"Perhaps if you'd use your brain and read it in the context of the words I've quoted, you'd figure it out."
You suggest Omar might be in Helmand. So? We suggest he more likely is in Quetta.
Brain used then and now, Mr. Moderator. Thank you.
"Irrelevant. You can boast all about how US/NATO have 'traveled from very far way' to 'help others' but that does change the fact that there is much work to be done in Afghanistan."
Hardly irrelevant. The discussion is about "good" and "bad" taliban. That particular lexicon applies only to Pakistanis. Outside of Pakistan, there are only taliban and they are ALL bad.
This discussion isn't about the efforts of foreign nations to assist Afghanistan. It's about Pakistan and those "good" and "bad" taliban. What happens in Helmand is beyond your control. What happens in Quetta is not. In Quetta, the "good" taliban reside.
"...And many within and out of the US establishment have taken upon themselves to accuse Pakistan for most (if not all) of their setback and failures there..."
Only the U.S., eh? In any case, they'd be inaccurate if doing so. Many of our setbacks and failures can be legitimately attributed to ourselves. We seem to spend a great deal of time, blood, and money, however, to determine what we might do better.
The concern, though, for many is that Pakistan's decision to aborgate it's sovereign responsibilities in the late fall of 2001 and early 2002 helped to create an externally-directed insurgency against Afghanistan. In so doing, this insurgency has dramatically exacerbated the difficulties that Afghanistan would otherwise present to stabilization efforts. Without such, the problem would be greatly diminished in import if a factor at all.
This is a legitimate source of our angst. No doubt. The fountain, even.
"...thus my logical point, look to your own sphere of responsibility and jurisdiction..."
90,000 ISAF troops suggest such is going on. I'm governed by no such obligation and can look to wherever I see problems. Your issues of sovereignty are such.
"...before making sweeping and self-righteous appraisals."
Sweeping it is. It covers much of FATA and eastern Baluchistan with those "good" taliban and associates. How "self-righteous" is in the eye of the beholder. For myself, I accept such a condition now with equanimity.
"...Instead of trying to dodge that point and looking for strawmen, wouldnt it have been easier to acknowledge it?"
No, Kasrkin. I sense dissemblance here on your part. It is conceivable that Omar, his command leadership, OBL, Zawahiri, Hekmatyar, and Haqqani all reside 24/7/52 weeks a year in Afghanistan. The consensus seems not, however. Nonetheless, we'll be pleased to uncover Omar in some hamlet in Helmand should he be there as we arrive. Unlike you, though, we'll be searching a foreign land for these men.
You'll be searching your own lands...or so they're drawn on maps. Therein lies the fundamental difference between ISAF operations and your own.
We look forward to your eventual entry into Quetta, where much independant reporting seems to affirm Gates' thoughts.
"Keep the rants on the down-low."
What rants? Sovereign aborgation? If so, that's not a rant. It's a very serious issue given the subsequent consequences. Sovereign aborgation is, perhaps, the most serious of all and entirely relevant to any discussion of a "good" taliban.
"Doesnt matter what Gates believes as long as his establishment is not able to generate conclusive proof."
Policy has long been in place and executed on just such an analysis by our government and others.
Of course it matters what the SECDEF of the U.S.A. believes. He has very nonchalantly asserted his belief in the existance of a "Quetta Shura". However, please note that I didn't say "carelessly".
On what basis Gates does so I don't know but there's plenty available in the public domain which has done the same for years. Earlier I left the Elizabeth Rubin piece by the NYT and Peter Bergen's thoughts but they hardly are the sum total. I suspect Gates' sourcing goes a bit deeper though.
"I could tell you our Interior Minister and DG ISPR believe that India is supporting Mehsud through bases in Afghanistan with tacit approval, but would you believe that?"
Irrelevant what I believe about your Interior Minister and DG ISPR on that topic. Your problem is that the SECDEF and many others inside our government and elsewhere assert a "Quetta Shura". So too many independant reporting sources. I've previously used links to such assertions to support my prior posts on this thread.
"There is no proof that any of your claims about exiled Taliban governments in Quetta is fact, and not self-convenient guess-work being purported to as fact."
That's the second time you've referred to "proof". This isn't a rhetorical exercise, Kasrkin. I don't need to prove to you that large elements of this Afghan insurgency find sustenance, support, and sustainment in Pakistan.
There is the assertion of the SECDEF and a long history of anecdotal reporting to this effect. "Google" away, lad. As to guesswork, I think matters extend further-
Mullah Omar "hiding" In Pakistan- BBC 17 January 2007
"Mr Hanif has been highly active over the past year, regularly e-mailing news organisations with the Taleban's version of events in the east of the country.
A man called Qari Mohammad Yousuf has performed similar functions for the Taleban in the south.
The two men were appointed after the capture in Quetta, Pakistan, of former Taleban spokesman Latifullah Hakimi in October 2005.
The Taleban have confirmed Mr Hanif's arrest.
On Wednesday, they named a replacement, Zabihollah Mojahed, the Peshawar-based Afghan Islamic Press reported."
Taliban Haven In Pakistani City Raises Fears- NYT February 9, 2009
"Mullah Rahim, the Talibans top commander in Helmand Province, was arrested in Quetta last summer [2008] two weeks after Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and a top C.I.A. officer visited Islamabad to confront Pakistani leaders with evidence of ties between the countrys powerful spy service and militants operating in Pakistans tribal areas. But an American intelligence official said last week that Mullah Rahim was no longer in custody."
There's a bit more than guesswork and a few more informed souls than simply the SECDEF.
"Barely anymore than what the US did when confronting the Soviet Union was a priority."
We learned our lesson. Have you?
"Avoid vague rants without particular proofs or references in the future."
If men such as Gates, Barnos, McKiernan and many, many others with far greater insight and access are prepared to assert such on a routine basis, so too shall I...and have. Nothing vague there. You've specific names and linked articles as a sampling of a far greater body of work which concurs that Quetta is a VERY likely residence for Omar. That's not ranting.
There are plenty of "vague rants" on this thread.
Mine aren't among them.
Thanks, Kasrkin.
