1962 would have been different had IAF been in the offence: ACM

[Secur]

you read the news, what you look for.

Economic issues are more important... ask the man on the street.

Nah , of course I do not read your news ... But still I see these sort of " what-if " and some " supposed however random bravery " reports every other day here combined with some Indian fan boy declaring victory and making a vulcan salute !

 

[OrionHunter]

And how and when exactly did you kill some 400 PLA soldiers with dozens of gun positions and bunkers destroyed that too in a single day ?

How exactly? From the horse's mouth. From the commanders who served there. This figure of 400 is according to Chinese estimates. There were probably many more casualties on their side which they haven't divulged. Knowing Chinese propaganda and secrecy, the casualty figure could have been around 1000. Now take a peek at this. (why am I even bothering to reply to this drivel?)
The Nathula Skirmish

The 1967 Sino-Indian skirmish also known as the Chola incident, was a day-long military conflict between Indian troops and members of the Chinese People's Liberation Army in Sikkim, who had infiltrated the area. The end of the battle saw the People's Liberation Army leave Sikkim.

Please don't twaddle when you know squat about these operations. The Chola and Nathula incidents are two different skirmishes. The casualties of 5 killed was at Chola and not Nathula.

But keep telling that alternate history though , your countrymen seem to love them ...

That's actually your habit of telling alternate history regarding the stupendous successes of the PA in defeating the Indian Army in 1947, 1965, 1971 and Kargil and your countrymen seem to love it! But hey, how come even after all those victories, Kashmir is still with India? WTF? That sucks!

 

[Secur]

How exactly? From the horse's mouth. From the commanders who served there. This figure of 400 is according to Chinese estimates. There were probably many more casualties on their side which they haven't divulged. Knowing Chinese propaganda and secrecy, the casualty figure could have been around 1000. Now take a peek at this. (why am I even bothering to reply to this twaddle?)
The Nathula Skirmish


Don't talk bull when you know squat about these operations. The Chola and Nathula incidents are two different skirmishes. The casualties of 5 killed was at Chola and not Nathula.

But hey, how come even after all those victories, Kashmir is still with India? WTF? That sucks!

You get me an Indian source claiming 400 PLA killed in border skirmishes afterwards '62 war and ask me and everyone else to believe it ? ... Where exactly is a credible link or source for the Chinese estimates as claimed by a random commander in the article when both sides showed military restraint and 5 soldiers in total were killed in the first one ? ... There's not even a slight mention of anyone being killed at Nathu La pass in '67 ... Let me spoon feed you , collectively , whatever happened along LAC in '67 is referred to everywhere as Chola incident whether it be at Ladakh or NE , now that can be military deployments , logistics , occupation of certain passes and in the end diffusal ... How hard would that be for you to understand ? ... Yeah I do not know squat when you are the one making ridiculous claims all the time ...

This is what you wrote !

PLA received at the hands of the Indian Army in 1967 at Nathula and Chola where more than 400 PLA troops were massacred and dozens of gun positions and pillboxes destroyed!

Of course , you shouldn't have bothered to reply me and continued with the alternate history ...

Is it ? All of it ?

 

[SamranAli]

and blah blah.... now whatever you say doesnt matter

 

[Pakchina]

The outcome of the 1962 war with China would have been different had the Air Force been used in an offensive role, Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne said here today on the conflict in which India suffered a humiliating defeat.

He said the Kargil conflict of 1999 would have dragged for another three months had the IAF not been used.

"Yes, no doubts about that. If air power was used at that time, the outcome would have been totally different," he said when asked if the result of the 1962 war would have been different had air power been used.

The IAF chief was addressing the annual Air Force Day press conference.

The issue of IAF not being used in the 1962 war is still debated by military historians and experts and there is no clarity as to why the air force was not used in that war.

Browne said IAF was not allowed to be used in an offensive role and confined only to provide transport support to the Army and said "these are open and glaring lessons we should have imbibed".

"But this time, I can assure you there will be no such limitation. The IAF will play a leading role in not just against that or any other sector but anywhere," the IAF chief said.

He said a seminar will be held on October 26 to discuss if the result of the 1962 war would have been different had the IAF been used and "we are convinced that that it would have been different."

Taking credit for ending the Kargil war, Browne said, "If IAF had not got into the war at right point of time offensively, the Kargil conflict would have continued for another three months at those impossible heights for our young jawans and officers to be climbing up and losing lives.

"It is air power, which concluded that war."


1962 would have been different had IAF been in the offence: ACM - The Economic Times

Similarly if Chinese Air Force had been in the offence, 1962 would be worst for India. There are many if, if we speculate, if India had not been supplied by USSR weapons, India would have suffered more humiliations against the burgeoning Pakistanese Army, if India today could not have accessed to US weaponry and support, it would have remained silent etc

Wikipedia Quote:
During the conflict, Nehru wrote two desperate letters to U.S. President John F. Kennedy, requesting 12 squadrons of fighter jets and a modern radar system. These jets were seen as necessary to beef up Indian air strength so that air to air combat could be initiated safely from the Indian perspective (bombing troops was seen as unwise for fear of Chinese retaliatory action). Nehru also asked that these aircraft be manned by American pilots until Indian airmen were trained to replace them. These requests were rejected by the Kennedy Administration (which was involved in the Cuban Missile Crisis during most of the Sino-Indian War). According to former Indian diplomat G Parthasarathy, "only after we got nothing from the US did arms supplies from the Soviet Union to India commence." In 1962, President of Pakistan Ayub Khan made clear to India that Indian troops could safely be transferred from the Pakistan frontier to the Himalayas.

 

[SinoChallenger]

This kind of winning threads by Indians proves that CHINA did some serious butt kicking in 62 so much so that Indians are still butt hurt. CHINA simply defended her legitimate territory from Hegemonist nehru who had his dirty eyes on Tibet. Indians should be rather grateful that the chinese spared the NE out of mercy which in my opinion was their biggest blunder. People of NE are still undergoing hell by the babus in Delhi.

Yes, we blundered. We should have dealt with indians like Timur, Ghori and Ghazni. Feel so guilty for the suffering of Assamese, Manipurese, Sikkimese and all others.

 

[Seaman]

Chini hindi vai vai

 

[Tshering22]

अब मुर्दों को उखाड़ने से क्या लाभ?

Better to learn from past mistakes and prepare well in the future. Thought Chola incident was satisfying in its own way as a small compensation, we still need to be alert. Communists are not trustworthy at all.

 

[rashtriya.rifles]

Chola incident taught the chinese that they cannot rely solely on japanese ancestry

 

[Edevelop]

You cannot depend everything on the Air Force. A country needs to have an Army and the Air force to balance it out. Air force is for striking targets and the Army is for gaining control of your objectives tangibly. India has problems on this sort of co-operation.

 

[KRAIT]

Not really. Rape was done by those invaders and tried to convert Hindus, many did, but many remained Hindus as we speak.

Its despicable that an Indian is using Nanjing incident (one of the worst war crimes recorded, can only be compared to what Nazis did and what happened in Operation Searchlight) and a Chinese using rapes by Western invaders (you guys were also invaded by Mongols and the reason of China wall is well known. One can argue that the invaders' ancestry is still there)

Don't say "he started first".

Both events were worst. Better if you all start reading what happened to other one, then they can find the crimes that were committed against others. You won't use these events as an argument again. You will find some sympathy for each other.

 

[mfreak]

Debatable. What if China responded with its own air force?

During the conflict, Nehru wrote two desperate letters to U.S. President John F. Kennedy, requesting 12 squadrons of fighter jets and a modern radar system. These jets were seen as necessary to beef up Indian air strength so that air to air combat could be initiated safely from the Indian perspective (bombing troops was seen as unwise for fear of Chinese retaliatory action). Nehru also asked that these aircraft be manned by American pilots until Indian airmen were trained to replace them. These requests were rejected by the Kennedy Administration.

Fact is we were unprepared, poorly equipped, and we didnt have the men to shoot/fight back. It was a political, military and intelligence failure. When you make every mistake to lose a war, you cant expect to win it. Even Sri Lanka will beat us in such conditions

But today, the situation is different. I think the IAF has more combat experience, and better combat tested planes. The PLAAF has almost twice the number of planes India does, which have never been pitted against any other air force, so impossible to judge their true capabilities. But I think if such a war breaks out again, it will eventually end in a stalemate as I am sure both India and China dont want prolonged wars that can affect their economies.

As for people mocking China's past tragedies. Please. Its shameful to bring it up. What the Japanese did to the Chinese is unimaginable. Reading about them makes me shudder. We shouldnt wish such things even for rivals or enemies.

 

[SinoChallenger]

Not really. Rape was done by those invaders and tried to convert Hindus, many did, but many remained Hindus as we speak.

Its despicable that an Indian is using Nanjing incident (one of the worst war crimes recorded, can only be compared to what Nazis did and what happened in Operation Searchlight) and a Chinese using rapes by Western invaders (you guys were also invaded by Mongols and the reason of China wall is well known. One can argue that the invaders' ancestry is still there)

Don't say "he started first".

Both events were worst. Better if you all start reading what happened to other one, then they can find the crimes that were committed against others. You won't use these events as an argument again. You will find some sympathy for each other.

indians kept talking about Nanjing because most Chinese are too ignorant to know anything about the history of the subcontinent. They think indians are humiliated by the Anglo colonization but truth is indians are okay with that.

But you indians were unfortunate enough to meet me -- a Chinese smart enough to figure out why you indians are so obsessed with massive waves of conquerors coming to destroy an entire civilization and subjugate everybody. It's because you had the "unfortunate" experience for 800 years!

 

[KRAIT]

Tell that to your Indian friends who like to bring it up all the time.
This is about the 1000th time that Indians here have laughed about war rape.
But you guys can't look in a mirror and see that being Hindu has nothing to do with DNA.
It is you guys who start it, I am only showing you the mirror.

I know buddy, but you also see Sino's and others post too. 1000 years rule is mentioned way more than Nanjing and you know that. I already explained how worse the nanjing incident was and I recommend him to see Christian Bale's movie on this incident.

That's why I said dont give who started it first. Some starts in the thread ans some gets carried from previous threads. That's the endless cycle.

I personally don't like mentioning of Nanjing and Operation Searchlight after reading and watching what exactly happened.

 

[KRAIT]

indians kept talking about Nanjing because most Chinese are too ignorant to know anything about the history of the subcontinent. They think indians are humiliated by the Anglo colonization but truth is indians are okay with that.
But you indians were unfortunate enough to meet me -- a Chinese smart enough to figure out why you indians are so obsessed with massive waves of conquerors coming to destroy an entire civilization and subjugate everybody. It's because you had the "unfortunate" experience for 800 years!

You can call 800 years of unfortunate years, agreed, but Indians got adapted and finally learnt the meaning of unity which was very much needed. But India also inculcated and become a unique society with all the religions, and so many cultures that we think India as a mini world.

Indians hate Anglo Colonization and we kicked them out with nonviolence. An empire defeated by hunger strikes, marches and boycotting.

What present world is experiencing is same influence of English or Western people. Don't say people in China are not adopting Western concepts and cultures. Or people working in companies owned by Japanese.

I don't think more than 20 Indian members knows about Nanjing and even if they do, they don't now the extent of the cruelty that was done.