3 martyred while thwarting cross border terrorist attack from Afghanistan at Kharsin Sector

[satyamev]

not one serious analysis here about the reason for the cross border infiltration and attacks.
The Taliban are in full control of Afghanistan. The areas adjoining Pakistan have always been under Afghan Taliban control.
How is this infiltration so regular ?
Pakistan does have serious influence in the Afghan government as seen by your spy chief emerging in kabul the 1st day of the new government. Its a undeniable fact.
Why are the Taliban not taking your security concerns seriously ?
Its not even a odd incidence now but a virtual flood of attacks.
Did Pakistan misinterpret that it was using the Taliban to further its strategic interests in Afghanistan, while factually it was the Taliban who were using Pakistan to get to their goal ? And have now discarded them.
This is a defense forum but no real indepth analysis of why the attacks have increased after the Taliban have come to power.
Remember Afghanistan is a land locked country and is dependent on Pakistan for most of its supplies. Even self preservation dictates that any Afghan government would play nice with Pakistan.

 

[satyamev]

People are in shock, no one was expecting the Taliban to fight TTP for us but no one was expecting this level of impunity either. Sooner or later there will have to be course correction.

its not just impuunity , every armed group needs financing. The basic ground for sustainable operations.
How are these now marginalized groups getting access to finance ?
Food , weapons, explosives, intelligence, etc everything needs money.
A hungry man cant fight for long.

 

[TheSolution]

not one serious analysis here about the reason for the cross border infiltration and attacks.
The Taliban are in full control of Afghanistan. The areas adjoining Pakistan have always been under Afghan Taliban control.
How is this infiltration so regular ?
Pakistan does have serious influence in the Afghan government as seen by your spy chief emerging in kabul the 1st day of the new government. Its a undeniable fact.
Why are the Taliban not taking your security concerns seriously ?
Its not even a odd incidence now but a virtual flood of attacks.
Did Pakistan misinterpret that it was using the Taliban to further its strategic interests in Afghanistan, while factually it was the Taliban who were using Pakistan to get to their goal ? And have now discarded them.
This is a defense forum but no real indepth analysis of why the attacks have increased after the Taliban have come to power.
Remember Afghanistan is a land locked country and is dependent on Pakistan for most of its supplies. Even self preservation dictates that any Afghan government would play nice with Pakistan.

Because it has already been discussed to death, and we know the reason.

The focus here is on long-term solutions for them to comply.

The Taliban are masters at war of attrition, even if it takes them a million years and a billion casualties, they'll keep going.

A deterrence needs to be established that is not simply killing their soldiers, they are expected and prepared for that.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

You are not a Muslim, that's for sure. No Muslim in Ramadan would say what you are saying.

Because ttp and afghan terrorists are such good pious Muslims...........

Because it has already been discussed to death, and we know the reason.

The focus here is on long-term solutions for them to comply.

The Taliban are masters at war of attrition, even if it takes them a million years and a billion casualties, they'll keep going.

A deterrence needs to be established that is not simply killing their soldiers, they are expected and prepared for that.

Strategy is easy. The will for it by the Pakistan establishment is not. We need to help facilitate the forthcoming famine in afghanistan:

Devastated by drought and economic turmoil, many in Afghanistan near starvation

A bitterly cold winter and horrible drought, plus economic turmoil after the Taliban took over, have left millions of Afghans at risk of starvation.

www.google.co.uk

 

[White privilege]

Because ttp and afghan terrorists are such good pious Muslims...........



Strategy is easy. The will for it by the Pakistan establishment is not. We need to help facilitate the forthcoming famine in afghanistan:

Devastated by drought and economic turmoil, many in Afghanistan near starvation

A bitterly cold winter and horrible drought, plus economic turmoil after the Taliban took over, have left millions of Afghans at risk of starvation.

www.google.co.uk

True we must choke Afghanistan, nothing goes in or comes out.No traffic ,no red ,no airline nothing.Unless they behave, they must pay for Pakistani blood with their hunger.

 

[Flight of falcon]

Just wondering if Imran Niazi is interested to go there and fix Afghanistan.

You and your family should be dropped in Afghanistan. Bloody looser sitting outside Pakistan selling fish …

 

[satyamev]

Exactly, these indians think the likes of TTP, BLA, IEA, and other terror/insurgent groups in Pakistan that are fighting against the state actually like hindu mushriks. Indians dont realize that they hate polytheist kaffirs more than anything else. If hypothetically they were to take over Pakistan india would be scared shitless. Thats why I always laugh when I see pajeets saying "wow TTP brave mujahideen" . TTP literally takfirs other muslims to justify killing them, I wonder what they think of idol-worshipping pagans.

we will counsel them to the errors of their ways.
They have reacted very positively to the food aid being supplied by India.
During the cold war , India and usa were at each others throats.
Even the American ambassador in India used to speak in our favor to their establishment.
This really bugged Kissinger and nexon , who were distraught and in their words " we send ambassadors to india and they turn against our foreign interests and start supporting their viewpoint ".

 

[araz]

I want to respond to the final part about blaming the leadership. They’re the leaders of this 500k strong army. However, it’s disheartening to see that our military leadership is engaged on political fronts for personal reasons while our soldiers are mutilated. Which is why the backlash.

Thank you for your response. I will try and answer the post in parts to clear some misconceptions. "Engagement on political front" needs to be qualified. It has been bandied around but now the time has come to break this myth. I would agree that unlike the US, the Pak COAS is much more in the limelight. With regards to the involvement, even the worst critics of the army and other PTIans say that the army withdrew support from the party. Ie they did not offer help in resolving the issue. Fawad Chaudhry's latest statement points to that as well. But I ask you how is not supporting a political party political interference? The army needs to play its role as the guardian of the frontiers of the nation not to prop up a party.
I say this as a die hard supporter of IK.
So this myth is more spewed venom than truth (As I will explain later).

As I remarked in another post, Bajwa was busy meeting Michael Owen to promote football in Pakistan when 14 soldiers were killed in Balochistan. The whole social media was talking about our dead while ISPR was tweeting about Bajwa’s plans for our footbal

A couple of things to clarify. The chief's job is to keep an overall eye on things and devise a strategy for the army to follow, Just like a chief executive. So I do not know what people expect him to do. Start shouting orders to his men and bomb the hell out of that area? Or tear his hair out and rum around the streets shouting expeltives. NO! He will ask for a strategic meeting the army will devise a straregy and deal with the situation. It might take a few days but the army will sort out its response before the dead are burried. Meetings with foreign dignitaries are arranged months in advance and are not cancelled unless there is a national emergency. This was a very unfortunate local event and the relevant senior would deal with it and report back. The chief will make sure that the culprits have been "Bhain di sirried". Sometimes this takes time to gather intelligence and plan action. But believe me the army looks after its own. In short while the event of meeting Michael Owen is unconventional(by Western expectations of the Army chief) it was arranged before that and the chief honoured his commitment. Nothing wrong with that. The ISPR will issue news about the army and intentionally keeps these unfortunate events low key to not demoralize the work force. So it acted as if it was "business as usual". Case in point the destruction of the Erieyes was kept hidden from the public for years till they were repaired

Similarly, today we are calling Formation Commanders meeting over social media tweets by kids but not a single meeting over the escalations on our Western Frontiers. Even today ISPR is telling us about our economic progress in a politically motivated press briefing. NSC (the highest body on security) is becoming a joke and steered politically to satisfy the greed of a few (Including Bajwa).

The trend of criticizing the army is a part of cyberwarfare. Fawad Chaudhry has previously mentioned that 60% of these posts are originating outside of Pakistan and a further 20% by Noonies disguised as Insafians. Social media is a/strong tool and causes strife and demoralisation within the ranks and file of the force as well as Joe public. It cannot be allowed to happen and needs to be countered. The army mindset is new to this form of war and their response is typically cackhanded( so I can pit my hand up and agree with you on that). Not necessarily inappropriate but then army thinking is different to a politicians thinking. This needs to be taken into account.
Re the NSC meeting it was called by the govtt. The chiefs were obliged to attend. The outcome speaks oodles about how much egg landed on the chin of SS. THIS IS NOT AN ARMY ACTION BUT A CORRUPT POLITICAL PLOY TO TRY AND NEGATE A FACT. Blame the bastards in the government for it not the army. The army is doing its job by attending.

How do you expect the public to react to all this? Bajwa meeting veterans and explaining to them how Buzdar was a bad CM is the reason the public is questioning and attacking the leadership.

You have to accept Buzdar was awful as a CM. EVERYONE has been critical but Imran Khan! I dont think that is political but an observation of how the disgruntlement within PTI Punjab started. I dont think it is interference. It was a talk with army veterans some of them his seniors. If he is asked questions he will respond honestly. Dishonesty on a veteran!s forum would have been even more disappointing.
On another note these meetings are not recorded. For someone to authenitically analyze them you would need to know in what context things were said.
A stupid example is the malicious attack on the Quran in that it states " Do not go near prayers". It is totally quoted out of context if done as stated unless you see the whole ayat. " Do not go near the Salah if you are in a state of drunkenness" Then the next question arises from this are you allowed to drink if you are not praying?( the ayat has been partly abrogated due to more direct commands from Allah izza wa Jal prohibiting alcohol) This is why half cocked reports lead to wrong decisions. I would need you to have read the whole transcript before you comment not listen to some reporter who is publishing biased/incomplete news based on half cocked facts. So your research is incomplete for you to comment on the subject.
Everything I have written is with the utmost of respect to you and to your view point. However wrong ideations need to be countered as it leads to a long road of wrong interpretations. If you are interested please read the ayaat revealed by Allah over the "Ifk" of our Mother Ayesha(may Allah be pleased with her). They should form the corner stone of how a muslim reacts to halfcocked incomplete news. Unfortunately we as muslims neither know our deen nor do we try to understand the Quran which leads to a lot of pronblems in our society
Kind regards
A

You are not a Muslim, that's for sure. No Muslim in Ramadan would say what you are saying.

Please do not call someone who takes the name of Allah as a non muslim. It is a serious sin.
A

 

[Falcon34]

When will our army take these fuckers seriously. Khost and kunar need to be bombed mercilessly

 

[ghazi52]

,.,.,.,
Terrorists from inside #Afghanistan across int’l border opened fire on Pakistani troops in area of Dewagar, North #Waziristan District. Our troops responded in a befitting manner. As per credible intelligence due to fire of our troops, terrorists suffered heavy casualties.

However, during fire exchange, Havaldar Taimoor (r/o Jhelum, age 30), Naik Shoaib (r/o Attock, age 38) and Sepoy Saqib Nawaz (r/o Sialkot, age 24), having fought gallantly, embraced shahadat.

 

[Goenitz]

No one doubts the US had the best equipment, planning and training! Is that agreed? Then why could they not prevent ambushes and attacks? Can you ALL answer me that first please.
The COAS is not at fault here. There are complicating factors. Criticism and credit needs to be well directed and be positive to become effective.
The IEA:- A lot has been said against the IEA. Stupidity like displacing them bombing them and God knows what else. The fact is IEA is struggling to maintain internal peace in Afghanistan. There are a lot of reasons. Lack of infrastructure, coordination in a war torn and devastated country. Lack of food and basic amenities in the presence of financial crunch of mammoth proportions. The latter will not allow infrastructure to be built up as that requires money. Top that off with a tribal culture, fierce independence tendencies of the various tribes and local cultural values. The land is barren with no prospect of growing any thing of any consequence other than Poppy. Converting poppy into wheat foelds requires money and incentive and a support structure to keep farmers going while crops grow. If you cannot do that due to lack of funds what do you do? It comes as no surprise that the TTP cannot be controlled by them as it has roots withing the border tribes. How then should we get rid of them. Selective strikes based on info plus food for peace can be tried. That is stop food for 1week for every KNOWN Cross border strike. Will it work? I do not know. However permanent starvation is not the answer and will win us nothing other than bad rep and more agro. Narrative needs building up as well and the policy needs to be ratified and international support sought. We will also need to differentiate between local and cross border terrorism.
If you remove the IEA the hiatus will be filled with something more viscious amd anti Pakistan. What will you do then?
The fence:- The fence is incomplete and significant areas in Baluchistan remains unbuilt. There are various pressures, both internal and external hindering completion. Resolving these issues for locals requires incentives and barter trade agreements and a policy which recognizes the genuine needs of the local population of Baluchistan, where in areas there is abject poverty and lack of resources. Even if you managed to resolve this how will you resolve the issues in Afghanistan where the poverty and desperation is 10 times worse? You can fence the borders but you wont be:able to stop the refugees who will spill over as famine sets in. However the fence needs to be completed to prevent eggress of terrorists as well as ingress. We need to set up barter trade systems for the border areas where both sides can trade in items.
The TTP:- These goons employ classic guerella warfare tactics. The defence against them is difficult as you simply do not have the resources to scan thermally the whole border and have drones flying 24/7 to monitor 2600 Kms border. Then there are internal actors who act for various parties to cause strife. The attacks take place from internally as well as externally. It might seem like a simple task but how do you do it? Where do the resources come from? People want humvees/MRAPS traversing the country left and right but can we actually afford the numbers and do we actually have the infrastructure to run these heavy vehicles across the kutcha areas which is the major brunt of our border?
Of late a lot of you have started blaming everything and anything on the leadership. But how many of you have actually realized what the difficulties in implementing these ideas are. If you sitting in the Comfort of your drawing/bedrooms can think of solutions do you not feel that a tactitian with 30-40 years in the service canNOT think of them as well. So why do you think they cannot be implemented? How do you cater for a 500K force spread across a huge terrain and provide them with cover and MRAPS and thermal imaging and aerial cover 24/7? What are the finances involved and who will pay that bill?
I would auggest the posters to start thinking rather than engaging their fingers before they engage their brains.
A

I agree with you totally. People here act childishly. IEA is struggling to control ISIS-K. They cannot make TTP enemy and be sandwich between them.

Turning Afghanistan into barren and unstable land will harm us most. Evil begets evil. If we turn afghanistan into hell (by snaction, bobardment), no angel is coming out of it but more khawarji.

Pakistan should make new Aghan refugee camps and eradictae previous. Only allow those afghan to live who have complete biometric. Expel the rest if they don't agree. Limit those Afghans to these new camps. Patrol the border with UAVs and have jet UAVs on standby for any attack or hot pursuit.

@PanzerKiel @Counter-Errorist @Irfan Baloch
Is there any chance US wants instable afghanistan to destablise cetral asia? @Paul2 I heard there was a clash between Kazaq and Uygur refugees/settlers in Kazaqistan? There was also a regime change move in Kaziqistan with 'pr-democratic' protests?

Therefore, ruleless Afghanstan can be a problem to Iran, Pakistan, Tajikistan, etc and then to Russia and China.

 

[Zhukov]

I knew there was a strong chance the noose around their necks would have been released by NATO and TTP would be allowed complete freedom to operate in coordination with IEA.

They couldn't care less even after the global fund raiser in the OIC conference.

Pakistan lost $100 billion and reputation because of the Afghans and all they had to do was stop attacking Pakistan and declare peace. That is the demand they can't fulfill, peace.

IEA needs to be given a deadline and refugees deported with a deadline.

If the west can blacklist Russians because of the Ukraine war then so can Pakistan blacklist Afghans. Their funds should also be confiscated and thrown back across the border.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517573262070456321

Then what was the whole point of redeculing USA and the west in Afghanistan. Taking label of terrorist supporters by supporting talibsn if at the end we had to block bycott Taliban ruled afghans?

 

[Paul2]

I agree with you totally. People here act childishly. IEA is struggling to control ISIS-K. They cannot make TTP enemy and be sandwich between them.

Turning Afghanistan into barren and unstable land will harm us most. Evil begets evil. If we turn afghanistan into hell (by snaction, bobardment), no angel is coming out of it but more khawarji.

Pakistan should make new Aghan refugee camps and eradictae previous. Only allow those afghan to live who have complete biometric. Expel the rest if they don't agree. Limit those Afghans to these new camps. Patrol the border with UAVs and have jet UAVs on standby for any attack or hot pursuit.

@PanzerKiel @Counter-Errorist @Irfan Baloch
Is there any chance US wants instable afghanistan to destablise cetral asia? @Paul2 I heard there was a clash between Kazaq and Uygur refugees/settlers in Kazaqistan? There was also a regime change move in Kaziqistan with 'pr-democratic' protests?

Therefore, ruleless Afghanstan can be a problem to Iran, Pakistan, Tajikistan, etc and then to Russia and China.

KZ has more problems on its own than any foreign power can add

 

[Menace2Society]

Then what was the whole point of redeculing USA and the west in Afghanistan. Taking label of terrorist supporters by supporting talibsn if at the end we had to block bycott Taliban ruled afghans?

Exactly, it was a gamble that didn't pay off.

Ironically Northern Alliance seem to have been more pragmatic and consistent than Taliban who are nothing more than illiterate semi conscious tribals. They find it difficult to just run a girls school.

I blame Zia for this mess. The yanks picked whatever to fight the soviets they don't care, Pakistan should have been more careful with their decision.

 

[RescueRanger]

Reading some of the comments in this thread killed a few of my braincells.