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1965 Indo-Pak War chronicles: Maj. Gen. G. D. Bakshi speaks

He doesn't need a burkha does he lol

If you are talking about softening the impact on the general public, he does.

But jokes apart, I was sad to see that instead of engaging with his ideas, claims and outlook, people were insulting his appearance and his character and personality. I don't like the man, or his theatricals, but I'd rather rip up his ideas. That's my only point.
 
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If you are talking about softening the impact on the general public, he does.

But jokes apart, I was sad to see that instead of engaging with his ideas, claims and outlook, people were insulting his appearance and his character and personality. I don't like the man, or his theatricals, but I'd rather rip up his ideas. That's my only point.
As i said before. I don't take this place seriously and even this general. He is a has been. His ideas yet are now irrelevant. Let him waffle.
 
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As i said before. I don't take this place seriously and even this general. He is a has been. His ideas yet are now irrelevant. Let him waffle.

I was advised, just a few days ago, that I should use what talents I have to be helpful to people, to avoid anger, to contribute positively, and to work for universal dignity in my country, peace with others, and positive feelings towards all human beings. These are not the exact words but they are ringing in my ears since then. I would like to help all my friends, and lead them to positive and constructive discussions, and I would like to stay away from destructive ones.

In that light, my reaction is that we should take whatever positive can be taken out of this. If there is nothing, then let us leave the wretched thing alone.
 
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I was advised, just a few days ago, that I should use what talents I have to be helpful to people, to avoid anger, to contribute positively, and to work for universal dignity in my country, peace with others, and positive feelings towards all human beings. These are not the exact words but they are ringing in my ears since then. I would like to help all my friends, and lead them to positive and constructive discussions, and I would like to stay away from destructive ones.

In that light, my reaction is that we should take whatever positive can be taken out of this. If there is nothing, then let us leave the wretched thing alone.
I think you have excellent advice and you should do that.
 
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I had hoped for some responses specific to the presentation by General Bakshi. Touching on your own comments,
  • I do not know who almost lost Punjab to Pakistan, unless you are referring to the different outlooks of the COAS, General Chaudhuri, and his GOC-in-C, General Harbaksh Singh; what that had to do with General Bakshi's presentation is not clear to me
1965 War, the Inside Story by R.D. Pradhan:

In Chapter 8 titled "Of Cowardice and Panic", the author describes the cowardice of Maj. Gen. Niranjan Prasad, the Indian general commanding officer in Lahore sector. When the general was fired upon by Pakistani forces, he "ran away". "On learning that, Lt. Gen. Harbakash Singh and the corps commander drove in a Jonga to the battlefront. Army commander found that the enemy (PAF) air attack had created a havoc on G.T. Road. (Indian) Vehicles were burning and several vehicles of 15 Division abandoned on the road, the drivers having run away, leaving some of the engines still running. Maj. Gen. Niranjan Prasad was hiding in a recently irrigated sugar cane field. As described by Harabakash Singh: "He (Prasad) came out to receive us, with his boots covered with wet mud. He had no head cover, nor was he wearing any badges of his rank. He had stubble on his face, not having shaved." Seeing him in such a stage, Harbakhash Singh asked him: "Whether he was the General Officer commanding a division or a coolie? Why had he removed badges of rank and not shaved? Niranjan Prasad had no answer."

Pradhan's book contains many different entries by Indian Defense Minister Y.B. Chavan. A Sept 9, 1965 entry reads: Had a very hard day on all fronts. Very fierce counter-attacks mounted and we are required to withdraw in Kasur area. COAS was somewhat uncertain of himself. I suggested to him that he should go in forward areas so that he will be in touch of realities. He said he would go next day.

In Line of Duty: A Soldier Remembers, Lt Gen Harbakhsh Singh reveals that not only did Gen Chowdhury play a very small role in the entire campaign, he was so nervous as to be on the verge of losing half of Punjab to Pakistan, including the city of Amritsar. Harbakhsh describes, in clinical detail, how our own offensive in the Lahore sector had come unhinged. The general commanding the division on Ichchogil canal fled in panic, leaving his jeep, its wireless running and the briefcase containing sensitive documents that were then routinely read on Radio Pakistan during the war. Singh wanted to court martial him, Chowdhury let him get away with resignation.

According to Shekhar Gupta, the editor of Indian Express, Harbkhash Singh recounts that a bigger disaster struck a bit to the south where the other division cracked up in assault, just as it encountered a bit of resistance. Several infantry battalions, short on battle inoculation, deserted and Singh gives a hair-raising account – and confirmation of a long-debated rumor – that Chowdhury panicked so badly he ordered him to withdraw to a new defensive line behind the Beas, thereby conceding half of Punjab to Pakistan. Singh describes the conversation with Chowdhury at Ambala where he refused to carry out the order, asking his chief to either put it down in writing or visit the front and take charge of the battle.



  • [*]I thought the Starfighters were the best aircraft in either country's line-up


  • They werent however they had a psychological effect of indian airforce...


  • Starfighters only had speed... poor sustained turn performance anda very limited range among other problems.... it also first flew in early 53.


  • The Luftwaffe called Startfighter... the Widow Maker.

  • The final tally was the loss of 292 of the 916 Starfighters and the death of 115 pilots.



    [*]Sabres were from the late 40s; so were Hawker Hunters, and the Gnat, that Sajjad Haider claims was not much good, from the 50s.


  • India had numerical and even technical superiority... you had gnats,mig-21s and other ACs..

  • The point about the Afghan attacks on Pakistan is not very clear.

According to Gen Bakshi india was scared of chinese so couldnt divert all assets to Pak theater.... same applies to Pak... the afghans had invaded Pak and occupied FATA several times... only to be repulsed..
 
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Then don't question what ALLAH has told us ("Shaheed is alive you don't know about it" is a verse in Quran) ......... its true for us, you can deny it and treat it as our fairy tale. Simple to agree I think?

Ahh going by beliefs, then no one dies. Some enjoy in heaven, some toll out in hell.

I personally do not believe soldiers go to heaven, though everyone tend to believe theirs are. They fight for materialistic things, in what God shall be least interested.
 
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You could have said all this in the first place.

1965 War, the Inside Story by R.D. Pradhan:

In Chapter 8 titled "Of Cowardice and Panic", the author describes the cowardice of Maj. Gen. Niranjan Prasad, the Indian general commanding officer in Lahore sector. When the general was fired upon by Pakistani forces, he "ran away". "On learning that, Lt. Gen. Harbakash Singh and the corps commander drove in a Jonga to the battlefront. Army commander found that the enemy (PAF) air attack had created a havoc on G.T. Road. (Indian) Vehicles were burning and several vehicles of 15 Division abandoned on the road, the drivers having run away, leaving some of the engines still running. Maj. Gen. Niranjan Prasad was hiding in a recently irrigated sugar cane field. As described by Harabakash Singh: "He (Prasad) came out to receive us, with his boots covered with wet mud. He had no head cover, nor was he wearing any badges of his rank. He had stubble on his face, not having shaved." Seeing him in such a stage, Harbakhash Singh asked him: "Whether he was the General Officer commanding a division or a coolie? Why had he removed badges of rank and not shaved? Niranjan Prasad had no answer."

Pradhan's book contains many different entries by Indian Defense Minister Y.B. Chavan. A Sept 9, 1965 entry reads: Had a very hard day on all fronts. Very fierce counter-attacks mounted and we are required to withdraw in Kasur area. COAS was somewhat uncertain of himself. I suggested to him that he should go in forward areas so that he will be in touch of realities. He said he would go next day.

In Line of Duty: A Soldier Remembers, Lt Gen Harbakhsh Singh reveals that not only did Gen Chowdhury play a very small role in the entire campaign, he was so nervous as to be on the verge of losing half of Punjab to Pakistan, including the city of Amritsar. Harbakhsh describes, in clinical detail, how our own offensive in the Lahore sector had come unhinged. The general commanding the division on Ichchogil canal fled in panic, leaving his jeep, its wireless running and the briefcase containing sensitive documents that were then routinely read on Radio Pakistan during the war. Singh wanted to court martial him, Chowdhury let him get away with resignation.

According to Shekhar Gupta, the editor of Indian Express, Harbkhash Singh recounts that a bigger disaster struck a bit to the south where the other division cracked up in assault, just as it encountered a bit of resistance. Several infantry battalions, short on battle inoculation, deserted and Singh gives a hair-raising account – and confirmation of a long-debated rumor – that Chowdhury panicked so badly he ordered him to withdraw to a new defensive line behind the Beas, thereby conceding half of Punjab to Pakistan. Singh describes the conversation with Chowdhury at Ambala where he refused to carry out the order, asking his chief to either put it down in writing or visit the front and take charge of the battle.



  • They werent however they had a psychological effect of indian airforce...

  • Starfighters only had speed... poor sustained turn performance anda very limited range among other problems.... it also first flew in early 53.

  • The Luftwaffe called Startfighter... the Widow Maker.

  • The final tally was the loss of 292 of the 916 Starfighters and the death of 115 pilots.



  • India had numerical and even technical superiority... you had gnats,mig-21s and other ACs..

According to Gen Bakshi india was scared of chinese so couldnt divert all assets to Pak theater.... same applies to Pak... the afghans had invaded Pak and occupied FATA several times... only to be repulsed..
 
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