27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

[PanzerKiel]

That will help us a lot. I still hope that India continues with the same thoughts & interests. Their acknowledgment otherwise, is more a threat rising for us.

The most interesting point is, the one which they also just say but not discuss, is that how PAF managed to amass MORE THAN 24 planes (Indians say 24, i say there were more than that), despite a complete lack of airfields around the battle area....planes even from Shahbaz also participated in it....meaning from all over the country....Mirages from one place, 52s from another place, Aggressors from somewhere else, Blinders from Mars, Saabs from Gwadar, JF-17s from Charsi Tikka AFB in Peshawar.....

....it must sound fishy for everyone....first the concentration of all these aircraft at our large new shiny PAF Base at Azad Pattan in AK went unnoticed.....then these planes refueled...still undetected....and then these separate packages went in the air...still unnoticed.....its not just a failure of Indian AWACS.....its a failure of multiple dimensions ..... ELINT, HUMINT, SATINT.....

...so in pure military sense, concentrating such a large force of different types of aircraft at one place, one day is no small feat....imagine you seeing all these types in air at a given point of time.....its either happens on 23 March parade, or in war.....Indian Air Int should have detected this concentration / aufsmarsch but failed....for some it was a big air op....but kudos to our planners....for us it was a nothing more than a parade....

...27 Feb was not just an air victory for us....it was a victory for our Intelligence, counter intelligence and OTHERS as well...

 

[PanzerKiel]

The most interesting point is, the one which they also just say but not discuss, is that how PAF managed to amass MORE THAN 24 planes (Indians say 24, i say there were more than that), despite a complete lack of airfields around the battle area....planes even from Shahbaz also participated in it....meaning from all over the country....Mirages from one place, 52s from another place, Aggressors from somewhere else, Blinders from Mars, Saabs from Gwadar, JF-17s from Charsi Tikka AFB in Peshawar.....

....it must sound fishy for everyone....first the concentration of all these aircraft at our large new shiny PAF Base at Azad Pattan in AK went unnoticed.....then these planes refueled...still undetected....and then these separate packages went in the air...still unnoticed.....its not just a failure of Indian AWACS.....its a failure of multiple dimensions.....ELINT, HUMINT, SATINT.....

...so in pure military sense, concentrating such a large force of different types of aircraft at one place, one day is no small feat....imagine you seeing all these types in air at a given point of time.....its either happens on 23 March parade, or in war.....Indian Air Int should have detected this concentration / aufsmarsch but failed....for some it was a big air op....but kudos to our planners....for us it was a nothing more than a parade....

...27 Feb was not just an air victory for us....it was a victory for our Intelligence, counter intelligence and OTHERS as well...

Moreover, to add on, interestingly, on PAF side, AVM Muhammad Qaisar Janjua ,GDP, heads PAF's Air Int branch, and AVM Muhammad Nadeem Sabir, again GDP, heads C4I branch of PAF, as separate independent sections......however, i couldnt find any AM or AVM from IAF heading their Air Int.....they must be having it in their commands or other HQs.....but it does show the importance which the PAF gives to matters related to Air int and C4I.

 

[The Eagle]

Blinders from Mars

JF-17s from Charsi Tikka AFB

PAF Base at Azad Pattan

Indians are hereby invited to add these in their next article.

The most interesting point is, the one which they also just say but not discuss, is that how PAF managed to amass MORE THAN 24 planes (Indians say 24, i say there were more than that), despite a complete lack of airfields around the battle area....planes even from Shahbaz also participated in it....meaning from all over the country....Mirages from one place, 52s from another place, Aggressors from somewhere else, Blinders from Mars, Saabs from Gwadar, JF-17s from Charsi Tikka AFB in Peshawar.....

....it must sound fishy for everyone....first the concentration of all these aircraft at our large new shiny PAF Base at Azad Pattan in AK went unnoticed.....then these planes refueled...still undetected....and these the separate packages went in the air...still unnoticed.....its not just a failure of Indian AWACS.....its a failure of multiple dimensions.....ELINT, HUMINT, SATINT.....

...so in pure military sense, concentrating such a large force of different types of aircraft at one place, one day is no small feat....imagine you seeing all these types in air at a given point of time.....its either happens on 23 March parade, or in war.....Indian Air Int should should have detected this concentration / aufsmarsch but failed....for some it was a big air op....but kudos to our planners....for us it was a nothing more than a parade....

...27 Feb was not just an air victory for us....it was a victory for our Intelligence, counter intelligence and OTHERS as well...

In my view, they resort to propagate and accepted their own incompetence by way of crying. Their network was spammed, they said that their most assets were grounded while even their analysts were discussing IAF readiness at 4:00 am. Isn't that a shame if a military says that they were grounded and refueling and taken by surprise. All in all, their was total lack of professionalism or even moral to say the least given their responses on media and twisting things merely to divert public humiliation. No doubt, PAF just did one trick on that day and hundreds remains in book. IAF preparedness onward and defence investment tells a lot that how decades of verbal propaganda & bravado was shot down on that day. It is harsh as much as hugging own death for them now to accept the total failure at Indian Military end.

However, the world saw what Pakistan did in Operation Swift Retort and no one ever said that PAF or PA or PN gave everything to Indian Armed Forces to be prepared. They had one lesson but on other hand, I am sure, PAF learnt more than the IAF as well. Pakistan validated many of operational tactics, verified many of parameters & practically done lot of Operational Capability Validation. I still remember the day when PAF officials were interviewed and it was said that when done; everyone was back to routine & planning & drills & usual learning or drawing board. The way it appears, it was like as you said.... a well planned application of tactics and yet another parade.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Indians are hereby invited to add these in their next article.



In my view, they resort to propagate and accepted their own incompetence by way of crying. Their network was spammed, they said that their most assets were grounded while even their analysts were discussing IAF readiness at 4:00 am. Isn't that a shame if a military says that they were grounded and refueling and taken by surprise. All in all, their was total lack of professionalism or even moral to say the least given their responses on media and twisting things merely to divert public humiliation. No doubt, PAF just did one trick on that day and hundreds remains in book. IAF preparedness onward and defence investment tells a lot that how decades of verbal propaganda & bravado was shot down on that day. It is harsh as much as hugging own death for them now to accept the total failure at Indian Military end.

However, the world saw what Pakistan did in Operation Swift Retort and no one ever said that PAF or PA or PN gave everything to Indian Armed Forces to be prepared. They had one lesson but on other hand, I am sure, PAF learnt more than the IAF as well. Pakistan validated many of operational tactics, verified many of parameters & practically done lot of Operational Capability Validation. I still remember the day when PAF officials were interviewed and it was said that when done; everyone was back to routine & planning & drills & usual learning or drawing board. The way it appears, it was like as you said.... a well planned application of tactics and yet another parade.

For me, if we want to find the losses to Indian in terms of money....then it isnt just the price of 1 MIG21 or 1 Su30....the after effects need to be added as well....like Rafale deal, updgradation progm of Su30, Mig29s, blah blah...these all happened due to 27 Feb....this exactly is the real cost Indian had to bear post 27 Feb...and it really runs in to God knows how many billion of dollars...

 

[RoshiniVenegal]

For me, if we want to find the losses to Indian in terms of money....then it isnt just the price of 1 MIG21 or 1 Su30....the after effects need to be added as well....like Rafale deal, updgradation progm of Su30, Mig29s, blah blah...these all happened due to 27 Feb....this exactly is the real cost Indian had to bear post 27 Feb...and it really runs in to God knows how many billion of dollars...

But this will help Indian military for the future big events hopefully. India military is not proactive, the China episode and Feb 27th will atleast make them prepare little better.

 

[HostileInsurgent]

For me, if we want to find the losses to Indian in terms of money....then it isnt just the price of 1 MIG21 or 1 Su30....the after effects need to be added as well....like Rafale deal, updgradation progm of Su30, Mig29s, blah blah...these all happened due to 27 Feb....this exactly is the real cost Indian had to bear post 27 Feb...and it really runs in to God knows how many billion of dollars...

Su-30MKI? Any proof? There are more evidences of F-16 downing than that fake Su-30MKI kill.

 

[PanzerKiel]

But this will help Indian military for the future big events hopefully. India military is not proactive, the China episode and Feb 27th will atleast make them prepare little better.

Yes, you are right...thats a logical sequence.....but Indian military needs to be by default proactive...it shouldnt be in the need of such big events or blunders to remind it of its passiveness.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

10 dino mein 2 saal hovay jatay hain or 27 Feb 2019 yeh bharat kay mu per aisay tamachay raseed kiyay hain hum nay kay sadiyan duhraingi is ko jab bhi india yaan indiono nay nazrain uthanay ki kooshish keen to.

Su-30MKI? Any proof? There are more evidences of F-16 downing than that fake Su-30MKI kill.

Jhoot kay paon nahi hotay or tum indian jhoot bolnay say baaz nahi aatay..
tumhara abhi non done chai pakanay aya tha pak mes mein or modi ki patloon geeli ho gaye thi.. kuch aesi hi story ka bataya ho ga tumharay media nay.

 

[The Eagle]

Su-30MKI? Any proof? There are more evidences of F-16 downing than that fake Su-30MKI kill.

Giving you plenty of time to troll Indians with the same imaginary F-16 Kill. By the way, did you try to pay a bit of attention that why IAF MI-17V5 was shot? Don't you think that the same was seen as hostile object? What if that is the kill that Indians were so convinced for shooting down of an alleged F-16. The argument is long past the Indian claims as nothing found in this regard by any international observatory. However, it was IAF that paraded an exploded AIM-120C5 of PAF to divert attention but gave themselves up big time. They actually revealed as to why there was an additional kill to MiG-21 and how could they found it exploded and recovered. Think about while you have plenty of time now. Off you go.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Su-30MKI? Any proof? There are more evidences of F-16 downing than that fake Su-30MKI kill.

Proof is there, yes, but ofcourse its not allowed at the time to be shown openly.....otherwise dear, i would love to share with you, here on PDF, the voice of Su30 pilot (saying that hes been hit, going down, his intention of ejecting), then the radar pictures of this event, and even the post shoot-down assessment in the form of our ground agents who even managed to get the pictures of Su-30 wreckage before any Indian LEA reached the scene....even the SAT pics of the wreckage (both normal and IR).....all these things are there...

....and i would love to be the one to share it here.....

Her cheez ka aik waqt hota hai...we are just waiting for the right time....like we did on 27 Feb...timing matters you know.

 

[The Eagle]

10 dino mein 2 saal hovay jatay hain or 27 Feb 2019 yeh bharat kay mu per aisay tamachay raseed kiyay hain hum nay kay sadiyan duhraingi is ko jab bhi india yaan indiono nay nazrain uthanay ki kooshish keen to.

Jhoot kay paon nahi hotay or tum indian jhoot bolnay say baaz nahi aatay..
tumhara abhi non done chai pakanay aya tha pak mes mein or modi ki patloon geeli ho gaye thi.. kuch aesi hi story ka bataya ho ga tumharay media nay.

India claimed to shoot down an F-16 by MiG-21.
le F-16 operators world wide: Kese kar lete hu bhai.

Abhinandan himself clearly said that he was looking for a target but he was struck with an AMRAAM by PAF. The man never spoke again.... not a single claim for shooting down the F-16 even when he make it back to India. Not till date.... only, online warriors & internet Air Marshalls been convinced to soothe the pain. This argument is dead in history with a title of "Indian Jokes" as usual.

 

[arjunk]

Proof is there, yes, but ofcourse its not allowed at the time to be shown openly.....otherwise dear, i would love to share with you, here on PDF, the voice of Su30 pilot (saying that hes been hit, going down, his intention of ejecting), then the radar pictures of this event, and even the post shoot-down assessment in the form of our ground agents who even managed to get the pictures of Su-30 wreckage before any Indian LEA reached the scene....even the SAT pics of the wreckage (both normal and IR).....all these things are there...

I think you said a bit too much for an internet troll... Poor guy's already banned.

 

[RoshiniVenegal]

Yes, you are right...thats a logical sequence.....but Indian military needs to be by default proactive...it shouldnt be in the need of such big events or blunders to remind it of its passiveness.

Indian military is always been passive, look at the procurement policy. Takes 10, 15 years minimum to finalise any major procurement. Hopefully things are improving, lot of indigenous things coming up.

 

[The Eagle]

Proof is there, yes, but ofcourse its not allowed at the time to be shown openly.....otherwise dear, i would love to share with you, here on PDF, the voice of Su30 pilot (saying that hes been hit, going down, his intention of ejecting), then the radar pictures of this event, and even the post shoot-down assessment in the form of our ground agents who even managed to get the pictures of Su-30 wreckage before any Indian LEA reached the scene....even the SAT pics of the wreckage (both normal and IR).....all these things are there...

....and i would love to be the one to share it here.....

Her cheez ka aik waqt hota hai...we are just waiting for the right time....like we did on 27 Feb...timing matters you know.

They are still convinced that Pakistan doesn't have evidence, given their habit of show me everything so I will believe, and till it has been released they are gaining enough time to avoid public anger which seems to be impossible or expecting anything from RSS brigade. I am sure, evidence & proofs as such are held back so that the emotions be calmed and Indian Armed Forces wouldn't be pushed hard for a suicide attempt given the embarrassment for losing an MKI. This is the same reason, in my opinion, that Pakistan wanted to deescalate things on different mediums by different parameters through different strategies. Had it been released earlier; there would have been a emotional breakdown & even possibly a massacre by RSS or otherwise, the extremist leadership would have been forced to play foul openly. In such, an assured destruction for the both sides, was just on the way so that Pakistan didn't release much but kept for later purpose. Apparently, the day is not far as much as I see.

 

[PanzerKiel]

India claimed to shoot down an F-16 by MiG-21.
le F-16 operatorsi: Kese kar lete hu bhai.

Abhinandan himself clearly said that he was looking for a target but he was struck with an AMRAAM by PAF. The man never spoke again.... not a single claim for shooting down the F-16 even when he make it back to India. Not till date.... only, online warriors & internet Air Marshalls been convinced to soothe the pain. This argument is dead in history with a title of "Indian Jokes" as usual.

Personally, i take WC Abhinandan as a real gentleman (till now)...he ofcourse knows exactly what happened, i bet he must have been approached by different quarters to just appear on media and say that he shot down an F-16....and if he had done this, this would have given a new life to indian propaganda.....but see, he hasnt spoken a word about it...generally a nation parades its heroes in front of everyone, like we did (PAF), but the real hero for the Indians in this case was supposed to be WC Abhinandan, and then surprisingly, only hes the one who hasnt spoken yet.....strange as usual....

Indian military is always been passive, look at the procurement policy. Takes 10, 15 years minimum to finalise any major procurement. Hopefully things are improving, lot of indigenous things coming up.

You are right dear, Indian military procurement policy surprises me as well.....i dont know whats the delay in procuring something once it is selected and the money is there as well...