31 killed as militants attack Pakistan army checkpost

[KingMamba]

@Armstrong first you tell the US that you have a better solution and you want implement it but need drones strikes to stop before you can. Than if they do not agree shoot it down so that atleast on the international scene Pakistanis delegation can argue they have their own solution which reduces both casualties and anger against US. If you just shoot down a drone and have no contingency in place then Pakistan will be butchered on the international stage for stopping the one thing that works (in their opinions of course). It is all about diplomacy first and foremost.

 

[SQ8]

Mullah Nazir from the Wazir tribe

US drone strike kills Pakistan Taliban commander | World news | guardian.co.uk
He is a Pushtoon


Jalaluddin Haqqani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Afghan but most supporters from Pakistani tribal areas....Again Tribal Pushtoon.

Ehsanualla Ehsan..Agian Pakistani tribal Pushtoon..

Sorry i cant turn a blind eye from these facts..

That is a fairly one sided and bigoted view.
It is also these very Tribal people that have suffered the most in the WoT from both sides.
There is no other people.. throughout Pakistan that have suffered the misery that these people have had to take.

To them it has all been suffering..and due to the lack of education which is a governmental policy failure and not of these people they have been swayed by terrorists since they see only suffering(and rightly so) due to Pakistan's entry into this conflict.
It was Pakistan's own fault for keeping these areas in the condition they are in now when much before 9/11 all opportunities existed to bring these areas into the mainstream. But due to the need to breed militant proxies and control Afghanistan these areas were left in this condition.
In addition... there is little to distinguish between a Tribal Pushtoon and others since all that differentiates them is their finances and locale. Tribal ancestry still is an important distinguishing feature for Pushtoons and they are proud to display that heritage.
These very "tribals" also form a large chunk of the Army and hence should in essence be also prone to terrorism where in-fact their units(both in regular and in FC) have suffered severe casualties at the hands of their own brothers and have yet to waver in the face of both ethnic and tribal insults hurled upon them.

Moreover, if the problem is confined to the Tribal areas then why is it that the most dangerous of terrorists such as Omar Saeed Shiekh was actually a Brit Pakistani?
You have gone a bit too emotional in your argument and need to rethink the varying pictures of conflict within the War in Pakistan. Its not a single page nor a single color.

 

[KingMamba]

Yara, I don't like the word "banya", it's derogatory towards an entire faith. I would be much obliged that people don't use it on this forum. I can understand that not everyone would listen, however, I'd be very pleased that you don't use it at-least.

Fair enough.

 

[Safriz]

I will be signing off now..
This country is Fuked up and people are confused as hell...

15 years ago i realized this when i had all the difficulties in traveling due to my green passport to the level of collapse of my livelihood...
All because of deeds of people i don't even know...
I got rid of My Pakistani nationality and took up British Passport and a few others..

To this date i like being called a Pakistani..Proudly wear my Shalwar Qamees and my children know more about Pakistan than many English medium Pakistani Kids..

But i cannot continue relating to a country so astronomically messed up with no hope of coming out of this mess as people are confused about whats right and whats wrong and blame imaginary enemies and protect the very people doing all this...

I rather not be part of this madness..

have fun.

 

[Hyperion]

Mate, nothing wrong with this country. It's made up of people like you and me. Have some faith when we are being tested by the Almighty.

I will be signing off now..
This country is Fuked up and people are confused as hell...

15 years ago i realized this when i had all the difficulties in traveling due to my green passport to the level of collapse of my livelihood...
All because of deeds of people i don't even know...
I got rid of My Pakistani nationality and took up British Passport and a few others..

To this date i like being called a Pakistani..Proudly wear my Shalwar Qamees and my children know more about Pakistan than many English medium Pakistani Kids..

But i cannot continue relating to a country so astronomically messed up with no hope of coming out of this mess as people are confused about whats right and whats wrong and blame imaginary enemies and protect the very people doing all this...

I rather not be part of this madness..

have fun.

 

[KS]

KS, you are one amazing troll. Whenever you smell an iota of discontent amongst us, you come in to finish the job. My hats off to you sir! India should be proud of you. If I were the President of India, I'd bestow Param Vir Chakra onto you for trolling.

Sorry mate, PVC is awarded to martyrs...I'm still living and breathing..

p.s: As I said, in a nation its not always necessary that all citizens would speak in the same voice. You should probably visit some Indian forums to see the level of disagreement we have. This is nothing in comparison. Have some belief in your nation. If some Indian guy on the internet is all it takes to give you guys a sense of disunity, then there is something seriously wrong with the concept of nationhood amongst Pakistanis.

 

[Armstrong]

@Armstrong first you tell the US that you have a better solution and you want implement it but need drones strikes to stop before you can. Than if they do not agree shoot it down so that atleast on the international scene Pakistanis delegation can argue they have their own solution which reduces both casualties and anger against US. If you just shoot down a drone and have no contingency in place then Pakistan will be butchered on the international stage for stopping the one thing that works (in their opinions of course). It is all about diplomacy first and foremost.

Yes but this, unfortunately, is the bitter truth - our interests & their interests haven't coincided by a long-shot ! They're still looking for some sort of a last bravado for face saving whereas Pakistan has been hollering from day 1 - talk to the Taliban.

And when it comes to Diplomacy; Do what India does - a Media frenzy even if the facts are absolutely BS conjectures ! Then do a memorial of sorts for all the fallen innocent civilians with inflated figures of course, the graves, the teary eyed orphans, the documentaries, the articles, interviews & news excerpts in International Press.

A plethora of things can be done if we're willing to get our sh*t together.

 

[SQ8]

You are reading too much into my motives because of your insecurity at seeing pakistanis with differing viewpoints arguing with each other. You cannot tell them to shut up and speak in the same voice, so basically the next Indian who posts in the thread becomes the RAW agent who is creating fitna amongst the Pakistanis. Whether the tribals remain with Pakistan or Afghanistan or independent has no bearing on India. Actually the tribals being with Pakistan is good for India in a sense.

The point I wanted to stress there was - all the tribals are not die-hard Pakistanis as some of you would like to believe nor all of them anti-Pakistan. They just go by their life how they have gone for like ever. Be independent and keep fighting. In 47 it was the danger to Islam and loot that motivated some of them rather any motherland calling as you like to believe. Anyway since you have already descended to the baniya level there is no point trying to reason with you..eh ?

Neither are a lot of other people... and mirror images of such fluctuating levels of loyalties can be found in countries across the region. The issue is not of differring viewpoints.. but of their frequency.
Yes, there will always be a Pashtun Nationalist and a Mohajiristan following. But the frequency of it is much less than what you or any of these anomalies would like to suggest.
Where there is a massive reduction in loyalty or complete antithesis of it is in Balochistan.

 

[Hyperion]

Actually that's not entirely correct. No living person has gotten it yet, that doesn't mean that it can't be given, just like VC!

The Param Vir Chakra (PVC) is India's highest military decoration awarded for the highest degree of valour or self-sacrifice in the presence of the enemy. It can be, and often has been, awarded posthumously.

If you still insist, how does Ashok Chakra sound?

Sorry mate, PVC is awarded to martyrs...I'm still living and breathing..

 

[Armstrong]

@Hyperion : If I were to want to walk into the Tribal Areas right now...would I be allowed to ?

 

[KS]

Neither are a lot of other people... and mirror images of such fluctuating levels of loyalties can be found in countries across the region. The issue is not of differring viewpoints.. but of their frequency.
Yes, there will always be a Pashtun Nationalist and a Mohajiristan following. But the frequency of it is much less than what you or any of these anomalies would like to suggest.
Where there is a massive reduction in loyalty or complete antithesis of it is in Balochistan.

EDIT: Didnt see you were somewhat agreeing with my point.

Where there is a massive reduction in loyalty or complete antithesis of it is in Balochistan.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-pakistan-army-checkpost-9.html#ixzz2JmO7Soti

You mean to say that in Balochistan people are either of the two extremes..totally patriotic or totally against it ? Or you meant any other thing ?

 

[Hyperion]

Mate, you don't trouble me at all. It's some kids on the forum that I'm worried about!

Sorry mate, PVC is awarded to martyrs...I'm still living and breathing..

p.s: As I said, in a nation its not always necessary that all citizens would speak in the same voice. You should probably visit some Indian forums to see the level of disagreement we have. This is nothing in comparison. Have some belief in your nation. If some Indian guy on the internet is all it takes to give you guys a sense of disunity, then there is something seriously wrong with the concept of nationhood amongst Pakistanis.

If there is no PA operation going on, yes!

@Hyperion : If I were to want to walk into the Tribal Areas right now...would I be allowed to ?

 

[KingMamba]

Yes but this, unfortunately, is the bitter truth - our interests & their interests haven't coincided by a long-shot ! They're still looking for some sort of a last bravado for face saving whereas Pakistan has been hollering from day 1 - talk to the Taliban.

And when it comes to Diplomacy; Do what India does - a Media frenzy even if the facts are absolutely BS conjectures ! Then do a memorial of sorts for all the fallen innocent civilians with inflated figures of course, the graves, the teary eyed orphans, the documentaries, the articles, interviews & news excerpts in International Press.

A plethora of things can be done if we're willing to get our sh*t together.

They haven't coincided up to this point but before 2014 comes along Pakistan and US will be back on the same page because the Pakistani solution of talking is the only one which can help US achieve whatever goals they have in Afghanistan before the pullout of troops. That is why Pakistan should play its cards right, like I told you on a different thread India can spend as much as it wants in Afghanistan but Pakistan will always be the one who holds the ace of spades so to speak. Recent news seems to show US foreign policy is giving more room to Pakistan in Afghan peace process and recent election of Kerry to Secretary of State will help this along. Kerry has always been a reasonable democrat when it comes to talks with Pakistan.

 

[SQ8]

I believe you are just reiterating what I said...not all are die-hard Pakistanis nor all of them anti-pakistan. The level of identification with Pakistan varies. I personally believe that the tribals in FATA do not identify that much with Pakistan (or for that matter Afghanistan) than with their own clans/tribes.




You mean to say that in Balochistan people are either of the two extremes..totally patriotic or totally against it ? Or you meant any other thing ?

I would disagree.. I know more than enough of both educated and uneducated people from the Tribal areas to know that the level of loyalty is quite high. However in light of recent events this loyalty has been wavering.

And the latter is in the two extremes when it comes to "voicing" Balochistan.
Either you have extreme anti-Pakistani sentiment.. or blind faith... then there is the general pulse which is now detached from the vision of Pakistan.

 

[KRAIT]

Kindly put yourself in a Tribal's mindset, look from his perception. This will make you see the real problem.

No one is born terrorist. Understand the psyche of Terrorists. What are common attributes of terrorism in a region, in a state, in a country and in world.

Learn from US about how much important is to use Social Engineering and Social Scientists. You would be surprised to know the level of research done on understanding the roots of terrorism. Even data analysis is used extensively.

In a US University, they developed a mechanism to determine the result of US elections by considering Tweeter feeds.

If your leg gets fractured, you don't cut it because it causes pain, you try to fix it by putting cast on it and let the time heal with proper intake of calcium.

The condition in Tribal belt is of fracture, not a rotten leg from Gangrene.