A Curse Of Partition: The Forgotten Temples Of Kotli, Kashmir, Pakistan

[Screambowl]

She was an Arab..... There goes your argument down the drain.

so is yours, because dalits are allowed in temples.

 

[syedali73]

so is yours, because dalits are allowed in temples.

I never made this argument. Following did:

So you are bothered about Temples u have not seen yet Dalits are not allowed in temples u visit?

Dalits punished for entering temple: Government steps in

Puri: A board outside a temple for the Goddess Kali orders Dalits to stop at this point. "Harijans can pray from here," it declares. The warning sign was put up in August last year after three schoolgirls entered the shrine to offer Prasad to the Goddess, an icon of empowerment and Shakti.

The caretaker of the temple in Orissa's Puri district offers no apologies for the discrimination. "It is against tradition," he says, "Our fathers did not allow harijans to step inside the temple, and we will also bar their entry. We will die rather than let it happen."

''This is highly objectionable. How can they do it? I will take some time out personally and go there myself and take action against them," said L Punia, Chairman of the National commission for Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribes.

Now, based on NDTV's report this morning, the Centre has asked the Orissa government to provide more information on why this was not stopped.

Chandana Bhoi is one of the young girls who visited the Goddess, triggering a vengeful response. "There should be no discrimination. We can do the same work as the upper-castes," she says. "We pray to the same Gods, so why are we treated so badly?"

Her entire village waits for the answer. Ranapada is home to 80 Dalit families who earn their living as sharecroppers. But since the temple controversy last year, they have been given no work. Upper caste leaders from surrounding villages decided to teach them a lesson. Landlords in the area took back the land given for cultivation to the Dalits.

"They did not call us to cultivate their land - neither women nor men," says an out-of-work farmer. "We used to work in their fields and share the harvest. Then they stopped hiring us."

When they wakened to the problem, local officials employed the Dalit farmers under the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme or NREGA. They spent months working on constructing a road. But they have been paid just half of what they are due. Wages not being handed out are a common problem with NREGA - middlemen or contractors are also known to pocket part of the money that's due to hires.

The Dalit farmers say elected representatives in the area are from upper castes - and will not protect them at the risk of upsetting their vote bank. Sanjay Dasverma, who represents the area, refutes this allegation. "There is no vote-bank politicking in my constituency. I always try to keep the constituency above these issues," he says.

But the board outside the temple proves that there is little political will in undoing the wrongs inflicted here - or in challenging archaic and illegal conventions rooted in the caste system. A young couple in their wedding finery crouches outside the temple, seeking the Goddess' blessings, forbidden from drawing any closer. Nobody blinks.

Dalits punished for entering temple: Government steps in

No entry for Dalits in Gujarat temple

Even as Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi goes on showcasing his state as a case study in development, the centuries-old evil practice of not allowing Dalits to enter temples still plagues a village in Ahmedabad district.

Around 100 Dalit families of Galsana village in Dhandhuka taluka are testimony to the backwardness that still prevails the state in many areas of social life. Upper caste members of the village do not allow them to enter the premises of village temples.

The village has five temples, including a Swaminarayan temple, and Dalits have never stepped inside any of them.

However, on February 4, four Dalit families decided to enter the premises of the Swaminarayan temple and asked for police protection for the same. They chose that day as the village had planned pran-pratishthan of Lord Swaminarayan after the reconstruction of the 22-year-old temple located in the middle of the village.

The invitations sent out for the event were the last straw for the Dalits as the temple management had made separate seating arrangements for SCs at the mass feast.

“However, on February 4, the temple authorities and villagers ensured that the temple remained closed to prevent us from entering it,” Sunil Parmar, a Dalit, said.

Swami Krishna Vallabh, the Mahant Swami of Muli Swaminarayan Temple in Surendranagar and chief organiser of the event, conceded that the event had indeed been cancelled. “We had to cancel it as the other villagers were unhappy with the idea of Dalits entering the temple,” he said.

No entry for Dalits in Gujarat temple | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

 

[Screambowl]

I never made this argument. Following did:

and you supported it

I never made this argument. Following did:



Dalits punished for entering temple: Government steps in

Puri: A board outside a temple for the Goddess Kali orders Dalits to stop at this point. "Harijans can pray from here," it declares. The warning sign was put up in August last year after three schoolgirls entered the shrine to offer Prasad to the Goddess, an icon of empowerment and Shakti.

The caretaker of the temple in Orissa's Puri district offers no apologies for the discrimination. "It is against tradition," he says, "Our fathers did not allow harijans to step inside the temple, and we will also bar their entry. We will die rather than let it happen."

''This is highly objectionable. How can they do it? I will take some time out personally and go there myself and take action against them," said L Punia, Chairman of the National commission for Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribes.

Now, based on NDTV's report this morning, the Centre has asked the Orissa government to provide more information on why this was not stopped.

Chandana Bhoi is one of the young girls who visited the Goddess, triggering a vengeful response. "There should be no discrimination. We can do the same work as the upper-castes," she says. "We pray to the same Gods, so why are we treated so badly?"

Her entire village waits for the answer. Ranapada is home to 80 Dalit families who earn their living as sharecroppers. But since the temple controversy last year, they have been given no work. Upper caste leaders from surrounding villages decided to teach them a lesson. Landlords in the area took back the land given for cultivation to the Dalits.

"They did not call us to cultivate their land - neither women nor men," says an out-of-work farmer. "We used to work in their fields and share the harvest. Then they stopped hiring us."

When they wakened to the problem, local officials employed the Dalit farmers under the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme or NREGA. They spent months working on constructing a road. But they have been paid just half of what they are due. Wages not being handed out are a common problem with NREGA - middlemen or contractors are also known to pocket part of the money that's due to hires.

The Dalit farmers say elected representatives in the area are from upper castes - and will not protect them at the risk of upsetting their vote bank. Sanjay Dasverma, who represents the area, refutes this allegation. "There is no vote-bank politicking in my constituency. I always try to keep the constituency above these issues," he says.

But the board outside the temple proves that there is little political will in undoing the wrongs inflicted here - or in challenging archaic and illegal conventions rooted in the caste system. A young couple in their wedding finery crouches outside the temple, seeking the Goddess' blessings, forbidden from drawing any closer. Nobody blinks.

Dalits punished for entering temple: Government steps in

Why Did Saudi Arabia Ban Saudi Arabian Males From Marrying Women From Bangladesh, Pakistan, African Country Chad and Myanmar? - Quora

Zafar ul Haq, rebel with a cause.
4 upvotes by Quora User, Divya Krishnakumar, Clifford Meyer, (more)

I could think of following reasons:
1. First one is definitely the issue with very high rate of dowry demanded by females and their family. But the truth is , we can't actually blame them for it particularly because the rate of divorce in Saudi is very high and also polygamous marriages usually means neglect of their interests. So dowry is a type of security considering there is no maintenance given after divorce.
I have read about issue of very high dowry rates and difficulty in marriages in many papers across gulf including Khaleej times and all.

The dowry rate has driven them to look for cheaper options. But then its very weird to single out these countries. It doesn't explain much and is very random. This leads to my second point,

2. Inherent racial prejudice of Arabs: I have lived for a couple of years in Gulf and do know that there exist an unofficial hierarchy of class of people and one thing for sure, these countries figure at the bottom. So could it be to out of elitist and racial prejudice. But then again it doesn't explain all of it considering these countries citizens share the class status with other countries citizens.

3. To stop trafficking : this one makes more sense than all others. Bangladesh is centre of trafficking in south Asia where women from Nepal, India and Bangladesh are bought and sold world over. Similar is the case in Myanmar. And chad is to Africa what Bangladesh is to south Asia. Pakistan is a nation of displaced population it won't be hard to find women to exploit.
4. Exploitation of domestic workers: we have read about recent deaths of migrants workers in Qatar, exploitation of maids across gulf inside houses.
So yeah there can be host of reasons but I'll go with trafficking and not surprising considering Gulf countries are feeling renewed pressure to bring change in labor laws and stop exploitation of domestic workers.

Saudi Arabian men can't marry women from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Chad and Myanmar - The Times of India


Arab racism against Indians and Pakistanis
Ghaith Abdul-Ahad writes about the plight of South Asian migrant workerstoiling under slave-labour conditions in the building boom in Dubai. As you would expect, Ahad writes sympathetically about their appalling working and living conditions and goes into depressing detail of their perdition.

Then he writes about having dinner at the home of an Arab aquaintance:

One evening in Abu Dhabi, I have dinner with my friend Ali, a charming Iraqi engineer whom I have known for two decades. After the meal, as his wife serves saffron-flavoured tea, he pushes back his chair and lights a cigar. We talk about stock markets, investment and the Middle East, and then the issue of race comes up.

“We will never use the new metro if it’s not segregated,” he tells me, referring to the state-of-the-art underground system being built in neighbouring Dubai. “We will never sit next to Indians and Pakistanis with their smell,” his wife explains.

Not for the first time, I am told that while the immigrant workers are living in appalling conditions, they would be even worse off back home – as if poverty in one place can justify exploitation in the other.

“We need slaves,” my friend says. “We need slaves to build monuments. Look who built the pyramids – they were slaves.”

It would be a mistake to think that Ali’s casual racism towards Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis is unique or particular to one person in Dubai; if anything racism against South and South East Asians is not only widespread across the Middle East, it is institutionalised.


PS: More over, you are just deviating from topic. Kindly give us details of temples and their list , which are demolished in Pakistan. I guess, there is no list because Military does not want any proof that any temple existed where it has been demolished.

 

[syedali73]

So you are bothered about Temples u have not seen yet Dalits are not allowed in temples u visit?

and you supported it

Not then but now I do.

No temple entry for dalits in Gujarat

AHMEDABAD: Sunday was Dr B R Ambedkar's death anniversary, 'Nirwan Diwas' as Dalits call it. And we hate to be doing this. But the bubble of a Vibrant Gujarat needs a prick in the bottom. At the lowest level of the society, Gujarat is not happy. Untouchability still exists in various forms in Gujarat.

In a first-of-its-kind study on a large scale, representing 98,000 Dalits across 1,655 villages in Gujarat. it comes out that 97 % respondents feel they have 'no entry' at certain places in their own villages, including a temple or where a religious ceremony is taking place.

Mahatma Gandhi himself wrote about the problem of untouchability in Gujarat when he set about establishing a base in Ahmedabad. He said in his writings that when he insisted on keeping a Dalit ('Harijan' as he insisted on calling them) in his ashram here, people started shying away. Even sponsors developed cold feet and funds started drying up. Bapu put his foot down and had his way.

No temple entry for dalits in Gujarat - The Times of India

Dalits’ temple entry campaign launched

Kadenahalli in Mulbagal taluk, a remote village 50 km from district headquarter Kolar, on Sunday became witness to a Dalits’ temple entry campaign.

Organised by the Dalitara Grihapravesha Rajya Samiti under the slogan ‘Our march toward untouchability-free India’, a large number of people from scheduled caste, including women, entered Sri Chowdeshwari temple under Muzrai and Religious Endowment Department in the presence of a number of officials including Deputy Commissioner, K.V. Trilokchandra.

Retired principal secretary, P.N. Srinivasachary and former judge of Karnataka High Court, H.N. Nagamohandas are the dignitaries among others who witnessed the event.

75-year-old Narayanamma, who was among the people who entered the village temple for the first time in her life, expressed happiness about the development.

“Earlier we were not being invited into the temple. Now with Deputy Commissioner issuing the order (following efforts of the committee) we are able to get the darshan of the diety”, Ms. Narayanamma told The Hindu.

“We now had the feeling that all of us are equal”, she said.

Vinoda and Somashekhar, who are in their twenties, shared similar sentiments.

Ms. Narayanamma, a bhajana and kolata artist, however, said that the temple-entry alone cannot solve the problem. “We are eking out a meagre livelihood by singing bhajans and performing kolata. The government should come to provide more facilities to poor artists like us”, she said.

Change of heart necessary

Delivering a special lecture on the occasion, justice Das regretted that despite making great achievements in the field of science and development, the curse of untouchability still persists. Laws alone cannot eradicate social evils such as untouchability and casteism.

Change of heart among people is needed to bring social transformation, he said. Education and scientific temperament are the two ingredients necessary to materialise the dreams of great thinkers like Buddha and Basava as well as the ideals of freedom movement of the country, he added.

Committee founder, G. Shivappa, District Social Welfare Officer Shivakumar, Mulbagal tahsildar Gangappa, CPI(M) district unit secretary Gandhinagar Narayanaswamy, DSS leader T. Vijaykumar participated among others.

Dalits’ temple entry campaign launched - The Hindu

Blot on Modi’s Gujarat: Dalits still not allowed entry into temples

Ahmedabad: Even as Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi goes on showcasing his state as a case study in development, the centuries-old evil practice of not allowing dalits to enter temples still plagues a village – not even a hundred kilometres from his office.


Around 100 dalit families of Galsana village in Dhandhuka taluka are testimony to the backwardness that still prevails in the state in many areas of social life. For Dalit families of Galsana, untouchability is a daily reality as forward caste members of the village do not allow them to enter the premises of village temples.

The village, incidentally, has five temples, including a Swaminarayan temple, and Dalits have never stepped inside any of them.

However, on February 4, four Dalit families decided to enter the premises of the Swaminarayan temple and asked for police protection for the same. They chose that day as the village had planned pran-pratishthan of Lord Swaminarayan after the reconstruction of the 22-year-old temple located in the middle of the village.

The invitations sent out for the event were the last straw for the Dalits as the temple management had made separate seating arrangements for Scheduled Caste people at the mass feast.

What police say

“There is complete peace in the area. If dalits want to go and visit the temple, we will provide them security,” said DJ Vaghela, deputy superintendent of police, Ahmedabad (rural). But he too said that it was the dalits who didn’t want to visit the temples.

Blot on Modi’s Gujarat: Dalits still not allowed entry into temples - daily.bhaskar.com

 

[vegav]

We don't even care about you or your country or your evidences.

on the contrary,u care only about india,cuz without india there is no identity for pak.

 

[Screambowl]

Not then but now I do.

No temple entry for dalits in Gujarat

AHMEDABAD: Sunday was Dr B R Ambedkar's death anniversary, 'Nirwan Diwas' as Dalits call it. And we hate to be doing this. But the bubble of a Vibrant Gujarat needs a prick in the bottom. At the lowest level of the society, Gujarat is not happy. Untouchability still exists in various forms in Gujarat.

In a first-of-its-kind study on a large scale, representing 98,000 Dalits across 1,655 villages in Gujarat. it comes out that 97 % respondents feel they have 'no entry' at certain places in their own villages, including a temple or where a religious ceremony is taking place.

Mahatma Gandhi himself wrote about the problem of untouchability in Gujarat when he set about establishing a base in Ahmedabad. He said in his writings that when he insisted on keeping a Dalit ('Harijan' as he insisted on calling them) in his ashram here, people started shying away. Even sponsors developed cold feet and funds started drying up. Bapu put his foot down and had his way.

No temple entry for dalits in Gujarat - The Times of India

Dalits’ temple entry campaign launched

Kadenahalli in Mulbagal taluk, a remote village 50 km from district headquarter Kolar, on Sunday became witness to a Dalits’ temple entry campaign.

Organised by the Dalitara Grihapravesha Rajya Samiti under the slogan ‘Our march toward untouchability-free India’, a large number of people from scheduled caste, including women, entered Sri Chowdeshwari temple under Muzrai and Religious Endowment Department in the presence of a number of officials including Deputy Commissioner, K.V. Trilokchandra.

Retired principal secretary, P.N. Srinivasachary and former judge of Karnataka High Court, H.N. Nagamohandas are the dignitaries among others who witnessed the event.

75-year-old Narayanamma, who was among the people who entered the village temple for the first time in her life, expressed happiness about the development.

“Earlier we were not being invited into the temple. Now with Deputy Commissioner issuing the order (following efforts of the committee) we are able to get the darshan of the diety”, Ms. Narayanamma told The Hindu.

“We now had the feeling that all of us are equal”, she said.

Vinoda and Somashekhar, who are in their twenties, shared similar sentiments.

Ms. Narayanamma, a bhajana and kolata artist, however, said that the temple-entry alone cannot solve the problem. “We are eking out a meagre livelihood by singing bhajans and performing kolata. The government should come to provide more facilities to poor artists like us”, she said.

Change of heart necessary

Delivering a special lecture on the occasion, justice Das regretted that despite making great achievements in the field of science and development, the curse of untouchability still persists. Laws alone cannot eradicate social evils such as untouchability and casteism.

Change of heart among people is needed to bring social transformation, he said. Education and scientific temperament are the two ingredients necessary to materialise the dreams of great thinkers like Buddha and Basava as well as the ideals of freedom movement of the country, he added.

Committee founder, G. Shivappa, District Social Welfare Officer Shivakumar, Mulbagal tahsildar Gangappa, CPI(M) district unit secretary Gandhinagar Narayanaswamy, DSS leader T. Vijaykumar participated among others.

Dalits’ temple entry campaign launched - The Hindu

Blot on Modi’s Gujarat: Dalits still not allowed entry into temples

Ahmedabad: Even as Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi goes on showcasing his state as a case study in development, the centuries-old evil practice of not allowing dalits to enter temples still plagues a village – not even a hundred kilometres from his office.


Around 100 dalit families of Galsana village in Dhandhuka taluka are testimony to the backwardness that still prevails in the state in many areas of social life. For Dalit families of Galsana, untouchability is a daily reality as forward caste members of the village do not allow them to enter the premises of village temples.

The village, incidentally, has five temples, including a Swaminarayan temple, and Dalits have never stepped inside any of them.

However, on February 4, four Dalit families decided to enter the premises of the Swaminarayan temple and asked for police protection for the same. They chose that day as the village had planned pran-pratishthan of Lord Swaminarayan after the reconstruction of the 22-year-old temple located in the middle of the village.

The invitations sent out for the event were the last straw for the Dalits as the temple management had made separate seating arrangements for Scheduled Caste people at the mass feast.

What police say

“There is complete peace in the area. If dalits want to go and visit the temple, we will provide them security,” said DJ Vaghela, deputy superintendent of police, Ahmedabad (rural). But he too said that it was the dalits who didn’t want to visit the temples.

Blot on Modi’s Gujarat: Dalits still not allowed entry into temples - daily.bhaskar.com

How does this relate to demolishing temples in Pakistan? lol

 

[Sine Nomine]

@Oscar @Horus @waz Request; please cleanup this thread from unnecessary discussions this topic can never be understood because Indians are key stroking across the border.

 

[vegav]

@WebMaster Sir there really should be a blanket ban on such subjects. If we can't discuss the "Barnabas Gospel" without people bitching and moaning then the same should apply here. Also I am utterly disgusted at posts on page 1 and 2 of this thread. Just showing the xenophobic nature of Indians, so apparently these web warriors are qualified to say that all muslims don't respect their heritage. What hogwash!

Thank god for Jinnah, Thank god for Pakistan!

and what are you? real warrior?

same here, thank god for jinnah,great riddance.

 

[syedali73]

How does this relate to demolishing temples in Pakistan? lol

Don't know. You tell me? I was only replying to your message.

 

[Screambowl]

@Oscar @Horus @waz Request; please cleanup this thread from unnecessary discussions this topic can never be understood because Indians are key stroking across the border.

We have learnt to counter, the aggressive tactics of Pakistan. Do all atrocities, and deny it!

 

[unbiasedopinion]

Where it is? I am looking forward for a list that you'll provide to me on the demolished Hindu heritage in Pakistan. Waiting.

I am not destructive in nature like you. I have forwarded the list of Muslim heritage protected by India. Kindly forward the protected Hindu monuments in Pakistan. If that is hard to get you can work on the non-Islamic monuments.

 

[vegav]

In fact, I came to understand the meaning of the two nation theory and blessing of Pakistan once I left the country and interacted first hand with Indians. This much hate and disgust? I could never realize when in Pakistan.

come on,you never studied pak studies?

 

[Screambowl]

Don'tView attachment 190979 know. You tell me? I was only replying to your message.

Troll by some one, countered by me, my countered replied by you... good tactics but caught you!

I have guts to call you back on topic, you kept on discussing off topic

 

[Sine Nomine]

We have learnt to counter, the aggressive tactics of Pakistan. Do all atrocities, and deny it!

Boy take a trip to Pakistan and call anyone on PDF,he will manage your tour to all temples in Pakistan.

 

[doppelganger]

How does this relate to demolishing temples in Pakistan? lol

He has successfully derailed the thread, because he could not handle the truth.

Leave it. The truth is out there.