27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

[Mig hunter]

Yr it's simple just say that it was F 16 and our neibour can sleep peacefully. They are used to satisfy themselves with bollywood type of stunts. This doesnt show sh*t. Even it can be PS.

 

[Arsalan 345]

@Suriya inconclusive.video is too blurry.also the helicopter looks like either indian dhruv or pakistani bell.from the video, it's difficult to tell which aircraft.

 

[sohailbarki]

Ok , u can dismiss the F-16 shot down part at the outset .

But this is an interesting video , i'm sure not seen by many on PDF .

1. You can see a A2A missile being fired . U also hear a blast while the missile is still in flight .

2. It hits some thing or not ?

3. The wreckage of the downing plane isn't a mig21 . We have see Mig21 coming down videos which is very different from this one .

4. And a rescue chopper flying toward the wreckage .

So the question arises which jet is it ?? Indian or Pakistani ?

@Imran Khan @Windjammer @Areesh @AUz @RIWWIR @MastanKhan @Keysersoze @gambit @Horus @waz @Alternatiiv @airomerix @Arsalan 345

Their is a fundamental problem with this video, In the first half of the video it looks like either dawn or sunset time. In the second half where helicopter appears to be mid day time. In my opinion its a mixture of two different videos at two different times. We all the the Pakistani strike happened at broad day light. So this video is fake.

 

[Telescopic Sight]

3 different clips put together.
Chopper is either a PAF AW139 or an IAF Dhruv.
But the 2nd clip is misunderstood by you. It is a post missile hit jet, falling down from the sky. A mystery indeed, seeing how Indians say this is the PAF jet ( whatever type , F16 or Mirage or FC1 ) and Pakistanis say that this is a Su 30.
But if you hear the language , it is quite clear that this isn't Indian Kashmir.
And let's all ignore the childish poster who cannot identify a burned Russian helicopter despite the video information and calls it a Sukhoi

 

[Thorough Pro]

we don't twist the facts and say what was reality, unlike your false bravado and continuous non-stop lying.

yea like pakistani celebrating 65, 71 and 99 war right ?

 

[SQ8]

yea like pakistani celebrating 65, 71 and 99 war right ?

Definitely 65.. although more shameful is the nation which thinks cornering and beating its neighbors 1/5th its size is some achievement.

Even with 5 times the population, 10 times the landmass and 20 times the economy, India needs to complain once its jets get shot down; talk about fear.

Okay , what i know ..

1. F-16s were firing BVRs from high altitude at max range at below flying MKIs

2. MKI's R-77 couldn't find a firing solution since they were at lower altitude than out ranged f-16 .

3. That's why they tried to evade AMRAAM by diving down the pirpangal range .

4. Had a MKI been hit while diving down , it should been a low altitude kill .

5. It is said that Abhi's mig 21 that sneaked under the pir panjal range and rose up to meet a pair of F-16 when fired his R-73 downing his supposed F-16 kill .

@gambit
sir , can u figure out whose plane wreckage is this from the clip ?

That would make sense if 4 missiles weren’t recovered intact with their warheads.
Abhi is just a clown in your hands now and his dignity as a professional is being raped for PR.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Take it from your own experts, which plane was it

@gambit
sir , can u figure out whose plane wreckage is this seen in the clip and which missile is hitting it ?

Is there another missile hitting the plane not seen in the clip ?

 

[Talon]

 

[Rakesh]

I think you have read the situation incorrectly. IF the 26th strike had hit its mark the 27th strike would also have hit its mark and the damagr cuased would have cascaded into event both parties would not have been able to control.
Regarding the events of the 27th the IAF failed and their confidence got shattered. At least 2 fighters down(personally I think the fighters hit were more than 2). The main problem with the 27th from IAF is that it was a system failure against PAF. Till you get the weaknesses out of the system which means a lot of deep seated changes and upgradation, I feel IAF will not venture out again.
I am not chest thumping but this is how I analyze the situation. I think I am being objective but feel free to discuss further.
A

I am no military expert. But, I think whole Indian defense doctrine is based on an assumption that Pakistan can not sustain prolonged armed conflict and will try to avoid it at all possible cost. They never anticipated (or not prepared) for something like that (27th Feb).
Hence, i always maintain 27th Feb was good for IAF.

 

[Cuirassier]

Odd that they never anticipated something like 27th Feb after doing something like 26th Feb.

I am no military expert. But, I think whole Indian defense doctrine is based on an assumption that Pakistan can not sustain prolonged armed conflict and will try to avoid it at all possible cost. They never anticipated (or not prepared) for something like that (27th Feb).
Hence, i always maintain 27th Feb was good for IAF.

 

[aliyusuf]

I am no military expert. But, I think whole Indian defense doctrine is based on an assumption that Pakistan can not sustain prolonged armed conflict and will try to avoid it at all possible cost. They never anticipated (or not prepared) for something like that (27th Feb).
Hence, i always maintain 27th Feb was good for IAF.

Odd that they never anticipated something like 27th Feb after doing something like 26th Feb.

Actually therein lies the core malaise of the IAF. Their top brass more than their pilots are at fault. It is the job and & duty of the top brass to formulate and devise correct doctrines & strategy. Based on which tactics are developed and assets are acquired & organized. That they didn't see this coming especially after the events of the 26th and were not prepared in general for such a possibility at all, does not bode well for the IAF think tanks as a whole. Especially when the Pakistani PM and DG ISPR categorically had stated earlier that we would retaliate to any aggression. Something tells me that even if they did learn from this mistake, they are set to make new ones (mistakes) if they try to jump the gun again. You cannot change your way of thinking on which your entire careers have been based, overnight, this will take time to rectify. The capacity that the IAF needs to build is not just assets (they have plenty), but how their personnel can make optimum use of their assets to achieve their objectives. Their training and tactics need a thorough review. IAF had BVR way way before than PAF i.e. way more seasoned in using BVRs than the PAF. Yet they couldn't drive that head start and greater experience to a telling advantage on the 27th. Furthermore they had been practicing against F-16s of the Singapore, Korea and UAE air forces for more than a decade now ... yet they get out gunned and out distanced by AMRAAM's (choosing words from Indian media)? Food for thought indeed.

 

[SIPRA]

I am no military expert. But, I think whole Indian defense doctrine is based on an assumption that Pakistan can not sustain prolonged armed conflict and will try to avoid it at all possible cost. They never anticipated (or not prepared) for something like that (27th Feb).
Hence, i always maintain 27th Feb was good for IAF.

I don't get, what you are trying to say. Feb 27 was of course not a prolonged conflict. So, why didn't IA anticipate it?

 

[Keysersoze]

I am no military expert. But, I think whole Indian defense doctrine is based on an assumption that Pakistan can not sustain prolonged armed conflict and will try to avoid it at all possible cost. They never anticipated (or not prepared) for something like that (27th Feb).
Hence, i always maintain 27th Feb was good for IAF.

Well I agree with the first statementyou are no military expert. The whole Indian doctrine in respect to Pakistan has always been to overwhelm the Pak defences before the nuclear option can be used. (Cold start etc) However this whole adventure was borne of arrogance. They thought there would be no retaliation, that they could easily overwhelm the opposition. I have stated before that the IAF is actually a mess that will take decades and a lot of money to fix. The arrogance is more of national problem... that will take longer....

 

[Zee-shaun]

View attachment 570294

 

[Cuirassier]

Actually therein lies the core malaise of the IAF. Their top brass more than their pilots are at fault. It is the job and & duty of the top brass to formulate and devise correct doctrines & strategy. Based on which tactics are developed and assets are acquired & organized. That they didn't see this coming especially after the events of the 26th and were not prepared in general for such a possibility at all, does not bode well for the IAF think tanks as a whole. Especially when the Pakistani PM and DG ISPR categorically had stated earlier that we would retaliate to any aggression. Something tells me that even if they did learn from this mistake, they are set to make new ones (mistakes) if they try to jump the gun again. You cannot change your way of thinking on which your entire careers have been based, overnight, this will take time to rectify. The capacity that the IAF needs to build is not just assets (they have plenty), but how their personnel can make optimum use of their assets to achieve their objectives. Their training and tactics need a thorough review. IAF had BVR way way before than PAF i.e. way more seasoned in using BVRs than the PAF. Yet they couldn't drive that head start and greater experience to a telling advantage on the 27th. Furthermore they had been practicing against F-16s of the Singapore, Korea and UAE air forces for more than a decade now ... yet they get out gunned and out distanced by AMRAAM's (choosing words from Indian media)? Food for thought indeed.

On point.