A Formidable Enemy-The ‘good’ Taliban join forces with the ‘bad’ Taliban

[S-2]

"The Taliban have every right to resist foreign occupation just as the french resistance had the right to resist the Nazis in world war 2..."

Nope. The taliban seized power and ruled by the barrel of a gun. They were not elected. Karzai has greater legitimacy and a stronger mandate than the taliban ever did.

"Besides if your so concerned about free and fair elections I suggest you start writing letters of complaint to your own gov for interfering in the democratic process all over the world most notably south America, do I need to mention Chile, Bolivia,Venezuela, etc etc the list is endless the involvement of the U.S criminal."

Kasrkin, this is a rant.

Irrelevant, C.O. Afghanistan is the discussed issue here. Can you stay on topic please?

"You really expect us to buy this bull?"

Evidently you can't count. If so, how would you know one way or another?

"The Taliban were in power for a number of years,not once did we here [sic] any of these horror stories..."

You weren't listening-

Here's the Human Rights Watch from November of 1998-

Afghanistan: The Massacre In Mazur-I-Sharif- HRW

and again-

Afghanistan: Massacres of Hazaras In Afghanistan- HRW February 2001

Something tells me you'll know all about any N.A. atrocities. I'm happy to help on the other side of the coin. Do you need more as I've only scratched the surface of the taliban's particular benevolence?

"Do any of the criems [sic] perpetrated by the U.S gov ever matter to you? I think not."

Are any relevant to this discussion about good and bad taliban?

"I don't believe these figures at all..."

And you offer...?

"U.S bombing results in far more civilian deaths..."

Not according to either the U.N. or HRW.

"...the fact remains that any casualties that might occur as a result of Taliban resistance are unavoidable..."

Intentionally targeting civilians is entirely avoidable.

"...and there would never be any need if it were not for the occupation in the first place."

There's never any "need" to intentionally target civilians. There is no "occupation". Forty nations are in Afghanistan by invitation of the elected afghan government and operating under a U.N. mandate. This mission has broad international support.

"The U.S occupation is the sole reason for people getting blown up in Afghanistan."

A childish comment.

"You know what you can do with you BS organisations and your bollo**s figures don't ya? Yes that's right, where the sun doesn't shine."

Another childish comment. You offer nothing whatsoever of substance in retort.

"No, and that's just your BS that not even the other occupying nations believe."

Actually, those nations see for themselves where attacks are made but no legitimate military target exists. Self evident in too many cases whom were the intended targets. Certainly, the acid disfigurements weren't collateral to attacks on military personnel. I imagine even you can understand that much. Beyond that, there are countless documented cases of targeted attacks and use of human shields.

"The fact is your all right with the millions killed over the past few years by your country all in the name of democracy and freedom, that doesn't matter one bit to you does it?"

"The fact is" you have no facts. "Millions killed over the past few years by your country [America]..."? Not even Lancet went that far. Please provide your links to such unusual claims- if you can. About 20,000 or so have died to date in this conflict. Most by the taliban and a far cry at any rate from either the Afghan civil war or the Afghan-Soviet war.

NATO/ISAF/America have been immensely careful by comparison. In fact, there is no comparison with Afghanistan's recent past when stripping out those killed by the taliban and viewing only those killed by ISAF/America.

"The Taliban do not and have never committed any such crimes,the US however do it as a matter of routine."

Uh huh. Sure.

"Don't tell us what is and what isn't acceptable in our lands,just who the hell do you think you are, the policeman of the world or something?"

You aren't acceptable. Your archaic, brutal vision isn't acceptable. Your cowardly attacks on civilians aren't acceptable. For all those reasons (and more) we wish to kill men like yourself.

Do you object to such? If so, I wish that you'd find the courage of your convictions and march to Afghanistan with a weapon in hand. Can you do so?

That would be helpful to everybody concerned, I believe, and would please me greatly. I'll look forward to your posts as never before if so.

 

[waraich66]

Its ok for the Afghans to live under the Taliban but not ok for Pakistan? Stop being hypocrtical here, if Pakistan wants to show its regional superiority you ought to take responsibility for getting rid of the Taliban plague everywhere that you see fit and if its within your power help those who can't help themselves. No one should be living under the Taliban no one there is no such thing as a good Taliban.

Talaban was choice of majority of Afghan people, that is reason Pakistan was the first country accepted their government.

US rooted out talaban regime with force because they refused to hand over OBL to USA.After eight years ISAF could not control more then 30% area of Afghanistan , which is proof that still talaban have roots in local tribes.

There is no talaban in Pakistan , TTP and TNSM leaders belong to JI and other religious parties , their is lot of difference in Afghan Talaban and TTP/TNSM idealogy.

There is no question of hypocracy here.

 

[waraich66]

This is the height of hypcrocsy as I see it, but sadly this transends not only on some pakistanie (like Mr. Fundamentalist) , but even the army. Because this beast (Mullah Omar) has never attacked Pakistan makes him into to good taliban, but the consequences of his action is just blind sided.

This should give more fervor to NATO, Afgani establishment, and even India to fight for democracy and stability in the region. And that should be the benchmark of success in the war on terror. No matter how Pakistanie establishment antagonises. There are no such thing as good talibans only dead talibans period.

You dont know what is difference between TTP,TNSM and Mullah Omer 's Talaban idealogy ?

First understand the difference then you eligible for critisim , blindly support to US mistakes will be great embrasment for you.

Bush already admitted his wrong decisions to attack on Iraq and NATO leaders stated many times that US strategy in Afghanistan is wrong and many US and UK politicians critised Bush regime for their wrong strategies in Afghanistan.

Why US is now closing Gotanobay ?

 

[TaimiKhan]

well i think there is no good or taliban concept in reality as this term is being used for media purposes. The true taliban are the ones who are fighting the americans in afghnistan & PA or the govt even at the time of Mushy was not againt them or wanted to confront them as they had an indirect support of PA as these taleban are needed to Pakistan for strategic purposes. The rest specially TTP is just a bunch of thieves, murderers, dacoits, anti-pakistani and anit-pasthun people who are on a rampage just for the sake of dollars. Baithullah Mehsud has not sent a single fighter to Afghanistan to fight americans, rather TTP was created after Mullah Omar describes these men as not a part of Taleban, so they changed their name.
As for americans, just for dominating the world through oil, gas and other natural resources, they first attacked afghanistan and then iraq. Their plan had not taken into account such stiff resistance from the mujahedin. They thought it would be a walk in the park by getting rid of the governments as people would be happy, but that didnt came out to be the case. In their quest for americans have killed directly and indirectly thousand and thousands of muslims and also made suffered their own population through their own casualties.
And whtever the people say, americans do have a plot against pakistan, they cant see an islamic country having nukes. Pakistan has tried its best to protect the taleban, which it should keep doing and keep supporting them to fight the americans, and on the other hand Pak should keep equipping its army through american money as may be in future this same army would be fighting the americans. As for these TTP, i wish there should be a no prisoner policy, they should be shot at sight & on capture, as they are animals not humans. Mullah Nazir and Gul Bahadur are the correct version of taliban, but their stance to be united with Mehsud is due to their fear that once PA is finished with Mehsud, it will come after them, which shouldn't be the case.

 

[TaimiKhan]

and if there is OBL, he is either working on behalf of the americans or he is being used by the americans as an excuse for their atrocities. If you look at the facts regarding 9/11, even a dumb person can understand that its an inside job.
I have done a lot of fact finding, and have taken into account the facts presented by american websites, american researchers and after analyzing all those facts, u come to a reality that this was not an act done by an outsider, there was definitely a huge conspiracy from guys who wanted this to happen and change the face of the world for its own purpose.

 

[Javed3]

S-2 represents the viewpoint of our benefactors and should be treated with respect.

Even if the US bombing in Iraq / Afghanistan or FATA resulted in a few hundred thousand civilian casualties, that’s a small price to pay to guarantee freedom and security for billions of human beings around the world. The US is in the forefront of War Against Terror and we are the willing partners.

The US has been reimbursing all our actual costs for the operations conducted within Pakistani territory and all the logistics flowing through Pakistan. On top of that the US is paying us US$ 1.5 b / year. That confers on them the right to guide our policies and actions, and to demand tangible results.

The US has facilitated about $ 7.5 b stabilization funding from IMF to sustain our tattered economy and Mr Shaukat Tareen is filing request for additional $ 4 b. If the US does not support our petition our economy will be in free fall and the dollar will trade fro Rs 200.

 

[Fracker]

that’s a small price to pay to guarantee freedom and security for billions of human beings around the world.

please bomb the London, & NY rather then iraq or afghanistan. we all know why UK and US came to Iraq i.e. oil. And just shattered whole peace of whole region. Your freedom is costing death to the millions muslims, i don't how you are free now? you still are same rule, which you were from last 100s of years. & infact paying more taxes, how you become free??? your countries are manipulating whole region for their politics. 1st afghanistan, then iraq, then pakistan and now iran.

On top of that the US is paying us US$ 1.5 b / year.

where paying? our budget is showing no scene of this neither foreign reserves, at march 2008 we had 18 billion dollar foreign reserves and now we have 12billion.. also there is still 24 billion spending deficit towards US, which they haven't paid us

The US has facilitated about $ 7.5 b stabilization funding from IMF to sustain our tattered economy and Mr Shaukat Tareen is filing request for additional $ 4 b.

with the clause of increase taxes on electricity, petrol etc... so can suck blood of all pakistanis. **sick of this So-Called Help**

 

[waraich66]

S-2 represents the viewpoint of our benefactors and should be treated with respect.

Even if the US bombing in Iraq / Afghanistan or FATA resulted in a few hundred thousand civilian casualties, that’s a small price to pay to guarantee freedom and security for billions of human beings around the world. The US is in the forefront of War Against Terror and we are the willing partners.

The US has been reimbursing all our actual costs for the operations conducted within Pakistani territory and all the logistics flowing through Pakistan. On top of that the US is paying us US$ 1.5 b / year. That confers on them the right to guide our policies and actions, and to demand tangible results.

The US has facilitated about $ 7.5 b stabilization funding from IMF to sustain our tattered economy and Mr Shaukat Tareen is filing request for additional $ 4 b. If the US does not support our petition our economy will be in free fall and the dollar will trade fro Rs 200.

How US will pay the blood money of innocient civilians died due to drone attacks?

 

[waraich66]

and if there is OBL, he is either working on behalf of the americans or he is being used by the americans as an excuse for their atrocities. If you look at the facts regarding 9/11, even a dumb person can understand that its an inside job.
I have done a lot of fact finding, and have taken into account the facts presented by american websites, american researchers and after analyzing all those facts, u come to a reality that this was not an act done by an outsider, there was definitely a huge conspiracy from guys who wanted this to happen and change the face of the world for its own purpose.

Can you please provide any source reference or link of your claim?

I think this is not case , OBL idealogy is based on extremisim ,Al Qaida many times openly anounced that they will target US assets.

 

[Fracker]

Can you please provide any source reference or link of your claim?

why you always become ignorant on this issue? I have provided proofs number of times in this forum. none was even challenged. forget denial!!

 

[TaimiKhan]

well fundamentalist bro, as for source to links, net is full of all the material which says this and that, so many theories, Allah knows well what is true and what is not. what i posted is based on my study and the conclusions i have made from this study. OBL may be a real character who might be having extremist views about americans and does want to destroy or damage america but if you look at their achievements, what have they achieved so far? Nothing, 9/11 was no job of Al Qaida, it was by americans who very easily blamed it on them for a justification for their war to occupy muslims lands and their resources. Look at iraq, they came, captured the oil, God know how much oil they would have taken up for themselves, and now they are building iraq by selling that oil and giving contracts to their own companies, iraqi army is being built by purchasing weapons from american co's and allied countries. Before 9/11, the no#1 killer of muslims has been israel, why isnt al qaeda working againt israel just like hamas & hizbullah??? when 9/11 happened, americans asked israeli's about OBL and they had nothing on them as he had never threathened israel. these 2 organizations are not targeting americans, becoz the enemy of islam are jews. Al Qaeda comes on the radar from nowhere and threats america for what??? Americans blame al qaeda for 9/11 and starts its war.
They (al qaeda) have been not able to kill anyone significant enough, achieved nothing, but by putting the blame on them americans do whatever they wana do and still they r doing till they get their results. In saddam time there was no al qaeda in iraq, from nowhere they came and started fighting americans and usa had again a reason to stay in iraq. So problem is that we muslims are in disarray, our leaders are the worst of their kind and the infidels are taking advantage of all this situation. Americans have a history of working with extremist organizations even when they know these orgns are their enemies just for their own agenda. when it gets fulfilled or they dont see success in it, they leave them or destroy them. Saddam was they same guy they armed to fight against iran, and desert storm, when saddam became against, they toppled & then killed him. America is being run by jews, even american presidents who have tried to get back the control of usa have been killed.

 

[waraich66]

well fundamentalist bro, as for source to links, net is full of all the material which says this and that, so many theories, Allah knows well what is true and what is not. what i posted is based on my study and the conclusions i have made from this study. OBL may be a real character who might be having extremist views about americans and does want to destroy or damage america but if you look at their achievements, what have they achieved so far? Nothing, 9/11 was no job of Al Qaida, it was by americans who very easily blamed it on them for a justification for their war to occupy muslims lands and their resources. Look at iraq, they came, captured the oil, God know how much oil they would have taken up for themselves, and now they are building iraq by selling that oil and giving contracts to their own companies, iraqi army is being built by purchasing weapons from american co's and allied countries. Before 9/11, the no#1 killer of muslims has been israel, why isnt al qaeda working againt israel just like hamas & hizbullah??? when 9/11 happened, americans asked israeli's about OBL and they had nothing on them as he had never threathened israel. these 2 organizations are not targeting americans, becoz the enemy of islam are jews. Al Qaeda comes on the radar from nowhere and threats america for what??? Americans blame al qaeda for 9/11 and starts its war.
They (al qaeda) have been not able to kill anyone significant enough, achieved nothing, but by putting the blame on them americans do whatever they wana do and still they r doing till they get their results. In saddam time there was no al qaeda in iraq, from nowhere they came and started fighting americans and usa had again a reason to stay in iraq. So problem is that we muslims are in disarray, our leaders are the worst of their kind and the infidels are taking advantage of all this situation. Americans have a history of working with extremist organizations even when they know these orgns are their enemies just for their own agenda. when it gets fulfilled or they dont see success in it, they leave them or destroy them. Saddam was they same guy they armed to fight against iran, and desert storm, when saddam became against, they toppled & then killed him. America is being run by jews, even american presidents who have tried to get back the control of usa have been killed.

According to your analysis,OBL is CIA/MOSAD agent but why he is hidding in Afghanistan/Pakistan mountains , he should enjoy his life in paris or newyork?

 

[waraich66]

why you always become ignorant on this issue? I have provided proofs number of times in this forum. none was even challenged. forget denial!!

Every one know that 4000 Jews were absent on 9/11 but mistery is who inform them?

 

[Fracker]

According to your analysis,OBL is CIA/MOSAD agent but why he is hidding in Afghanistan/Pakistan mountains , he should enjoy his life in paris or newyork?

He never said OBL was CIA/MoSSAD agent. He said since 9/11 was inside job, so "IF" 9/11 was done by OBL "Then" (Only) he is CIA/MOSSAD agent. btw i know he died, and died in Oct 2006. some people from mardan went for his janazah as well in Kandhar. This is CIA who kept him alive for their agenda.

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:40 PM ----------

Every one know that 4000 Jews were absent on 9/11 but mistery is who inform them?

My x-Boss received a report (undisclosed source) in 1998, which he thought is a scrap, but it was a plan of 9/11. & in that report, everything was witting exactly same as happened on 9/11. Just with the different, previously their target was Palestine (hizbullah), but then they pointed at Afghanistan (Al-qaida), to achieve better goal.

 

[forcetrip]

Everyone can make absurd statements and watch all the conspiracy theory videos on youtube. The truth is what is happening. Can anyone deny what is happening? Seems to me its a lot easier pointing the finger towards anything that breathes than to sit and think.

P.S Your ex boss saw the plans for 9/11 in 1998???

Were they in a folder with U.S State Department Stamps marked confidential?

I think my Sabzi wala has them. Do you guys know each other?