27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

[Pakistani Fighter]

It sounds like JF-17s were in the area. I can recall this jet noise from my stay at Kamra and Peshawar.

F-16 has a 'seeti' type of noise which is kind of very much recognizable even from a distance.

Treat to see Mig-21's debris chunks falling off all over the area.

Do you have the knowledge about the crash location of SU 30? I have heard that Intelligence Guys have gotten that information

 

[Sc0lar_Vis@ri]

Are we still beating this dead horse? There is ambiguity on both sides ...India says lost MiG-21 and shot f-16, Pakistan says shot mig-21 (accepted) and also shot su-30 (conjecture). It's over a year, what's the point dwelling on past imaginary glory, and I say this for both sides. Pick up the pieces, move on to the next chapter. And yeah, good to be back from the ban

 

[xeuss]

Indians are the masters of the "both sides" argument

 

[The Eagle]

It sounds like JF-17s were in the area. I can recall this jet noise from my stay at Kamra and Peshawar.

F-16 has a 'seeti' type of noise which is kind of very much recognizable even from a distance.

Treat to see Mig-21's debris chunks falling off all over the area.

You are right about the difference in sounds.
I hear both by the way. Especially the last slow flying-by like sound...

 

[The Accountant]

Are we still beating this dead horse? There is ambiguity on both sides ...India says lost MiG-21 and shot f-16, Pakistan says shot mig-21 (accepted) and also shot su-30 (conjecture). It's over a year, what's the point dwelling on past imaginary glory, and I say this for both sides. Pick up the pieces, move on to the next chapter. And yeah, good to be back from the ban

It is clear by now that no F16s was down. All evidence refuting that are already clear. Furthermore, even Abhinandan has never claimed shooting down F16.

Regarding MKI, its debateable but sooner or later truth will be out. In any case, IAF lost that day at the hand of PAF despite having the advantage of first strike. IAF knew that we were coming it was not a surprise attack still IAF kept off guard

 

[GriffinsRule]

Do 4 H4s and 4 REKs were launched. One H4's video is released. What about other 7 SOWs' video?

According to PAF, 2 H4s and 4 REKs were launched. REKs are just regular bombs with a range extension kits and have not guidance or video link etc. PAF has not shown the 2nd H4 video, because maybe the bomb fell closer to the Indian military target. There is a good reason why Indians have not shown the sites of the bomb blasts either.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

According to PAF, 2 H4s and 4 REKs were launched. REKs are just regular bombs with a range extension kits and have not guidance or video link etc. PAF has not shown the 2nd H4 video, because maybe the bomb fell closer to the Indian military target. There is a good reason why Indians have not shown the sites of the bomb blasts either.

Yeah, DG ISPR did Hinted that one of their Ammo Depot became unusable

 

[Nomad40]

Are we still beating this dead horse? There is ambiguity on both sides ...India says lost MiG-21 and shot f-16, Pakistan says shot mig-21 (accepted) and also shot su-30 (conjecture). It's over a year, what's the point dwelling on past imaginary glory, and I say this for both sides. Pick up the pieces, move on to the next chapter. And yeah, good to be back from the ban

becuz we better than you DEAD SU30 MKI BOI

 

[Sc0lar_Vis@ri]

becuz we better than you DEAD SU30 MKI BOI

Thank you for the welcome, and the meaningless and one-liner post sans-logic.

 

[Nomad40]

Thank you for the welcome, and the meaningless and one-liner post sans-logic.

Dil pe leli?

 

[HarisMalik]

Please don't spam forum with same video on every other thread. We do not allow self promoting content unless, the source is credible and content has the substance/quality to discuss. What you shared is nothing more than piracy of Invincible Resolve documentary.

Hey, first of all, you can not accuse anyone like ...Piracy....? we had already finished recording our DCS scenes a month ago. We had no idea about Invincible Resolve. moreover, our video does not match with what the ministry made their video is more like a motivational movie and our one was educational.

I saw you quoting that somewhere that we had no authentic sources/non-credible / fan-made. please don't judge anyone without knowing anything. You never know who may be (Credible enough) involved in it or not.
fanmade? Did you guess it without even watching a minute? maybe because it was in Urdu...?

If you didn't want it on your forum you could have said it politely instead of degrading our effort and deleting posts by calling them of no value simply you don't know the effort behind recording DCS scenes, Video editing, recording voice.

You had also mentioned if I was self-promoting there is nowhere in the video calling my name in it OR my name is written anywhere in the video.

you also called it Spamming? I shared it only on the reply of this thread and made a new thread in the hope that people will like a different documentary based on scenes from DCS.

And in the end, after deleting my posts you banned me (WITHOUT ANY WARNING).

 

[The Eagle]

Hey, first of all, you can not accuse anyone like ...Piracy....? we had already finished recording our DCS scenes a month ago. We had no idea about Invincible Resolve. moreover, our video does not match with what the ministry made their video is more like a motivational movie and our one was educational.

I saw you quoting that somewhere that we had no authentic sources/non-credible / fan-made. please don't judge anyone without knowing anything. You never know who may be (Credible enough) involved in it or not.
fanmade? Did you guess it without even watching a minute? maybe because it was in Urdu...?

If you didn't want it on your forum you could have said it politely instead of degrading our effort and deleting posts by calling them of no value simply you don't know the effort behind recording DCS scenes, Video editing, recording voice.

You had also mentioned if I was self-promoting there is nowhere in the video calling my name in it OR my name is written anywhere in the video.

you also called it Spamming? I shared it only on the reply of this thread and made a new thread in the hope that people will like a different documentary based on scenes from DCS.

And in the end, after deleting my posts you banned me (WITHOUT ANY WARNING).

We do not ban anyone directly but in-fact unwanted & non credible content is removed with message. We do not encourage some random Youtube channel to post videos continuously. An unknown source video shared continuously is in-fact spamming and self promoting as well. We don't know anything about that channel at all nor that meets Forum guidelines. To update yourself, read Forum Rules and then start posting. Fan made private videos are not credible and not appreciated here.

Fanmade is what everyone calls to some random account... Urdu or not; doesn't matter. A source should be credible like official channel or any credible news site. For us, PDF content is good enough as well beside those credible sources. Yes, these random videos are non credible otherwise, millions of videos will be thrown at the Forum. Urdu is not our official language at the Forum having members from all around the world and not everyone understands Urdu. Abide by the rules and maintain quality. Here is no judging unless you are an official and you will be verified for your claims to call you an official source.

Regards,

 

[Path-Finder]

 

[Trailer23]

Not worth starting up a new Topic & re-discussing the same points all over.

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How the IAF plans to get the edge back from Pakistan on air-to-air strike capability

During the aerial duel between India and Pakistan on 27 February last year, the IAF had felt the chinks in its air-to-air armour with the Pakistanis having had the edge in this sphere.

SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP
9 March, 2020

​

New Delhi: The Indian Air Force (IAF) has initiated the process to acquire and induct the first batch of the indigenous all-weather Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missile – Astra – as it aims to recapture its edge over its Pakistani counterpart in air-to-air capability.

To add to its options, the IAF is also in the process of integrating the Israeli I-Derby Extended Range missile on its frontline fighter aircraft, the Su 30 MKi.

These missiles along with the already inducted MICA medium range BVR, and the long-range Meteor missiles will form the backbone of India’s air-to-air strike capability.

“We have initiated the process to acquire the first batch of the Astra missiles. Since it is indigenous, we will be procuring them in batches,” an IAF officer told ThePrint.

During the aerial duel between India and Pakistan on 27 February last year, the IAF had felt the chinks in its air-to-air armour with the Pakistanis having had the edge in this sphere.

Pakistan’s F16s were armed with the AIM-120 C-5 AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile), which has a higher capability than that of the medium range R-77 used by the Su 30 MKI and the MICA used by the Mirages.

A lost edge

The IAF had the edge over its Pakistani counterpart during the Kargil battle in 1999 but lost it in 2010 when the American AMRAAM was deployed by the latter.

IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhaduria, had on 28 February this year said that the force is looking at regaining the upper hand in air-to-air missile capabilities that was “allowed to slip” amid a “struggle” to acquire missiles in a process that has lasted 15 years.

The IAF chief was referring to the European-manufactured Meteor missiles that have a range of about 150 km. With the missile, an IAF pilot will be able to take out enemy aircraft at a distance of 150 km without even crossing the Indian airspace.

The Meteors have been ordered along with the Rafale fighters. While the first four Rafale fighters will land in India by May, it will take another year or so for them to be fully operationalised.

Only Rafales to have Meteor missiles

While the initial plan was to try and integrate the Meteor missiles on the Mirage 2000, the Su 30 MKI and the Tejas Mark II, the European manufacturer of the missile – MBDA – told the IAF that the French-made Mirage 2000 and the Russian Su 30 MKI are not suitable for the long range missile.

For the Tejas, MBDA said that the missile can be integrated only when the aircraft is equipped with indigenous AESA radar rather than the Israeli one that will be initially used.

Following this, the IAF has decided to restrict the Meteor missile to the Rafale and rely on better versions of Astra and I-Derby for its main firepower.

While the Astra currently has a range of about 100 km, the Israeli I-Derby has about a 60 km range.

“It is also a matter of cost,” a defence source said. “The Meteor is a very expensive missile. Astra, a fine missile, is cheaper by over half the price since it is indigenous. It is expected that future versions of Astra will beat the range of the Meteor itself.”

Another missile which will be part of the IAF firepower is the British Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM). While it is already being integrated with the Anglo-French Jaguar aircraft, the plan is to integrate them on the Su 30 MKI. If successful, this missile will replace the short range R-73 air-to-air missile that is on board the Russian aircraft currently.

https://theprint.in/india/how-the-i...istan-on-air-to-air-strike-capability/377071/

@araz @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Dazzler @fatman17 @Hodor @Imran Khan @Knuckles @Socra @Windjammer
@airomerix @FuturePAF @HawkEye27 @HRK @khanasifm @GriffinsRule @Haris Ali2140 @NA71 @Path-Finder @Signalian @Starlord @Stealth @StormBreaker @Syed Hammad Ahmed @TheTallGuy @ziaulislam @aliyusuf @Ghessan

 

[aliyusuf]

Not worth starting up a new Topic & re-discussing the same points all over.

-------------------------------------------------------

View attachment 612226 ​

How the IAF plans to get the edge back from Pakistan on air-to-air strike capability

During the aerial duel between India and Pakistan on 27 February last year, the IAF had felt the chinks in its air-to-air armour with the Pakistanis having had the edge in this sphere.

SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP
9 March, 2020

​

New Delhi: The Indian Air Force (IAF) has initiated the process to acquire and induct the first batch of the indigenous all-weather Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missile – Astra – as it aims to recapture its edge over its Pakistani counterpart in air-to-air capability.

To add to its options, the IAF is also in the process of integrating the Israeli I-Derby Extended Range missile on its frontline fighter aircraft, the Su 30 MKi.

These missiles along with the already inducted MICA medium range BVR, and the long-range Meteor missiles will form the backbone of India’s air-to-air strike capability.

“We have initiated the process to acquire the first batch of the Astra missiles. Since it is indigenous, we will be procuring them in batches,” an IAF officer told ThePrint.

During the aerial duel between India and Pakistan on 27 February last year, the IAF had felt the chinks in its air-to-air armour with the Pakistanis having had the edge in this sphere.

Pakistan’s F16s were armed with the AIM-120 C-5 AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile), which has a higher capability than that of the medium range R-77 used by the Su 30 MKI and the MICA used by the Mirages.

A lost edge

The IAF had the edge over its Pakistani counterpart during the Kargil battle in 1999 but lost it in 2010 when the American AMRAAM was deployed by the latter.

IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhaduria, had on 28 February this year said that the force is looking at regaining the upper hand in air-to-air missile capabilities that was “allowed to slip” amid a “struggle” to acquire missiles in a process that has lasted 15 years.

The IAF chief was referring to the European-manufactured Meteor missiles that have a range of about 150 km. With the missile, an IAF pilot will be able to take out enemy aircraft at a distance of 150 km without even crossing the Indian airspace.

The Meteors have been ordered along with the Rafale fighters. While the first four Rafale fighters will land in India by May, it will take another year or so for them to be fully operationalised.

Only Rafales to have Meteor missiles

While the initial plan was to try and integrate the Meteor missiles on the Mirage 2000, the Su 30 MKI and the Tejas Mark II, the European manufacturer of the missile – MBDA – told the IAF that the French-made Mirage 2000 and the Russian Su 30 MKI are not suitable for the long range missile.

For the Tejas, MBDA said that the missile can be integrated only when the aircraft is equipped with indigenous AESA radar rather than the Israeli one that will be initially used.

Following this, the IAF has decided to restrict the Meteor missile to the Rafale and rely on better versions of Astra and I-Derby for its main firepower.

While the Astra currently has a range of about 100 km, the Israeli I-Derby has about a 60 km range.

“It is also a matter of cost,” a defence source said. “The Meteor is a very expensive missile. Astra, a fine missile, is cheaper by over half the price since it is indigenous. It is expected that future versions of Astra will beat the range of the Meteor itself.”

Another missile which will be part of the IAF firepower is the British Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM). While it is already being integrated with the Anglo-French Jaguar aircraft, the plan is to integrate them on the Su 30 MKI. If successful, this missile will replace the short range R-73 air-to-air missile that is on board the Russian aircraft currently.

https://theprint.in/india/how-the-i...istan-on-air-to-air-strike-capability/377071/
[/USER]

@StormBreaker @Mangus Ortus Novem
Nothing unexpected nor anything to be worried about.
Neither Astra nor I-Derby ER are bringing anything to the fight to be worried too much about.
Meteor is coming with Rafale, but will be countered by PL-15.

In order for the IAF to get it's edge back, they would have to raise the general caliber of their pilots and planners.

They primarily messed up
1) In honing the skills of their pilots, in spite of having conducted a plethora of exercises with other air forces.
2) Gauging the PAF's capabilities, although PAF's upgrade process was no secret.
3) Got subdued by PAF's response.

Hence, their problems are slightly more deep rooted than being solvable by just acquiring new gadgets and weaponry.

My humble opinion.