31 killed as militants attack Pakistan army checkpost

[muse]

Yaraa think expediently; such heavy handedness is the reason why they've fought the Americans for the 13 years & the reason why a puritanical Islamist militant movement (the Taliban) metamorphed into something that started carrying with it the association of 'Pashtun Nationalism'; we must be smart in our approach otherwise these areas would be destabilized for years to come & giving them an ultimatum explicitly or implicitly so would bring us & them to terrible ruin.

Armstrong:

One of the biggest problems in Pakistan, is that we are selective in our application of laws - we must avoid that at all cost.

"Pashtun Nationalism" is a constant bogey man for Pakistani security managers - there is no substance to this so called "nationalism" I've been on both sides of the border and while language may carry you for a while, the sides are "local" in their concerns -- In another post on "India Irked" thread, I suggested that Pakistan cannot forever kick the can down the road, that it's day of reckoning must be faced - I'm serious, it's win Pakistan or lose Pakistan, this has been what was on the cards since Nawaz and it's still the same, all we too is push it one day back, but it has to be faced.

Do we have a full scale national insurgency? No we don't - instead we have several minor insurgencies, which whether you believe or not, or own forces have amplified (for their political aspirations) I want to share with you a truth I have learned about insurgency from first hand experience, if there is a bad guy in it, the bad buy in an insurgency is the govt, it is the reason an insurgency exists, but as servants we must follow the law and that the govt.

Look what is that this insurgency wants : They are crystal clear, Shariah - why?? Because they do get from the judiciary what they want - it was the same in Swat - they cannot afford, much less understand the legal system (all praise to the CJP, Hallowed be his astigmatism)

In Balochistan, it is a different matter, actually several different matters.

 

[KS]

Like I said typical behavior of a baniya.

Although I'm not one in real life, I'll take that as a complement..who wouldnt want to be associated with the Mittals and Bhartis and all those multi-billionaire guys ?

And the latter is in the two extremes when it comes to "voicing" Balochistan.
Either you have extreme anti-Pakistani sentiment.. or blind faith... then there is the general pulse which is now detached from the vision of Pakistan.

Honestly given that Baloch constitute about 6 or 7% of the total population, their sentiments, whatever that might be, will not have much effect on the integrity of Pakistan. Its the Pathans you guys should be worried about.

 

[KingMamba]

@Hyperion : If I were to want to walk into the Tribal Areas right now...would I be allowed to ?

Luffy told me that not being to go to tribal belts for punjabis is misconception and that because of Pashtun code of welcoming guests they would not object to punjabis coming to visit. He even said there are punjabis living in tribal areas.

 

[Hyperion]

Yups he is right. Not just Punjabis, any citizen of Pakistan can walk in free. It's the Government which may somehow end-up stopping you.

Luffy told me that not being to go to tribal belts for punjabis is misconception and that because of Pashtun code of welcoming guests they would not object to punjabis coming to visit. He even said there are punjabis living in tribal areas.

 

[KingMamba]

Although I'm not one in real life, I'll take that as a complement..who wouldnt want to be associated with the Mittals and Bhartis and all those multi-billionaire guys ?



Honestly given that Baloch constitute about 6 or 7% of the total population, their sentiments, whatever that might be, will not have much effect on the integrity of Pakistan. Its the Pathans you guys should be worried about.

That is why Baniyas have a lot of money because they can smartly play people against one another and aquire some benefit out of it. So yeah it really isn't an insult unless you take it as such. Basically I just said you know how to turn peoples screws, I saw how you made luffy fight I think Haviz on a different thread. It was well played on your part.

Are there a lot of Baniyas caste Indians?? If they are all rich there wouldn't be too many of them or would they??

 

[Hyperion]

And you continue!

That is why Baniyas have a lot of money because they can smartly play people against one another and aquire some benefit out of it. So yeah it really isn't an insult unless you take it as such. Basically I just said you know how to turn peoples screws, I saw how you made luffy fight I think Haviz on a different thread. It was well played on your part.

Are there a lot of Baniyas caste Indians?? If they are all rich there wouldn't be too many of them or would they??

 

[KRAIT]

@KingMamba93 The reality of India is still together is that people are more adjusting. Thanks to Muslim invaders, one of the good thing they did is that it made Indians more adaptable to other religion and when Britishers came, Indians again got adapted to Christianity, Western thought process and good thing about West.

Its a common notion in India particularly the educated class is learn what's good in others. Ignore their negativity.

If you look at India, you will see how people used Britishers Divide and Rule policy for their own benefit and many times for nation's benefit.

 

[KS]

That is why Baniyas have a lot of money because they can smartly play people against one another and aquire some benefit out of it. So yeah it really isn't an insult unless you take it as such. Basically I just said you know how to turn peoples screws, I saw how you made luffy fight I think Haviz on a different thread. It was well played on your part.

yeesh..get off that insecurity train dude. They both have a 'history' far before me which basically started with, I believe, Havi abusing Luffy for having a sense of attachment with Afghanistan. Its like you getting pissed off because some random caucasian starts abusing you for sympathising with Pakistan and advising you to be a good american and sympathize with America alone.

Anyway if what you say is true..that a random Indian on internet can make two Pakistanis fight against each other, then the pakistani sense of nationhood is screwed up. Dont blame me.

 

[KingMamba]

And you continue!

I did not call him a baniya again, that was actual curiousity......

NVM it was off topic anyway, don't bother to respond @ks.

yeesh..get off that insecurity train dude. They both have a 'history' far before me.

Anyway if what you say is true..that a random Indian on internet can make two Pakistanis fight against each other, then the pakistani sense of nationhood is screwed up. Dont blame me.

Yeah they have history but you never hold back from playing devil advocate. Anyway carry on dude those who see your trollish behavior know what I am talking about.

 

[Armstrong]

Armstrong:

One of the biggest problems in Pakistan, is that we are selective in our application of laws - we must avoid that at all cost.

"Pashtun Nationalism" is a constant bogey man for Pakistani security managers - there is no substance to this so called "nationalism" I've been on both sides of the border and while language may carry you for a while, the sides are "local" in their concerns -- In another post on "India Irked" thread, I suggested that Pakistan cannot forever kick the can down the road, that it's day of reckoning must be faced - I'm serious, it's win Pakistan or lose Pakistan, this has been what was on the cards since Nawaz and it's still the same, all we too is push it one day back, but it has to be faced.

Do we have a full scale national insurgency? No we don't - instead we have several minor insurgencies, which whether you believe or not, or own forces have amplified (for their political aspirations) I want to share with you a truth I have learned about insurgency from first hand experience, if there is a bad guy in it, the bad buy in an insurgency is the govt, it is the reason an insurgency exists, but as servants we must follow the law and that the govt.

Look what is that this insurgency wants : They are crystal clear, Shariah - why?? Because they do get from the judiciary what they want - it was the same in Swat - they cannot afford, much less understand the legal system (all praise to the CJP, Hallowed be his astigmatism)

In Balochistan, it is a different matter, actually several different matters.

No I still reiterate the Pashtun Nationalism bit but not in the manner of speaking that the ANP or the Pukhtoonkhwa Mili Awami Party may talk about but in the case of how the ANA is infested by ex-Northern Alliance guys to the point where its probably the Northern Alliance with a massive face-lift; thats where the Pashtun Nationalism comes in - Its us against them Farsibans once more. Secondly in many ways Pashtuns & Afghans are entwined with each other & thats precisely why they'd spar out with each other in times of peace but would watch each other's backs whenever an Invaders comes; well this time around its the United States just like it was the USSR the last time around.

We must try to understand Pashtun Nationalism in this context & must appreciate that most of the people who are aligned with the Taliban, including many of their foot soldiers, are probably not ideologically motivated religious nut-jobs but people who remember what the Northern Alliance did in the '90s against the Pashtuns & feel how their own brethren are being slaughtered by the ANA alongside the new invader; hence why the Taliban had a resurgence in the mid 2000s.

Thats the only Nationalism bit I was alluding too.

On to your second point - I agree ! Thats the reason why, whereas the rest of the country has been enjoying or at least theoretically being enjoying, the right to vote since the beginning, the people of the Tribal Areas only got this right in the early to mid '90s after a proper bleeding in period. And their reservations about the present Judicial Structure of Pakistan are not without cause because its these same Tribal Areas that were, for much part of our history, remarkably crime free. Plus the Jirga System is something that they can understand & appreciate exponentially more so than Parliamentary Democratic Process & the Institutions that comes with it.

Therefore I believe that any attempt to be forceful in bringing the Tribal Areas on par with the rest of the country would be chronically counter-productive because any such attempt would be viewed, most certainly, as an imposition. What we should be striving for is, instead, an organic change that is driven by the will & wants of the Tribal People; recognize their red-lines, their cultural sensibilities & the dynamics of their areas & the life they spend therein & so approach them as friends, as their own instead of the heavy handed approach that most of our Bureaucracy has a tendency of doing whereby they Civil Servants come across as anything but the Servants of the People & more like our rulers to educated us mere savages in the workings of the modern state.

Right now, I think, we're making a huge mistake because the Pakistan Army is failing terribly on the People-to-People & the PR front.

 

[KingMamba]

@KingMamba93 The reality of India is still together is that people are more adjusting. Thanks to Muslim invaders, one of the good thing they did is that it made Indians more adaptable to other religion and when Britishers came, Indians again got adapted to Christianity, Western thought process and good thing about West.

Its a common notion in India particularly the educated class is learn what's good in others. Ignore their negativity.

If you look at India, you will see how people used Britishers Divide and Rule policy for their own benefit and many times for nation's benefit.

Which post of mine is this in reference too?? Or is this just out of the blue?

 

[muse]

My apologies - I had not realized the US context you were referring to - Yes, the who Farsiwan thing - just thinking about the mess makes me feel like Safriz did.

 

[KRAIT]

Which post of mine is this in reference too?? Or is this just out of the blue?

How KS manage to make people fight ? What is Indian mentality.

 

[Masterio92]

@Hyperion : If I were to want to walk into the Tribal Areas right now...would I be allowed to ?

Last time i was .. Army raided a market .. Army personnel asking about mob inbox etc .. one of them ask a doc about a picture .. doc got confuse and dint answer but was let after captain checked the pic.. when the operation finished i came to doc to tease and know which supamodel he had .. upon inquiry and my intention he laughed and said that it was shahid afridi with gun in pic uploaded by his son.. and ironically the soldier had a bigger beard than Afidi

Now coming to tribal areas ? is it big issue..? dude all our Kashmiri brothers doing very well in their sweet bakery business..

 

[Hyperion]

No post. Just trying to give you a few pointers!

Which post of mine is this in reference too?? Or is this just out of the blue?