27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

[Mani2020]

Interesting

Crux of the story

2 jf17s locked on to two aircarfts and made bvr hits

One aircraft was mig 21 while the other one was either mirage 2000 or su-30 ..still confusion between these two

The helicopter downed within their territory was a hit from their own aircraft ..which mistook it as an enemy target

 

[CriticalThought]

These missiles/bombs combine Satellite Navigation and Electro-optical guidance, and its targets can be changed and controlled inflight. hence it is extremely unlikely that these will miss their targets.

Electro-optical was useless because the IAF aircrafts were scrambling back in haste. And GPS IS satellite navigation. Try driving around in Sydney CBD using GPS.

 

[ghazi768]

Now I have some points on the aircraft that is confirmed to be downed. Need your comments.

1. Why did InAF deploy the Mig-21 Bison in such a hot zone. It is a good interceptor but when you know you are in a conflict situation you should plan and deploy your most capable CAP assets eg SU-30s, Mig-29s etc. Surely InAF planners are not idiots. Even PAF withdrew F-7PGs and re allocated fighters so JF-17s and F-16s are more likely to see action. The Aim-120 Indians are parading is probably from when PAF engaged InAF 3 times the day before.

Their forward bases deploy Mig-21s and in some cased Mig-29s as well as interceptors, that is their job to act as interceptors. And as these jet fighters do not have good radar or network based SA so are strictly controlled by GC or from an AWACS which moves them around to try to place them in an advantageous position but these tactics/doctrine are now old but is still required for such aircrafts.

2. Where was WC Abhi's wing man. Should have been on a Mig-21 as well. He should have avenged his wing man as long as he had fuel and missiles.

In the ensuing battle and it's confusion, got separated or turned away when warned of a missile threat by GC.

3. Why was WC Abhi, a SU-30 pilot flying a Mig-21. We know PAF moves its most experienced pilots from F-16s to JF-17s, since they have better weapon package options but move from a SU-30 to Mig-21 is a downgrade or a punishment and a waste since InAF does have a pilot to aircraft ratio shortness.

Usually other airforces keep pilot on a single platform or rotate them around for gaining certification and experience on multiple platforms and than assign their best and brightest to their best platforms. But in case of IAF, that is the most incredulous thing but is true and known, IAF shifts its most trained and experienced fighters to its most obsolete and weak platforms and hands its best platforms to more in-experienced ones. The standard reason given by them is that newer platforms are easier to fly so are handed to younger pilots while older platforms which are not fly by wire are handed to experienced pilots. In a way it also shows a window into IAFs mentality, it gives preference to machines it have over the pilots it have.

 

[aziqbal]

I have another question was the second BVR hit on the two seater inside Indian territory

Also did Pakistan enter Indian territory ?

PAF laid the trap from Nowshera district ?

 

[Sine Nomine]

The IAF can(or could have as now world players have stepped in to resolve the issue) strike back very hard and surprise us as well, but it has massive diplomatic and real world doomsday implications that leave it confounded.

How to reverse that scenario?

 

[Ali_Baba]

I think China should give PAF samples of both the PL-10 and PL-15 so that we can battle test them against the IAF. They will gain valuable knowledge and experience through this. We know the PL-5 and SD-10A have worked very well and we have lots of data from that encounter we can use for further analysis.

 

[SrNair]

No, they said they were searching for three because they knew a second dual seater (Su-30MKI) went down. They only found two. The third one is in your land, possibly dead.

As for our 2nd friend, he probably died in hospital. Pakistan is keeping it's mouth shut to prevent further escalation.

The gap between a Flanker and a Thunder, or a Flanker and a Viper is far less than the gap between a Viper and a Bison. If a dual seater went down, it's probably a Flanker. Especially when one considers the US hasn't blasted Pakistan yet (which it would if Vipers were used).

If one died in Pak hospital that means he will MIA .like they did for Mig 21 pilot.

Its simple logic ,you cant brush the loss of a pilot under the carpet .
Your forces had a history to disown your own soldiers during Kargil war .So that kind of shitty logic may applicable in that side.Not here .

F 16 also has dual seat version.

No body is buying this even your own people. All what you are saying is utterly stupid and embarrassing you further. Why waiting for the dust to settle? Expose liars, debunk Pakistan's made up fairytales, uncover Pakistan's contradicting information, beat your chest, unleash your wrath and make a come back.

I offer my shoulder. You can have other one too for two more pilots but..... Pakistan really played well

Yup.
Really played well so that everyone could understand that.

We dont want to humilate your firces anymore,but if they push again we will also release the evidences also

 

[Shabi1]

If one died in Pak hospital that means he will MIA .like they did for Mig 21 pilot.

Its simple logic ,you cant brush the loss of a pilot under the carpet .
Your forces had a history to disown your own soldiers during Kargil war .So that kind of shitty logic may applicable in that side.Not here .

F 16 also has dual seat version.

Only Indian propaganda says we disown soldiers and their credibility is now very apparent.

We celebrate our dead and are proud of our shaheeds. Each shaheed gets reported in media. Get this out of your head.

Yes F-16 has a dual seater but Indian story has always been a single downed Pakistani pilot not two. Whereas there is now a eyewitness video of 3 ejections.

Will be all clear once hostilities end and PAF will be able to release HUD footage without risk of Indian backlash. If InAF has such proof nothing stopping to share right now.

 

[CaptainNemo]

Just sharing what I learned from a friend. His contact in govt shared that Russians had reached out and asked us to not highlight that PAF downed an SU-30.
He thought this might be a reason why this story shifted.
I am not sure how this helps Pakistan by suppressing the news, but maybe other more knowledgeable members can shed light on it. Or maybe this angle doesn't make sense...

 

[Great Janjua]

If one died in Pak hospital that means he will MIA .like they did for Mig 21 pilot.

Its simple logic ,you cant brush the loss of a pilot under the carpet .
Your forces had a history to disown your own soldiers during Kargil war .So that kind of shitty logic may applicable in that side.Not here .

F 16 also has dual seat version.

I'll bust all your claims now listen. let's say f-16 was downed with two pilots then why has India not captured the pilot that landed in India even locals have verified that at least 100 percent one parachute landed in IOK

Go capture him why you still on PDF

 

[Maxpane]

 

[aziqbal]

Former air chief has pretty much confirmed what happened

No one can now say it’s unconfirmed reports

Only thing he did not elaborate on was the nature of the second aircraft

I just wished he didn’t stop short of saying it was a Su30 MKI

 

[SrNair]

I'll bust all your claims now listen. let's say f-16 was downed with two pilots then why has India not captured the pilot that landed in India even locals have verified that at least 100 percent one parachute landed in IOK

Go capture him why you still on PDF

No parachute landed in India .
If anyone lands we need to present them in front of the nations.
Our democracy give too much freedomvto do all kind of shit so even a CM can insult nation and her forces for her own politics .
If a single word from any neighbour ,not even from relatives ,but from a neighbour of a covered up killed pilot ,then it would be enough medias and opposition will Govt.
Our forces were defending our nation ,so even if there casuality we will accept infact good for diplomatic efforts .

So save that story to yourselvess.

 

[Shabi1]

No parachute landed in India .
If anyone lands we need to present them in front of the nations.
Our democracy give too much freedomvto do all kind of shit so even a CM can insult nation and her forces for her own politics .
If a single word from any neighbour ,not even from relatives ,but from a neighbour of a covered up killed pilot ,then it would be enough medias and opposition will Govt.
Our forces were defending our nation ,so even if there casuality we will accept infact good for diplomatic efforts .

So save that story to yourselvess.

You lost all credibility when your airforce claimed 250-300 dead in front of entire world. A matured democracy doesnt engage in warmongering for elections. No coming back from there. Modi Jee has made a joke of India

 

[SrNair]

Just sharing what I learned from a friend. His contact in govt shared that Russians had reached out and asked us to not highlight that PAF downed an SU-30.
He thought this might be a reason why this story shifted.
I am not sure how this helps Pakistan by suppressing the news, but maybe other more knowledgeable members can shed light on it. Or maybe this angle doesn't make sense...

Great story .
You have a future in lollywood scripts.

Cut this BS , defending a nation is not a tallying of numbersv.
If there is a loss then we will accept loss .
Thats all