care for them when it starts hitting their own interests? Not even the permanent members care for it too much.

All I mean is that UN authority should be kept in context. It is no divine organization.

You say this, even though it was Nehru who scampered off to the U.N. clutching his dhoti in his hands. And he affirmed and signed the resolution himself, making it both legally and morally binding upon the Republic of India.

But let facts not get in the way of your posts. Carry on in blatant disregard for something as isignficant as the truth, eh?
 
You say this, even though it was Nehru who scampered off to the U.N. clutching his dhoti in his hands. And he affirmed and signed the resolution himself, making it both legally and morally binding upon the Republic of India.

But let facts not get in the way of your posts. Carry on in blatant disregard for something as isignficant as the truth, eh?

You can't argue without using street level language. Can you?

Let me not stoop to the same level and talk of the loongis and tehemeds here.

Pakistan did not act as per the UN award and made it null and void. There has been enough discussion on this in its dedicated thread. Lets not flog a dead horse here.
 
I mean effective organisation.

India is a member of so many organizations, same like Pakistan.

Some of them are more effective than the others.

Pakistan is a member of OIC, not a particularly effective organization!

Being a UN permanent member is more about national prestige than anything else. But yes, increasing the permanent members of the UN and including countries like India, Japan, Brazil, Germany etc. will make it more relevant and representative.

Right now its a club of the WW-II victors.
 
What is so special about a UN resolution? Is that the only barometer of human rights and morality?

It is an organization that is 60 years too old and has failed to keep up with the times.

You know how UN resolutions are passed and how many countries really care for them when it starts hitting their own interests? Not even the permanent members care for it too much.

All I mean is that UN authority should be kept in context. It is no divine organization.

It is a relatively neutral arbiter, and those particular UNSC resolutions were accepted by both sides, therefore their legitimacy. I also qualified my comments with the argument that the people of Baluchistan and NWFP chose of their free will to join Pakistan, something that has not been allowed in Kashmir, which sets Kashmir apart.
 
Pakistan did not act as per the UN award and made it null and void. There has been enough discussion on this in its dedicated thread. Lets not flog a dead horse here.

That thread actually validates Pakistan's POV, since the report from the UN official clearly criticizes India for not being sincere in implementing the resolutions. That argument is further validated by the comments of Nehru that I posted (in an exchange with you) in another thread, in which he was clearly articulating the GoI's decision to not hold a referendum and annex Kashmir unilaterally.

The only dead horse here is pretending that Pakistan was responsible for not implementing the resolutions.
 

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