27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

[Windjammer]

No I don't. I can find out though.

However I do know there were only two F-16As in the package. One piloted by Wg Cmdr Nauman and one by Wg Cmdr Tariq Waheed who is currently known with the title of Sher Afghan (Top CCS Graduate).

S/L Hassan was flying an F-16B with a high ranking official as his GIB and commanding the overall operation.

 

[airomerix]

S/L Hassan was flying an F-16B with a high ranking official as his GIB and commanding the overall operation.

You must be talking about AOC Central then. And yes AOC Central, ACS Ops and several other high ranking officers were on the front.

Those of you who are worrying about ACMI taking up sidewinder space.

ACMI in F-16 MLU's is modulated in Sniper Pod on right wing root. And ACMI is something which is must have these days even in combat missions. There shouldn't be any confusion in this.

 

[HawkEye27]

S/L Hassan was flying an F-16B with a high ranking official as his GIB and commanding the overall operation.

Dir Ops

 

[gambit]

Thanks again. So there is no way PAF could have recorded the missile's trajectory for later analysis, given they only have C-7 version?

Unless the missile was tracked with a ground base radar, I do not see how.

An ACMI pod does not affect aircraft's capabilities other than taking up one pylon. All an ACMI pod does is intercept and record various aircraft data based upon its bus monitoring capabilities. Am not going to research the details in this event. I will leave it up to the Pakistani members here.

An ACMI pod can be used in an actual combat sortie but for what reason(s)? To verify what the aircraft actually did? But for that, why?

 

[Apocalypse]

S/L Hassan was flying an F-16B with a high ranking official as his GIB and commanding the overall operation.

The Vice Chief, yes.

 

[HawkEye27]

Thanks again. So there is no way PAF could have recorded the missile's trajectory for later analysis, given they only have C-7 version?

Missile has a 2 way comm with aircraft if its been guided by its radar.

As per accounts SL Hassan guided the missile all the way through. So the hud/radar symboligy indicates missile location

 

[CriticalThought]

Missile has a 2 way comm with aircraft if its been guided by its radar.

As per accounts SL Hassan guided the missile all the way through. So the hud/radar symboligy indicates missile location

Read gambit's posts again. He has provided clear indication that two way comms on AMRAAM came only with Block D which PAF doesn't have. In the absence of that, you don't know where the missile went, you only know what the aircraft instructed it to do.

 

[SQ8]

This information is pretty rare to find in civilian circles so its unlikely Kaiser Tufail would take this risk. Since he would explain all this with more detail due to the virtue of his experience.



I have been told exactly opposite by guys here at 9 Sqn.

AMRAAM doesn't self destruct. Atleast the C5/C7 variants do not.

Even NATO believes that. This is why they launched a multi million dollar search for the misfired AMRAAM which was never found. According to latest reports it is possible that the missile has gone underground due to the sheer velocity it flies with. But it certainly never exploded or else they would have found the debris within the extrapolated time.

Probably for safety reasons I would not think self destruct would be something pushed especially to avoid collateral casualties or inadvertent triggers while on the wing of the aircraft itself.

Read gambit's posts again. He has provided clear indication that two way comms on AMRAAM came only with Block D which PAF doesn't have. In the absence of that, you don't know where the missile went, you only know what the aircraft instructed it to do.

The C-5 variant doesn’t have a 2 way datalink. What the aircraft’s systems have is the ability to advise the pilot when the missile has gone active (brevity code: pitbull)

 

[airomerix]

Missile has a 2 way comm with aircraft if its been guided by its radar.

As per accounts SL Hassan guided the missile all the way through. So the hud/radar symboligy indicates missile location

You're right. The missile was guided till the end by S/L Hassan. I've confirmed this from multiple people. No doubt in it.

 

[CriticalThought]

The C-5 variant doesn’t have a 2 way datalink. What the aircraft’s systems have is the ability to advise the pilot when the missile has gone active (brevity code: pitbull)

That makes sense because that is the point when the aircraft hands over authority to the missile for terminal guidance. So PAF can know for sure that Fox 3 went pitbull, and the Indians showed us that it exploded. Whether the terminal phase guided it towards chaff or Flanker is unknown. Now we do have a video showing an aircraft with aft section on fire doing a tail spin. And I have previously posted analysis on that video that it looks like a proximity fuse went off near the fuel tank.

 

[SQ8]

You're right. The missile was guided till the end by S/L Hassan. I've confirmed this from multiple people. No doubt in it.

The part that “confirms” a hit is that it is uncharacteristic of Indians not to blow a toot on something as a damaged jet making it back. Or that the image of the jet making it back.

The “Amraam dodger” patches that appeared seemed to be almost an afterthought to the patches issued by the PAF.

If the Amraam was indeed “dodged” then why the clamoring for the Rafale?

Even if we give all the benefit of the doubt to them, discard all accounts heard - that Rafale comment on its own gives veracity to any claim by the PAF.

That makes sense because that is the point when the aircraft hands over authority to the missile for terminal guidance. So PAF can know for sure that Fox 3 went pitbull, and the Indians showed us that it exploded. Whether the terminal phase guided it towards chaff or Flanker is unknown. Now we do have a video showing an aircraft with aft section on fire doing a tail spin. And I have previously posted analysis on that video that it looks like a proximity fuse went off near the fuel tank.

It is possible it could be the mig-21, but if it did explode on the Chaff - why did they not re-engage and basically the entire IAF technology “creme” tucked tail and ran?

 

[CriticalThought]

It is possible it could be the mig-21, but if it did explode on the Chaff - why did they not re-engage and basically the entire IAF technology “creme” tucked tail and ran?

I would like to draw attention to the video in this post. The video is in the quoted part. I feel like enough attention has not been paid to this video.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/27-f...irspace-dg-ispr.604031/page-465#post-11301242

 

[SQ8]

I would like to draw attention to the video in this post. The video is in the quoted part. I feel like enough attention has not been paid to this video.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/27-f...irspace-dg-ispr.604031/page-465#post-11301242

Its too low quality to determine if its a piece of an aircraft or an entire aircraft. We know the Mig-21 by the wreckage so it is possible that it is the fighter falling down.

 

[airomerix]

The part that “confirms” a hit is that it is uncharacteristic of Indians not to blow a toot on something as a damaged jet making it back. Or that the image of the jet making it back.

The “Amraam dodger” patches that appeared seemed to be almost an afterthought to the patches issued by the PAF.

If the Amraam was indeed “dodged” then why the clamoring for the Rafale?

Even if we give all the benefit of the doubt to them, discard all accounts heard - that Rafale comment on its own gives veracity to any claim by the PAF.


It is possible it could be the mig-21, but if it did explode on the Chaff - why did they not re-engage and basically the entire IAF technology “creme” tucked tail and ran?

Exactly!

Thank you!

I think there is a gap in the understanding pertaining to the real capabilities on both sides of the borders. This is why there have been tons of invalid claims being made on daily basis. For example, launching of 4-5 AMRAAMS, AMRAAM hitting a village girl and blasting off. I mean WTF.

The guys at AHQ are DEAD SURE that the AMRAAM is hit. There is a department at AHQ which was working on the data.

 

[SQ8]

Exactly!

Thank you!

I think there is a gap in the understanding pertaining to the real capabilities on both sides of the borders. This is why there have been tons of invalid claims being made on daily basis. For example, launching of 4-5 AMRAAMS, AMRAAM hitting a village girl and blasting off. I mean WTF.

The guys at AHQ are DEAD SURE that the AMRAAM is hit. There is a department at AHQ which was working on the data.

Assuming the Amraam exploded into Chaff - where the heck did the Su go?
Did he just run at burner all the way back to Halwara, slam onto the runway and straight to the bathroom to let it go?
Amusing ideas aside, even if there is no Su kill; being able to take air superiority from a technologically superior force is an achievement in its own right.

However, based on what I heard from here and other places.. suffice to say the entire IAF is back to the drawing board for their ASR.