50 reasons Pakistan needs Musharraf

[Hyde]

Most of the facts are incorrect but i have decided to delete some of them and mention only few as my post length has become horribly too long and its irritating me. It is still too long so you may feel free to ignore it (if you want)

1. Nine world class engineering universities were developed and 18 public universities further developed.

Please name the universities developed by the government and not by the private entities/institutes

3. The IT industry was valued at around $2 billion, including $1 billion in exports and employed around 90,000 professionals.

Yes, but was it not due to the global change/boom in this IT sector? All the IT industries were competing with each other and opening their branches all over the world and all poor countries boomed in IT sector for providing cheaper employment to the western companies and countries like Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and its neighbouring countries all achieved growth in multi folds within a short period of time...........Do you know what we export in IT industry? did we export any hardware/software for $1 billion dollars or what was it? I will be awaiting for your answer before i reply

4. The CNG sector attracted over $70 billion in investment in the past five years and created 45,000 jobs.

Crap........ please provide the source of this information. The author may have meant 70 million dollars instead

5. The telecommunications sector attracted around $10 billion in investments and created over 1.3 million jobs.

Crap again!

There are 5 foreign mobile companies in Pakistan (and not all of them were established during Musharraf's regime)

1) Mobilink
2) Ufone
3) Telenor
4) Warid
5) Zong

and there net worth combined together is no where near 10 billion dollars let alone the investment in Pakistan. (The author may be talking about 10 billion rupees instead)

6. Industrial parks were set up throughout the country for the first time.

Yes Karachi & Lahore~

7. Mega projects such as the Saindak, Rekodiq, marble production, coal production, mining and quarrying were pursued.

Mable production: is taking place decades before Chacha Musharraf's regime

Coal: Is still not being utilized and there is no hope before 2015..... so what Musharraf did? - He brought 3 investers (South Korean, Chinese and World Bank) who all stepped back one by one......

Saindak: Yes it was discovered, we had long discussion on these projects and then one day it was scrapped!
Now on the table once again (only recently) and we have no idea when it will form reality

11. Poverty decreased by 10 per cent.

On the papers yes! - but there has been more suicide attempts than ever before - due to lack of food and hunger

And you haven't mentioned about the inflation rate in Pakistan? that too was highest among the world isn't it?

12. Four dams were built: Mirani, Subakzai, Gomalzam, Khurram, and Tangi,

Yes they did...Welldone!
But also remember these are very small dams....not mega projects like Kalabagh, Tarbela or Bhasha. But yes i give credit to Musharraf for building something

13. Seven motorways were completed or were under construction,

lol lol lol

There are total 5 motorways built in Pakistan. Out of which 1 was operational before Musharraf's era.... Second and 3rd were under construction with major chunk of those motorways constructed before Chacha Musharraf. Remaining 2 were constructed in his regime as planned by the NHA (National Highway Authority).

14. Gwadar, an advanced sea port, was developed,

Yes! - I love Musharraf for this reason

15. 650 kilometres of coastal highways were constructed.

Agreed

16. A historic 100% increase in tax collection (amounting to Rs1 trillion) was observed.

Yes....... But corruption also multiplied in many folds

17. Large scale manufacturing was at a 30-year high, and construction at a 17-year high.

You remember Earthquake incident?.. there was a lot of property damage after Earthquake and all of us witnessed demand of cement in the country. Secondly we had another customer (Afghanistan) who needed cement like never before after the war on terror.... So tons of cement was being exported (legally and illegally) to Afghanistan..... Yes he had contributions towards the growth as he was the president but international donors and peoples in Pakistan while rebuilding their houses played a key part in growth of these sectors.

18. Copper and gold deposits were found in Chagai, worth about $600 million annually if sold.

I don't know about Chagai Gold reserves however i have heard about copper and yes there is an annual budget allotted to discover natural reserves in the country....So i can believe it

19. A new oil refinery with the UAE that could process 300,000 oil barrels a day was established.

300,000 barrels? yaar either he is talking about Khalifa Coastal refinery of 50,000 barrels per day...that was rumoured to be 300,000

or he is talking about TransAsia that was rumoured to be between 250,000 - 400,000 barrels per day..... and later on reported to be 100,000 barrels per day.

Now where the hell is 300,000 barrels of oil refinery?

and for your general knowledge, TransAsia was supposed to be set up in Italy but due to some internal problems of TransAsia company they decided to set up in Pakistan.... keeping Karachi port and China and central asian countries in their mind as the major chunk of this refinery will be exported to above mentioned countries. There was little benefit for the country if they had established in Italy as there were targeting European markets but a change of decision and increasing prices of the oil brought them back to the tables and it was decided to establish this industry in Pakistan to target customers from future Super Power China, Afghanistan, Pakistan and central Asian countries...

20. The industrial sector registered 26 per cent growth.

In 10 years? - not the best in my opinion....If you see the growth of industrial sector in our neighbouring countries for the last 10 years........ they did better job than us

21. The economy was the third fastest growing economy after China and India .

lol...... for 1 year? and that too is rumoured by pro-Musharraf fans when economy reached near 9% for one year. I am yet to read any credible source except bloggers....

22. The Institute of Space Technology was established.

lol lol lol

SUPARCO was established in 1960s

35. The Pakistan economy was worth $ 160 billion in 2007

Obviously man..... We had economy growth in all 6 decades of Pakistan history....So the economy was bound to increase.....We had an economic boom during your favourite General Zia ul Haq as well

So does that make him the best leader?

36. GDP Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) was $ 475.5 billion in 2007

lol............ But all credible sources disagrees unfortunately....

37. The GDP per Capita in 2007 was $ 1000

Then?

39. Exports in 2007were worth $18.5 billion

Yes.... Thank you Musharraf Chachu....

40. Textile exports in 2007 were worth $11.2 billion

But textile always played a big role in country's economy. Go back to 1960s onward....This industry always played a key role towards country's economy. I don't understand the reason why these figures are mentioned here....... All the textile industry owners are unhappy with chacha musharraf for not building electricity plants and damaging this only booming sector of our country.

45. Pakistan development programs in 2007 were valued at Rs520 billion

When a budget is made....obviously money is divided.....i don't understand what kind of facts are these?

46. The Karachi stock exchange in 2007 was $70 billion at 15,000 points

Yes.....But i am a stock trader myself...... Do you know about other stock exchanges of the world? Take an example of Bombay Stock Exchange

48. Pakistan now has a total of 245,682 educational institutions in all categories, including 164,579 in the public sector and 81,103 in the private sector, according to the National Education Census (NEC-2005).

May be

 

[Nagraj]

^^^
Dude which sector??
i'm into Technology!
i trade Communication and software companies mostly .

 

[Hyde]

^^^
Dude which sector??
i'm into Technology!

i think you are talking to me
Well there were couple of sectors in my post...

Cement industries, Telecommunications, Software industry/IT Industry etc

Choose anyone for your answer

PS: I am in IT, Accounting and Economics field

 

[Nagraj]

i think you are talking to me
Well there were couple of sectors in my post...

Cement industries, Telecommunications, Software industry/IT Industry etc

Choose anyone for your answer

PS: I am in IT, Accounting and Economics field

ahhh well yes i am .
never met a pakistani trader will love to talk.

well i am not exactly a trader but sell side equity research analyst
and you mean to say u manage all these sectors awesome yaar......

 

[z9-ec]

Most of the facts are incorrect but i have decided to delete some of them and mention only few as my post length has become horribly too long and its irritating me. It is still too long so you may feel free to ignore it (if you want)

There are 5 foreign mobile companies in Pakistan (and not all of them were established during Musharraf's regime)

1) Mobilink
2) Ufone
3) Telenor
4) Warid
5) Zong

and there net worth combined together is no where near 10 billion dollars let alone the investment in Pakistan. (The author may be talking about 10 billion rupees instead)

Mobile users stood at mere 300,000 in 2000 and now stand at over 90 million users. Thus, creating millions of jobs and FDI as a result.

Mobilink has invested over 3.5 billion
Mobilink Investment to Cross $3.5bn in 2010 | Telecom News Bulletin

China mobile alone spent 1 billion USD well known as Zong and continues to expand.
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=10403887

Pakistan now operates the worlds largest WiMaX network.

There are total 5 motorways built in Pakistan. Out of which 1 was operational before Musharraf's era.... Second and 3rd were under construction with major chunk of those motorways constructed before Chacha Musharraf. Remaining 2 were constructed in his regime as planned by the NHA (National Highway Authority).

Yes! - I love Musharraf for this reason

Bhai, the state had no money to execute and implement these projects, it was under Gen. Musharraf's government the entire project came into existence.

Nawaz Sharif was busy with "Karz utaro mulk bachao" scheme.

Yes....... But corruption also multiplied in many folds

Guess who elected the incumbent government?

Please name the universities developed by the government and not by the private entities/institutes

lol lol lol

SUPARCO was established in 1960s

Institute of Space Technology

A gateway to academic and professional excellence, we welcome you to the Institute of Space Technology - a federally chartered degree awarding Institute established in 2002 under the aegis of PNSA. The programs offered are approved by The Higher Education Commission as well as The Pakistan Engineering Council. IST also offers Linked Graduate Programs in collaboration with foreign universities in a host of disciplines, providing a solution to earn a foreign degree economically.

:::.. Institute of Space Technology ..:::


SUPARCO is not an institute but a federally funded research commission of professionals dedicated and devoted to Space and Upper atmosphere research, it was under Gen. Musharraf's rule when the true stature of this commission was established by the implementation of defunct PAKSAT program followed by PAKSAT 1R program.

Obviously man..... We had economy growth in all 6 decades of Pakistan history....So the economy was bound to increase.....We had an economic boom during your favourite General Zia ul Haq as well

So does that make him the best leader?

Oh really? achieving 7-8% growth is nothing? Further more, people projecting that US aid was behind that growth are blinded by the brainless and biased media. If that were the case, why isn't Zardari able to achieve such growth?


The economy stood at mere 50 billion USD in 1999 look at where we are now. People like you believe the information being fed by brainless nuts.

lol............ But all credible sources disagrees unfortunately....

Then?


Yes.... Thank you Musharraf Chachu....

But textile always played a big role in country's economy. Go back to 1960s onward....This industry always played a key role towards country's economy. I don't understand the reason why these figures are mentioned here....... All the textile industry owners are unhappy with chacha musharraf for not building electricity plants and damaging this only booming sector of our country.


When a budget is made....obviously money is divided.....i don't understand what kind of facts are these?

Yes.....But i am a stock trader myself...... Do you know about other stock exchanges of the world? Take an example of Bombay Stock Exchange


May be

Guess who's LOL'ing now?

 

[Nagraj]

^^^^^
it's an perfect example of how to abuse data to make your point .
sadly i can't even lol at u r post. i see better manipulation of data almost daily.

 

[iioal malik]

Terrorism is a gift to pakistan by mush n it's hundred times better then all the reason which u mentions

 

[T-Faz]

Please name the universities developed by the government and not by the private entities/institutes

There was an unprecedented investment in Pakistan higher education system during Musharraf's time. This was entirely possible because of the environment created by the government of the time. The government set up a Higher Education Commission (HEC), headed by Atta-ur-Rahman was instrumental in getting various organizations and companies to invest in opening high education centers on Pakistan. With Musharraf’s support, annual research funding shot up 474% to 270 million rupees (US$4.5 million in 2002) in the first year alone. This induced confidence in private entities to pursue opening new educational institutes in Pakistan that would be beneficial to the investor and country alike.

Yes, but was it not due to the global change/boom in this IT sector? All the IT industries were competing with each other and opening their branches all over the world and all poor countries boomed in IT sector for providing cheaper employment to the western companies and countries like Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and its neighbouring countries all achieved growth in multi folds within a short period of time...........Do you know what we export in IT industry? did we export any hardware/software for $1 billion dollars or what was it? I will be awaiting for your answer before i reply

Does the government not have a major role in making the country look attractive for investment. Surely the 50+ major IT industries that entered Pakistan during his tenure were lured into Pakistan by the government initiatives. With a number of competitors and the impeding growth it can bring, infrastructure, human capital and fiscal regime play an enabling part.

Read this study to get an understanding of how Musharrafs government took the initiative to increase and develop the non existent IT industry within Pakistan.

http://www.globdev.org/files/proceedings2009/21-FINAL_Baqir-et_al_Evaluating_Government_ICT_2009.pdf

Crap........ please provide the source of this information. The author may have meant 70 million dollars instead

We are the largest CNG user according to the The International Association of Natural Gas Vehicles (IANGV).

Pakistan News Service - PakTribune

As for the $70 Billion figure stated in this article, it is actually Rs70 Billion. This was actually reported in a news article in 2007.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Crap again!

There are 5 foreign mobile companies in Pakistan (and not all of them were established during Musharraf's regime)

1) Mobilink
2) Ufone
3) Telenor
4) Warid
5) Zong

and there net worth combined together is no where near 10 billion dollars let alone the investment in Pakistan. (The author may be talking about 10 billion rupees instead)

Pakistan Telecommunications Authority (PTA) introduced two types of license for ISPs – regional and nationwide, and also exempted them from Central Excise Duty in 2004. During that time, the Pakistani telecom sector has attracted billion of dollars in foreign investments. During 2007-08, the Pakistani Communication sector alone received $ 1.62 billion in Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) – about 30% of the country’s total foreign direct investment.

Pakistan: Birth Of A Telecom Revolution

3

Mable production: is taking place decades before Chacha Musharraf's regime

Coal: Is still not being utilized and there is no hope before 2015..... so what Musharraf did? - He brought 3 investers (South Korean, Chinese and World Bank) who all stepped back one by one......

Saindak: Yes it was discovered, we had long discussion on these projects and then one day it was scrapped!
Now on the table once again (only recently) and we have no idea when it will form reality

The point is absolutely correct and you yourself have given the reasons for it. The point stated that projects were pursued and as you have pointed out, they were pursued.

On the papers yes! - but there has been more suicide attempts than ever before - due to lack of food and hunger

And you haven't mentioned about the inflation rate in Pakistan? that too was highest among the world isn't it?

As you probably know that even with dwindling poverty rates, a high percent still remain in poverty and thus suicides would occur but I would like some source of this higher than usual suicide rate you speak of.

Similarly, even in India inflation remains high because of certain aspects and thus it will only go down after correct measures have been in taken in regards to economic management. For Pakistan, it would take a while for inflation to be controlled and brought down to satisfactory levels.

But also remember these are very small dams....not mega projects like Kalabagh, Tarbela or Bhasha. But yes i give credit to Musharraf for building something

The point is correct.

lol lol lol

There are total 5 motorways built in Pakistan. Out of which 1 was operational before Musharraf's era.... Second and 3rd were under construction with major chunk of those motorways constructed before Chacha Musharraf. Remaining 2 were constructed in his regime as planned by the NHA (National Highway Authority).

You should be aware that following government in our country scrap any projects that are undertaken by the last government, Musharraf never cancelled any such projects but rather continued them. This can partly attribute the projects to his government.

Yes....... But corruption also multiplied in many folds

More money, higher corruption. Its a national past time in our country and thus expected. Mush had a lot of corrupt individuals with him that were a major part of his downfall.

You remember Earthquake incident?.. there was a lot of property damage after Earthquake and all of us witnessed demand of cement in the country. Secondly we had another customer (Afghanistan) who needed cement like never before after the war on terror.... So tons of cement was being exported (legally and illegally) to Afghanistan..... Yes he had contributions towards the growth as he was the president but international donors and peoples in Pakistan while rebuilding their houses played a key part in growth of these sectors.

There was a report on TV the other day that showed many projects that were to be completed after the earthquake either scrapped or uncompleted. You should also look into the various housing projects that were undertaken in Pakistan and the building boom that occurred. Most of it is still underway and thus created a viable increase in the industry. Karachi looks like a city under construction and majority of these projects were initiated during Mush's time.

300,000 barrels? yaar either he is talking about Khalifa Coastal refinery of 50,000 barrels per day...that was rumoured to be 300,000

or he is talking about TransAsia that was rumoured to be between 250,000 - 400,000 barrels per day..... and later on reported to be 100,000 barrels per day.

Now where the hell is 300,000 barrels of oil refinery?

and for your general knowledge, TransAsia was supposed to be set up in Italy but due to some internal problems of TransAsia company they decided to set up in Pakistan.... keeping Karachi port and China and central asian countries in their mind as the major chunk of this refinery will be exported to above mentioned countries. There was little benefit for the country if they had established in Italy as there were targeting European markets but a change of decision and increasing prices of the oil brought them back to the tables and it was decided to establish this industry in Pakistan to target customers from future Super Power China, Afghanistan, Pakistan and central Asian countries...

The KCR had a varying number of barrels reported in many articles. It is the one that is actually being referred to in this article.

Pakistan News Service - PakTribune

In 10 years? - not the best in my opinion....If you see the growth of industrial sector in our neighbouring countries for the last 10 years........ they did better job than us

They sure did but you did not contest the point. Do remember that India initiated its economic development policy in the early 90's. It would be better to compare the 80's of theirs to the 00's of ours.

lol...... for 1 year? and that too is rumoured by pro-Musharraf fans when economy reached near 9% for one year. I am yet to read any credible source except bloggers....

We were listed in the next 11 economies, it did boom though it was more suited for the wealthy and it did attract foreign investment.

Growth was consistently high and it peaked in 2005 with 7.8%.

Pakistan lured $3.5bn FDI in 2006 -DAWN - Business; May 31, 2007

lol lol lol

SUPARCO was established in 1960s

Funny indeed because the Institute of Space Technology (IST) was established in 2002.

Institute of Space Technology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Where did SUPARCO come from?

Obviously man..... We had economy growth in all 6 decades of Pakistan history....So the economy was bound to increase.....We had an economic boom during your favourite General Zia ul Haq as well

So does that make him the best leader?

Yup, economy did well during Zia's time thus the growth of our middle class. As for being the best leader, its not just economy but overall performance and Musharraf fared much better.

lol............ But all credible sources disagrees unfortunately....

Yes, there is a variation but some list it as the given figure for some reason.

Then?

Compare percentage growth to the 90's and then you might find a point.

But textile always played a big role in country's economy. Go back to 1960s onward....This industry always played a key role towards country's economy. I don't understand the reason why these figures are mentioned here....... All the textile industry owners are unhappy with chacha musharraf for not building electricity plants and damaging this only booming sector of our country.

Again the 90's versus Musharrafs era might be good indication on why the point is important.

When a budget is made....obviously money is divided.....i don't understand what kind of facts are these?

It was to point an unprecedented amount in this area which was otherwise lacking over the years.

Yes.....But i am a stock trader myself...... Do you know about other stock exchanges of the world? Take an example of Bombay Stock Exchange

Yes, I am aware of what you said and I know the increment in BSE over the same period. Ours was very low and it was expected for it to increase by such a large margin.

Goodnight.

 

[Patrician]

When he was in uniform you people accused him of manipulating and certain 'misadventures' by the PA, now that he is not, it still pinches you hard down somewhere.

Cool down.

He was, is and always will be accused of initiating a war (Kargil) but it is what he did after the war that I'm talking about.

After the bitter(please do not go off-topic on this) experience of Kargil, when mushy realised that he will not be able to wrest Kashmir from a country much more powerful and bigger than his (at least in conventional military), he started showing flexibility in India/Kashmir policy.

He turned off the tap on infiltration into Kashmir by a large extent, moved forward with MMS on Kashmir so much so that both sides were only inches away from solving Kashmir.

That's why you see Indians' reaction to mushy that you see.

Which state exactly you people are happy in? Kicked, perhaps?

Cmon. You can't provoke me.

 

[darkinsky]

for god sake, musharraf reigned for 10 cosecutive years, and with whim and power, according to american constitution, a man cant be elected more than twice, max is 8-10 years???

musharraf has been once discarded in his own game, rejected and dejected, what more from him??

 

[graphican]

Few dark sides of his tenure are..

1 - The unlawful entry into the governance.
2 - Promised of Accountability as the highest priority but not a single I repeat was held accountable nor penalized for the corruption.
3 - All the National Instutions which were chared by Army personals went down, the report and data got burnd mysteriously.
4 - Country went under heavy loans in-spite of huge aid that came during the catastrophic of earth-quack.
5 - National Interests were put second and EVEN USA admitted Musharaf supported USA going against its National Interest.
6 - Murder of General Mushaf Ali Mir, who refused to let USA use PAF's airbasis.
7 - The ONE Sided agreement with India and a promise that Only Pakistan will not let anybody use its territory against India.. A Strategic Blow to Pakistan.
8 - Musharaf agreed to have DRONES STRIKES in Paksitan and in all the strikes, more than 95% are reported "Suspected Militants".. Insane!
9 - Tried to sell Paksitan Steel Mill for a price which was less than the cost of land alone.
10 - Musharaf Government lifted 1000s of people without any trials and "punished" them before proving them guilty.
11 - Countrymen were sold to America for money.
12 - Kashmir policy was compromised.. Today India is desperate to have same agreements back. Understand who those un-disclosed agreements were favoring.
13 - Most corrupt and dishonest people were put on the key posts.
14 - Under the policy of "Trickle Down", Musharaf made the rich richer and poor poorer, today level of poverty in Pakistan is exceeding 50%! Wonders of Economy was for the favored class of society only.
15 - He brought NRO to the country and forgave all the looters and corrupt crust of the Nation.. without having any legal authority to do so.
16 - Responsible for the Indictment of 12th May and didn't let anybody investigate it either.
17 - Burnt the lowyers alive and didn't let anybody investigae the issue.
18 - Killed Bugti and caused insurgency to flurish in Baluchistan.
19 - Did incident of LAL-MASJID and killed hundreds of kids, girls.
20 - Destroyed the Constitutional Fabric of the Nation and Courts.
21 - Banished Channels and voice of public.
22 - Wheat Crisis.
23 - Electricity Crisis.
24 - Sugar Crisis.
25 - Natural Gas and Crisis.
26 - KILLED Banezir Bhutto.
27 - Brought PPP and ZARDARI in power

100s of events, incidents and parameters are available to see how this guy ruled this Nation. Leave all the incidents aside, Musharaf wouldn't be able to escape curses of one single women, Dr. Afia! Even if she was criminal, she was terrorist, she was worst women of this country, she was daughter of this land. If she was guilty, she must have been tried and punished here, not in the courts of USA or anywhere else.

Like millions of countrymen, I curse him and the clan who destroyed this homeland.

 

[Developereo]

yeah he should have opted for All Pakistan Congress or All Pakistan Hindu League

(I will merge my answer to your other points below.)

Musharraf either believes that Islam has a central role to play in national politics, in which case he is no different than the mullahs, or he believes in the separation of religion and state, in which case the party's name is disingenuous.

So, he is either lying to the moderates or to the religionists. Either way, his credibility is damaged.

Where exactly have you obtained this information that he was effectively going to give away Kashmir to India. There were some ongoing backdoor talks going on which were interrupted with his departure. We have never really heard more of his proposed four points.

I don't have a link but the general view is that he wanted something along the following lines (as discussed here http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...interview-pervez-musharraf-5.html#post1182968)

- LoC becomes 'soft' international border.
- Kashmir gets 'autonomy'.
- Kashmiris can opt to move across border at will.

As I explained in that thread, the autonomy bit is meaningless sugar coating, and the formalization of the LoC as international border means that any Kashmiris stranded on the Indian side have to either shut up or pack up and leave.

India wins and the Kashmiris lose.

Similarly, who exactly did he sold out our airwaves too.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...ng-geo-tv-cnn-affiliate-psy-ops-wing-cia.html

He allowed free and full access to Indian media into Pakistan without demanding reciprocal access for our media.

Anyone who controls information controls a nation. There is a reason Putin clamped down on the media -- it is one of the most potent tools by Western countries to destabilize their opponents. Similarly, there is a reason India doesn't allow Pakistani media onto their airwaves. And why China has strict controls on their media. All these countries are not stupid; they know exactly how much damage an unscrupulous and malicious media can do. Especially one with suspicious ownership links.

Him getting appointed will be the first step towards an end to feudalism. It will be the first time a non feudal/industrialist would be elected by the people. That is what Jana actually meant by her statement.

So what? As I have stated elsewhere, there is an unspoken partnership between the oligarchs (both feudal and industrial) and the military elite. Both sides may make noises and occasionally settle scores against individuals but, as a group, neither side is going to harm the other. They leave each other alone as long as both get to satisfy their interests.

And his audacity to tamper with the judiciary was inexcusable. That alone should be reason enough to bar him for life from any political activity.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

"So what? As I have stated elsewhere, there is an unspoken partnership between the oligarchs (both feudal and industrial) and the military elite. Both sides may make noises and occasionally settle scores against individuals but, as a group, neither side is going to harm the other. They leave each other alone as long as both get to satisfy their interests."

They will pay a very high price!! They have no absolutely no idea about their fate. The question is in years now not in decades!!!

They have no idea about the surprise!!!

 

[Hyde]

Lol i wrote something for 40 minutes and my firefox crashed and all data lost so let me write quickly and may not read again so if you find errors i am sorry in advance. For your record i have said it on many ocassions that Musharraf sahab is nuetral for me... I neither like him nor dislike due to obvious reasons we all aware of.

There was an unprecedented investment in Pakistan higher education system during Musharraf's time. This was entirely possible because of the environment created by the government of the time. The government set up a Higher Education Commission (HEC), headed by Atta-ur-Rahman was instrumental in getting various organizations and companies to invest in opening high education centers on Pakistan. With Musharraf’s support, annual research funding shot up 474% to 270 million rupees (US$4.5 million in 2002) in the first year alone. This induced confidence in private entities to pursue opening new educational institutes in Pakistan that would be beneficial to the investor and country alike.

Yes agreed upto certain extents, But lets not take the credit away from PML-Q and ministers from other respective provinces. One of the reason mentioned in your 50 reasons is that Musharraf established "University of Gujrat" whereas it was a brainchild of Chaudry Parvez Ellahi. You may know very well that the Chaudry brothers belong to Gujrat so in their last tenure they wanted to give something to this city so that they could politicize in their incoming campaigns that they did something for this city just like The Prime Minister of Pakistan "Mr Gilani" is doing for Multan by accelerating the pace work of their ongoing/future projects (Motorways, Gas, Electricity plants etc).

The education standard has undoubtedly has gone up, but that I would say is thanks to Musharraf (only for being president), Parvez Ellahi and the USA for giving aid with strings attached that the aid will be invested in education sector only.....(talking about Punjab Province only as I can't say about other provinces for now)

Does the government not have a major role in making the country look attractive for investment. Surely the 50+ major IT industries that entered Pakistan during his tenure were lured into Pakistan by the government initiatives. With a number of competitors and the impeding growth it can bring, infrastructure, human capital and fiscal regime play an enabling part.

Yes surely it does!
Both "Laila and Majnu" were looking for each other. The western companies in competition of spreading their businesses all over the world were hoping to attract 180 million peoples of Pakistan... and the government was hoping to bring foreign investors in the country so it was only possible due to mutual consent/understanding by the both respective entities.

We are the largest CNG user according to the The International Association of Natural Gas Vehicles (IANGV).

Pakistan News Service - PakTribune
Actually we are the second largest CNG user after
As for the $70 Billion figure stated in this article, it is actually Rs70 Billion. This was actually reported in a news article in 2007.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Well good to see that you accepted the error in this report as you can see there is a huge difference between 70 billion dollars and 70 billion rupees. So I stand at my point...Crap/poorly written article.

Secondly I am not proud to see Pakistan standing at Number 1 for CNG users as we are way below the chart in production of CNG. So we are heavily relying on petroleum products that are being imported from other countries and consequently making loss of forex exchange reserves. It is also not good for the environment to use more petroleum products. So I don't think we should be proud to see it standing at number 1

We must try to limit the use of CNG by finding either Green or cheaper alternatives and try to fulfil our demands domestically anyway possible.

Pakistan Telecommunications Authority (PTA) introduced two types of license for ISPs – regional and nationwide, and also exempted them from Central Excise Duty in 2004. During that time, the Pakistani telecom sector has attracted billion of dollars in foreign investments. During 2007-08, the Pakistani Communication sector alone received $ 1.62 billion in Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) – about 30% of the country’s total foreign direct investment.

Pakistan: Birth Of A Telecom Revolution

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Yes i know about these licences but that all together does not make 10 billion dollars worth of foreign investment for the whole Musharraf's regime

The point is absolutely correct and you yourself have given the reasons for it. The point stated that projects were pursued and as you have pointed out, they were pursued.

Pursuing is not enough T-Faz Sir,
We need to implement these projects and reap the fruitful results. Lets alienate the marble industry as it was well established before Musharraf's era in NWFP (K-P) of Pakistan.

Coal was persuaded but all the major parties stepped back one by one so what really was the outcome of those deals? We had several MoUs (Memorandum of Understanding) every now and than but nothing came out practically. Now we have some investors once again so lets see.... but we are still heavily relying on our local "Sindh" government for at least building some infrastructure. More work needs to be done and it will take another 4-5 years before the work can be initiated on large scale. Had Musharraf's government successfully convinced the investors under his regime we may have been exporting coal by now.

As you probably know that even with dwindling poverty rates, a high percent still remain in poverty and thus suicides would occur but I would like some source of this higher than usual suicide rate you speak of.

Similarly, even in India inflation remains high because of certain aspects and thus it will only go down after correct measures have been in taken in regards to economic management. For Pakistan, it would take a while for inflation to be controlled and brought down to satisfactory levels.

Lets not compare india in this issue as despite that country not able to provide toilets to 630 million peoples of her nation has successfully managed to check inflation and provide basic facilities to its poor peoples up to the root level. Their inflation was much lower than us and yes I agree poor peoples commit suicide which has been the case in past as well but there was never so much inflation that we witnessed in past 10 years. I will post the charts if you insist

If there was a growth, there was an inflation as well. Honestly speaking London is far cheaper than Pakistan nowadays.

You should be aware that following government in our country scrap any projects that are undertaken by the last government, Musharraf never cancelled any such projects but rather continued them. This can partly attribute the projects to his government.

Yes, I have always been insisting that Mr Musharraf was a true nationalist. He was an honest man unlike some other politicians. But unfortunately he found the most corrupt peoples under his regime that is the fact that he had came from the back-door and he needed someone to protect him as a President. So he had to adore (or should i say suffer) the worst political party of Pakistan. That in my opinion is Q-League.

Actually scrapping that deal was a blessing in disguise. The terms set with that Canadian company were idiocy and I literally thanked God after Mr Shaukat Tareen scrapped that project before he resigned. I believe he scrapped only few days before he resigned and now the same company is willing to renegotiate with the government with better terms. I want to mention the reason why it was scrapped but the post has gone too lengthy. I deleted the reason part and if you do not know i will mention in the next post.

There was a report on TV the other day that showed many projects that were to be completed after the earthquake either scrapped or uncompleted. You should also look into the various housing projects that were undertaken in Pakistan and the building boom that occurred. Most of it is still underway and thus created a viable increase in the industry. Karachi looks like a city under construction and majority of these projects were initiated during Mush's time.

Yes true!
Agreed

You see the housing projects, damaged earthquake properties, Afghanistan and new foreign investors brought the cement industry and all those industries that you need to build a house prospered dramatically. So the credit goes to everybody including the Nature & Musharraf

They sure did but you did not contest the point. Do remember that India initiated its economic development policy in the early 90's. It would be better to compare the 80's of theirs to the 00's of ours.

lol why compare 80s of India? because Pakistan was sitting on the lap of USA being blessed with Economic aid and India was alienated due to Afghan war as its major ally USSR was being crushed by the rest of the World. The right way to compare both countries is to find the right/same era.

Compare India with 00s and India won,

Compare India with 90s and you see we had sanctions of the USA (Presslar ammendment etc) meanwhile Indian industries were upheld by their local industrialists and the support of the government.

The only era we economically performed better than India is the 60s & 80s

We were listed in the next 11 economies, it did boom though it was more suited for the wealthy and it did attract foreign investment.

Growth was consistently high and it peaked in 2005 with 7.8%.

Pakistan lured $3.5bn FDI in 2006 -DAWN - Business; May 31, 2007

Yes we were!
But was it not only for one year? Musharraf was in power for 10 years right?

Yup, economy did well during Zia's time thus the growth of our middle class. As for being the best leader, its not just economy but overall performance and Musharraf fared much better.

Yes, there is a variation but some list it as the given figure for some reason.

Yes you are right, Its not about Economy
Musharraf came from the back-door by over-throwing a democratic government (good government or bad doesn't matter here). Changed the whole constitution to protect himself, Suspension, Reinstatement, Suspension again of the Judges and made judiciary a Joke and humiliated the name of Pakistan worldwide, Emergency Declared, one of the biggest corruption in Pakistan's history (in Steel Industry) etc. All this also happened in the same Musharraf's era

I would say he mishandled the Talibans and the increase of suicide attacks was also a failure of his government. There was no/hardly any suicide attack before 9/11 so if he had properly managed the whole scene. We may have saved a lot of lives in Pakistan. The peoples of Pakistan are may be stupid, but they could have been educated way before these regular suicide attacks started happening.

Compare percentage growth to the 90's and then you might find a point.

Again the 90's versus Musharrafs era might be good indication on why the point is important.

Yes but not to forget we were also under sanctions comparing to Musharraf's era when the sanctions were lifted and he enjoyed Aid from the international communities/countries.

Yes, I am aware of what you said and I know the increment in BSE over the same period. Ours was very low and it was expected for it to increase by such a large margin.

Goodnight.

Yes, thanks!

 

[Hyde]

The economy stood at mere 50 billion USD in 1999 look at where we are now. People like you believe the information being fed by brainless nuts.

Most of the sources you mentioned are from blogs and blogs are never a credible source. Yes there has been a boom in Telecommunication sector and I never denied that. But technically you cannot give the whole credit to Musharraf saab. I will reply to your post in detail if you can give me the answer of only 1 question.

You said above our economy stood at mere 50 billion dollars USD in 1999. Prove it from the credible source (and not Blogs or wikipedia kind of websites) or stay away from this discussion.