20 states demand secession from US

[Hammer-fist]

1. The fact is a few years ago even the notion of states seceding from the most powerful country in the world would have been seen as absurd and been ridiculed and dismissed as the stuff of "conspiracy theorists" and fantasists.

However we now have thousands and thousands of born and bred 100% Americans openly supporting this, even if overall they are a very small percentage of the total population.

The idea of secession has entered the public domain, and now it is on the agenda and not just confined to Vermont where they often discuss seceding from the USA.

2. The American economy may recover. Things may be great...

or...

The American economy may continue to decline as America experiences its highest levels of poverty in modern history (50 million or so apparently on food stamps) and thus support for secession from a weakening USA will just increase.

3. Support for secession definitely seems to stronger from the ex-confederate states of the deep south that fought against the federal government two centuries ago. Ironically it is some of these very same states who are the least able to have feasible independence, whereas the likes of California and Texas could.

The derisory comments that it is rednecks and racists primarily supporting "secession" have some degree of truth.

4. If secession does take place I do not think each state would become an independent nation but they would form a new federation/confederacy.

In the past before this talk became relatively mainstream as it is now, people said some of the northern US states might even confederate with Canada.

The whiter states might want to prevent Latino demographic domination in a united America and secede.

What happens to blacks living in the southern states? The influence of the relatively more liberal north and powerful federal institutions goes and they have to live in far more right-wing racially polarized southern states.

5. The role of the US as the world's dominant power changes and ripples affect the entire planet depending on how much smaller/weaker the US becomes e.g. Japan which has refrained from acquiring the nuclear bomb due to being under the US nuclear umbrella may start eyeing nukes, Georgia which even challenged the Russian bear to a fight a few years ago will be weaker. Western Europe still full of US troops may have to look towards its own defence needs independent of NATO. Pakistan being bombed weekly by the US will definitely be different.

However what is undeniable is that the very sacred notion/concept of the "United States of America" which was unquestionable a decade ago and complete loyalty to it by the overwhelming majority of white Americans (blacks always knew they were/are 2nd class citizens) has gone.

A major milestone.

 

[jhungary]

1. The fact is a few years ago even the notion of states seceding from the most powerful country in the world would have been seen as absurd and been ridiculed and dismissed as the stuff of "conspiracy theorists" and fantasists.

However we now have thousands and thousands of born and bred 100% Americans openly supporting this, even if overall they are a very small percentage of the total population.

The idea of secession has entered the public domain, and now it is on the agenda and not just confined to Vermont where they often discuss seceding from the USA.

2. The American economy may recover. Things may be great...

or...

The American economy may continue to decline as America experiences its highest levels of poverty in modern history (50 million or so apparently on food stamps) and thus support for secession from a weakening USA will just increase.

3. Support for secession definitely seems to stronger from the ex-confederate states of the deep south that fought against the federal government two centuries ago. Ironically it is some of these very same states who are the least able to have feasible independence, whereas the likes of California and Texas could.

The derisory comments that it is rednecks and racists primarily supporting "secession" have some degree of truth.

4. If secession does take place I do not think each state would become an independent nation but they would form a new federation/confederacy.

In the past before this talk became relatively mainstream as it is now, people said some of the northern US states might even confederate with Canada.

The whiter states might want to prevent Latino demographic domination in a united America and secede.

What happens to blacks living in the southern states? The influence of the relatively more liberal north and powerful federal institutions goes and they have to live in far more right-wing racially polarized southern states.

5. The role of the US as the world's dominant power changes and ripples affect the entire planet depending on how much smaller/weaker the US becomes e.g. Japan which has refrained from acquiring the nuclear bomb due to being under the US nuclear umbrella may start eyeing nukes, Georgia which even challenged the Russian bear to a fight a few years ago will be weaker. Western Europe still full of US troops may have to look towards its own defence needs independent of NATO. Pakistan being bombed weekly by the US will definitely be different.

However what is undeniable is that the very sacred notion/concept of the "United States of America" which was unquestionable a decade ago and complete loyalty to it by the overwhelming majority of white Americans (blacks always knew they were/are 2nd class citizens) has gone.

A major milestone.

I don't see any major milestone on these petition, as an American, it's your birth right to petition, i don't know how poeple value petition in Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, China or whereever in the world. Signing a petition is a day to day life in America, does that mean anything? No.

I walk down the street so SPCA member ask me to sign a Saving Exotic Animal petition, i will sign it regardless if i love the animal, or even heard of it. One cannot imagine how casual petition system work.

First of all, people need to know the following:

People wanting to Secede /= American wanting to Secede /= American Citizen wanting to Secede /= States want to secede from Union (/= mean not equal)

Signing petition is something like an exit poll, which mean somepeople just don't agree with the government, big deal, no government can achieve 100% governance and 100% approval rating. People thinking, ok, now a lot of people (1 million people) want to secede that mena something wrong with the policy/economic/government. What people don't aware is, how people think is not paraelle to what government do. WHat it said Obama administration(may not be Obama himself) will look at it, but it is not the same of they will do anything about it. Even if you have a petition of all 325 million american signing to secede, it does not mean Obama will say, "ok, if that's what the people want, let's disband America" No. It baiscally mean nothing.

As my previous post stated, People want to Secede does not equal to States want to secede, people have different view to the government at most can head to the street and demostrate the hack of it. If a state want to secede, they can use their own National Guard. Which is a big different. Even if States wanted to secede, they will also need to work with other states that also wanted to secede and the federal government. As Federal Goverment will just send troop to supress those states. Which is what the states don't want

You can look into these kind of petition seriously, but nobody actaully care in America. If you honestly think US will disband from these petition, you will just be point to and laugh at by any American.

 

[Hammer-fist]

Nowhere have I suggested that there is a real chance of the USA breaking up........now.

These are mere petitions.

However the idea, the concept, the notion of some parts of the USA leaving the union is now in the public consciousness and cannot be dismissed as merely the ideas of a few lunatics.

America will not break up

...now.

In the next decade or two everything depends on how the American economy performs.

 

[jhungary]

Nowhere have I suggested that there is a real chance of the USA breaking up........now.

These are mere petitions.

However the idea, the concept, the notion of some parts of the USA leaving the union is now in the public consciousness and cannot be dismissed as merely the ideas of a few lunatics.

America will not break up

...now.

In the next decade or two everything depends on how the American economy performs.

I am suggesting America will not break up EVER unless a Civil war broke out or the Congress and President itself dissolve, Secession is not something their citizens can do

EDIT: In italic

 

[anon45]

Nowhere have I suggested that there is a real chance of the USA breaking up........now.

These are mere petitions.

However the idea, the concept, the notion of some parts of the USA leaving the union is now in the public consciousness and cannot be dismissed as merely the ideas of a few lunatics.

America will not break up

...now.

In the next decade or two everything depends on how the American economy performs.

Nothing new for those petitioning secession from the union - West Palm Beach Libertarian | Examiner.com

Nothing new for those petitioning secession from the union
What can only be viewed respectively as 'venting' after last week's general election, many Floridians and more across the nation, want their respective states to secede from the nation. As of this morning 31,808 Floridians have digitally signed a petition to President Obama requesting a response to their plea to have Florida leave the union and go it alone. Texas, Louisiana and Florida are the top three states in the nation with the largest number of petition signatures and are part of hundreds of thousands of Americans signing petitions nationwide wanting to get out from federal rule.

Secession in the United States is nothing new. Talk of secession was common amongst the colonies before the U.S. Constitution was signed, while we were operating under the Articles of Confederation. As early as 1799, Thomas Jefferson wrote to James Madison, "sever ourselves from that union we so much value, rather than give up the rights of self government which we have reserved, and in which alone we see liberty, safety and happiness." During the presidential term of Andrew Jackson, South Carolina had its own semi-secession movement due to the 1828 "Tariffs of Abomination" which threatened both South Carolina's economy and the Union. Secession became more paramount with the U.S. Civil War between the northern and southern states. And as late as 2009, Texas Governor Rick Perry declared he was going to put in motion proceedings to have Texas leave the union.

With some regularity, various cities, counties and states want to rid themselves of being governed by a higher government and want to go it alone by seceding. The Florida Keys attempted to colorfully secede from United States rule in 1982 and wanted to become the Conch Republic. Some were more serious than others in the movement, however ultimately, none of these efforts have proved successful. This is mostly due to the Supreme Court ruling that a successful secession effort would need to be done either through armed revolution or via a consent of all the other states in the union.

 

[anon45]

Some one said long ago " Afghanistan is a graveyard of great empires"

The general perception is that the real american race (caucasian) feels dejected over romny's defeat. Obama didnt do wonders to the economy, jobless rate has risen.

I am unable to comprehend this behavior of american people, why and what have made them sign these petitions.

Even though 57%~ of Obama's voters were caucasian? This 'real American race' stuff is bullshit, and exactly what the racists want you to believe. America was not built on the idea of a national ethnicity, at the very least it isn't these days.

It is a fact that Caucasians are the largest race in the US, but it is not monolith by any means.

As for the why on signing these petitions? griping, nothing more. If it was something more it would be lobbied at the state legislature instead of signing a petition, and if it had to be now, we would see violent shootouts instead of this.

 

[darkinsky]

I wonder why the management is letting the sensational, but totally wrong title of the thread to persist? Or may be the answer to that question is quite evident.

so VCheng what will be your new nationality, or you gonna escape to pakistan again after the white supremacists try to kick you out?

 

[VCheng]

so VCheng what will be your new nationality, or you gonna escape to pakistan again after the white supremacists try to kick you out?

By the time that happens, I will be on Tatooine!

 

[The Green1]

Even though 57%~ of Obama's voters were caucasian? This 'real American race' stuff is bullshit, and exactly what the racists want you to believe. America was not built on the idea of a national ethnicity, at the very least it isn't these days.

It is a fact that Caucasians are the largest race in the US, but it is not monolith by any means.

As for the why on signing these petitions? griping, nothing more. If it was something more it would be lobbied at the state legislature instead of signing a petition, and if it had to be now, we would see violent shootouts instead of this.

In other words, you are saying it is an outcry by a few of romny's hard core supporters who could not accept his defeat?

Can you please tell me which is the real american race ? black people came from west indies, africa, then south asians, japanese and latinos . As far as my limited knowledge is concerned the beginning races were either red indians or caucasians and some how they do feel superlative then others. It is another thing that american constitution is against racism.

 

[Hammer-fist]

I am suggesting America will not break up EVER unless a Civil war broke out or the Congress and President itself dissolve, Secession is not something their citizens can do

EDIT: In italic

Secession is precisely what the original 13 American states did by seceding from the British Empire against the will of the British.

If enough people want independence/secession in a certain region (I am not even referring to these petitions, 25,000 doesn't mean much in states with millions of people, nor can it be completely ignored) then at the very least Washington has to address their concerns.

Washington could never forcibly keep a state against its will if the vast majority there wanted independence.

The hypocritical US calls this the right of "self-determination" and encourages it when it breaks up other countries around the world, but somehow this right doesn't extend to American citizens themselves?

 

[The Green1]

I am thinking if some how the states do brake up .. How will the natural resources will be shared? the oil wells , nuclear power plants, dams, mines, etc etc. lol who will get the federal reserve ?

 

[Hammer-fist]

Nothing new for those petitioning secession from the union - West Palm Beach Libertarian | Examiner.com

Yes it's nothing new, so the fact that it has existed before (but not quite like this in the public conscience) actually goes against the claim that secession could never happen.

The fact that a governor of a US state even suggested secession 3 years ago (Perry in Texas) comes as a shock to even me. So if that is possible then even more is possible in post-depression USA.

Anyway everything is dependent on the performance of the economy.

In Europe yesterday you had Europe-wide riots.

We will have to see what happens if the American economy deteriorates even further.

I am thinking if some how the states do brake up .. How will the natural resources will be shared? the oil wells , nuclear power plants, dams, mines, etc etc. lol who will get the federal reserve ?

Who will get the airforce and the drones that bomb overseas countries like Pakistan?

Who will inherit the US bases in Japan and South Korea?

 

[The Green1]

Who will get the airforce and the drones that bomb overseas countries like Pakistan?

Who will inherit the US bases in Japan and South Korea?

they will be used for commerical activity

 

[DRaisinHerald]

Farce;

you're all wasting time discussing this. The US isn't going to break anytime soon; even 'democracy' has it's limits. Military power, of course, is the last resort if things do go unexpectedly.

 

[Obambam]

Dude, you don't know anything about America, it's the right to bear arm that brought us together, we have the right to bear arms said so in the constitution. This is a part of our society.
You cannot compare the United States and country like Syria

Gun law should never be in practise in the United State, we should let our citizens choose whether you want to use your second amendment right, if you don't like gun, you can just don't buy them, but it will be plain wrong if the government told you you cannot buy them. Citizens should have the right to choose.

I respect your opinion. Problem with America is they have been unconstitutional for quite sometime now. Having already breached several other amendments (1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th). Examples include; cops unlawful conduct during peaceful protests, breaking in without warrant, detaining reporters, TSA refusing rights to have a private search just to name a few. So having UN take away American citizen's guns is merely adding to one of many that was already breached. As soon as the guns gone, taking away the rest would be easy. America will just erode away into a police state. I can understand your frustrations in this regard.