'2mn cows smuggled from India every year'

[Indrani]

There have been cases of folks in my own community selling off old cows ( they were really poor though).



This is Racism! The black buffalo does not enjoy the same rights as the white cow!.....wait, they're entirely different species though, aren't they?

When they sell it is usually to other Hindus. Otherwise, there is a social taboo against selling the cows to Muslims or Christians.
There are black, brown, and white cows. All of them get the same place of honor.

 

[janon]

Tiger and Lion eating other animals is dharma. They have to eat those to survive. Humans do not have to eat those to survive. Killing mosquitoes and flies and viruses and bacteria is dharma because our survival is at stake here. Hinduism does not say lay down and die so that only other life survives. Hindu religion does give equal right to all animals. Read manusmriti to know there is penalty for killing even small insignificant animals. Ahimsa is one of the founding principles of Hinduism and it was not taken by Buddhism or Jainism. Your reasoning and logic is faulty.
Rama and Laxmana could have hunted and eaten meat, but then there is no mention of them eating beef. Cow has a legendary place in Hinduism and none of your arguing is going to get that changed.

1) So what if your survival is at stake? According to the poster I was responding to, human life has the same importance as animal life. If that is true, why would I massacre flies and mosquitoes to save little human children? If their rights are equal to ours, as you both say? And why would I give antibiotics to my mother who has TB just to save one life, if in that process I kill millions of germs, each of who's life according to you is equally important as hers?

2) Bears can survive on honey and plants, but they aso eat other animals and humans. Shall we build prisons for such bears?

3) There is no "founding principle of hinduism". You may have been acting as a champion of hinduism on this forum, but do not expect to spoew such nonsense and expect to get away with it. Hinduism does not have central tenets or founding principles.

4) So you are now saying that some animals are more equal than others, since Rama and Lakshmana killed deer but not cows? I bet the deer would have something to say about that.

Yes, cows were given a higher status in Indian society, but that is more of a cultural thing than religious. And even if it were religious, those who do not subscribe to those religious views do not have to follow it. Don't impose your religious dogmas on me.

 

[Maira La]

I don't want to offend Indians, but many of our most delicious dishes are beef based and we can't simply stop eating beef. Is there a way we can import cows legally without hurting the feelings of devout Hindus? After all, we're the ones committing the sin - Indians are simply transferring ownership.

 

[Indischer]

You must keep in mind Nepal has very little land to cultivate food and meat does play a significant role in their diet and I doubt their slaughter of animals is in the proportion to evoke your dismay. In all likelihood those thousands of buffaloes sacrificed during bali are the only meat they eat during the year given how poor they are. Still as that secular Janon quipped, buffaloes do not get the honor of being holy in Hinduism. It being the vehicle of Yama.

Nope. Nepalis LOVE beef momos, and consume them all through the year. And so what if the Buffalo is considered the vehicle of Yama? Yama is still an important God in the Hindu pantheon, and carries the epithet of Dharmaraja, meaning the one who bases his decisions on Dharma and judges people by their Karma. So why not accord his vehicle a similar status as the Cow?

 

[Indrani]

I have nothing against considering the cow as sacred. But what gets to me is the hypocrisy behind it. Should it be stated in some text for us to get our heads out of the sand and see that we're benefiting just as much from buffaloes and goats as we do from our cows? Why restrict ourselves to protecting the cow alone then? Add more animals to the roster and ban all their slaughter!

There is no hypocrisy here. We do not benefit equally from other animals. Buffaloes, you may have a point, most Hindus do not eat any animal larger than a goat. Then again as stated those animals have different significance. The point in Hinduism is to do the least harm. The stress again and again is on vegetarian food which includes all celebrations too. Most of those balis are carry on from older tribal customs and are on wane even in the pockets they exist.

 

[janon]

I don't want to offend Indians, but many of our most delicious dishes are beef based and we can't simply stop eating beef. Is there a way we can import cows legally without hurting the feelings of devout Hindus? After all, we're the ones committing the sin - Indians are simply transferring ownership.

There are plenty of tasty Indian dishes made from cows as well. Especially in the south.

Thattukada Style Beef Curry / Nadan Beef Curry | kurryleaves
http://www.cheenachatti.com/recipe/spicy-beef-roast-recipe/
Beef
Chettinad Beef Curry - Chettinad Beef Curry Recipes, How to make Chettinad Beef Curry
» Overview of the Beef Business in Hyderabad/by Md.Abdul Faheem Qureshi Anveshi – Research Centre for Women's Studies

 

[Indischer]

I don't want to offend Indians, but many of our most delicious dishes are beef based and we can't simply stop eating beef. Is there a way we can import cows legally without hurting the feelings of devout Hindus? After all, we're the ones committing the sin - Indians are simply transferring ownership.

Good point! Especially when all Hindus are destined to HELL-FIRE, no matter what they do.

 

[Sinnerman108]

This is just hurting us.
We worship holy cow. And they are slaughtering it, India government should make a strong law with a strong force to encounter these smugglers.
The greatness of hindu religion is that we think animals have also equal right to live but others are just thinking that they are the GOD of this earth and can kill any animal as they are their slave.
They can not speak the pain that does not mean that they are not the creature of God.
Animals should have equal right to live.
Earth is not for only humans.
Lastly we have sharp brain that make us human
but that does not mean we are superior.

Who created plants ?

How are plants different from animals ?

You are aware of a phenomenon called food chain .. right ?

 

[Indischer]

Who created plants ?

How are plants different from animals ?

You are aware of a phenomenon called food chain .. right ?

The point here is, should we Humans consider ourselves as the alpha-predator, or should we consider ourselves sufficiently sentient enough to empathize with the agony experienced by animals when they're killed, and hence resort to kill those who don't make a fuss about it, a.k.a plants.

 

[Sinnerman108]

The point here is, should we Humans consider ourselves as the alpha-predator, or should we consider ourselves sufficiently sentient enough to empathize with the agony experienced by animals when they're killed, and hence resort to kill those who don't make a fuss about it, a.k.a plants.

I believe predator is one who can manage to be so.

My steak comes from an animal which is very capable of killing me.

Nevertheless ... My question is simple, why such sentiment for animals and none for plants ?
are they too not deprived of life in order to feed humans ?
Don't humans assume an equivalent predatory role in that paradigm too ?

 

[Indrani]

1) So what if your survival is at stake? According to the poster I was responding to, human life has the same importance as animal life. If that is true, why would I massacre flies and mosquitoes to save little human children? If their rights are equal to ours, as you both say? And why would I give antibiotics to my mother who has TB just to save one life, if in that process I kill millions of germs, each of who's life according to you is equally important as hers?

You are given a right to protect yourself. That is dharma. So your argument is foolish. All life on earth is considered sacred. Also as shown by science our survival depends on the survival of all species of animals, so yes all life is sacred is a valid notion and it is from Hinduism you get that. Saving your mother's life is your dharma, the germs will propagate on their own as per their dharma. Their rights are equal to our as long as they are not attacking us. You do not go and simply poison the environment in the hopes of killing all mosquitoes and bacteria. That will produce its own counter affects as you see in bee colony collapse and poisoning of the ground water. Make some valid argument instead of raving.

Bears can survive on honey and plants, but they aso eat other animals and humans. Shall we build prisons for such bears?

Bears eat mostly plant and that is what Hinduism advocates too. Minimal animal protein diet.

There is no "founding principle of hinduism". You may have been acting as a champion of hinduism on this forum, but do not expect to spoew such nonsense and expect to get away with it. Hinduism does not have central tenets or founding principles.

As much as a founding principle as Hinduism can have. In his commentary on the Yoga Sutras, sage Vyasa defines ahimsa as "the absence of injuriousness (anabhidroha) toward all living beings (sarvabhuta) in all respects (sarvatha) and for all times (sarvada)."

So do not go around bullshitting that vegetarianism was taken from Jainism and Buddhism.

So you are now saying that some animals are more equal than others, since Rama and Lakshmana killed deer but not cows? I bet the deer would have something to say about that.

No animals are more equal than others. All life is sacred. We only make the differentiation based on what is most useful to sustain life on earth. In that the cow due to its domestic nature and its use to humans as a farm animal as well as a milk giver must be accorded the gratitude that one cannot a deer. Yeah sure if your deer is plowing the land for you, lugging your cart, and giving you milk, I hope you will repay its hard work by at least not killing it. That is the minimum that human must give back to the animal which helped him so long.

The objective always remains do less harm in the way you live, from your food choices to everything else.

 

[janon]

The point here is, should we Humans consider ourselves as the alpha-predator, or should we consider ourselves sufficiently sentient enough to empathize with the agony experienced by animals when they're killed, and hence resort to kill those who don't make a fuss about it, a.k.a plants.

Humans have had that choice only very recently, after the invention of agriculture about 10,000 years back. It is because of the modern lifestyle, and the overproduction of food, that we can choose to subsist on foodgrains alone. But for hundreds of thousands of years before that, we had no choice but to be hunter gatherers. Our ancestors did not have supermarkets to buy grain from, or even farms to cultivate grain - even that requires reasonably large societies.

So sentience itself did not present such a choice to us - our ancestors 25000 years back in the ice age were as sentient as us. It is only the climatic conditions and social structures of the post neolithic age that affords that choice.

You are given a right to protect yourself. That is dharma. So your argument is foolish. All life on earth is considered sacred. Also as shown by science our survival depends on the survival of all species of animals, so yes all life is sacred is a valid notion and it is from Hinduism you get that. Saving your mother's life is your dharma, the germs will propagate on their own as per their dharma. Their rights are equal to our as long as they are not attacking us. You do not go and simply poison the environment in the hopes of killing all mosquitoes and bacteria. That will produce its own counter affects as you see in bee colony collapse and poisoning of the ground water. Make some valid argument instead of raving.

Oh actually we do. Many municipalities and corporations in India send vehicles spraying poisonous fumes in the entire town, to control mosquitos. In all of North America and western Europe, large scale use of DDT and other pesticides nearly eliminated mosquitos and flies, and that is one of the reasons they enjoy such high public health. Yes, they did it in the 50s.

Sure there may be effects and counter effects, but public health of humans comes first, not the right to life of mosquitos.

 

[Indischer]

I believe predator is one who can manage to be so.

My steak comes from an animal which is very capable of killing me.

Nevertheless ... My question is simple, why such sentiment for animals and none for plants ?
are they too not deprived of life in order to feed humans ?
Don't humans assume an equivalent predatory role in that paradigm too ?

Hypocrisy, thy name is Human.

But what are your views on cannibalism?

 

[janon]

Bears eat mostly plant and that is what Hinduism advocates too. Minimal animal protein diet.

Shifitng goalposts now, are we?

 

[Indrani]

Nope. Nepalis LOVE beef momos, and consume them all through the year. And so what if the Buffalo is considered the vehicle of Yama? Yama is still an important God in the Hindu pantheon, and carries the epithet of Dharmaraja, meaning the one who bases his decisions on Dharma and judges people by their Karma. So why not accord his vehicle a similar status as the Cow?

No one worships Yama. His vehicle is the very carrier of death and can be put to death. Giver of life is different than giver of death. Only in your world may be death is far more important than life or perhaps both are equal.

The argument still holds, Nepal does not have much land for agriculture, on animals they must depend for survival.