1904 China map admits Paracel, Spratly not Chinese territory

[Snomannen]

Forget about Paracels, Vietnam belongs to China.... not as a province, but as a mere vassal state. We enslaved you for 1000 years because our wise ancestors saw your inferiority and exploited it

Y U NO keep silent?

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Forget about Paracels, Vietnam belongs to China.... not as a province, but as a mere vassal state. We enslaved you for 1000 years because our wise ancestors saw your inferiority and exploited it

Yes, Vietnam was a vassal state of China for about 1000 years and therefore we have controlled both Paracels and Spratlys during hundreds of years without being harassed by china, until after WW2.

And a vassal state it does not mean that Vietnam's territory would belong to China.

 

[Nestea]

So provide me a map before 1904 that had those islands. The problem is you Chinese can't provide something like that

Some of our maps:

1838 maps

Western map, Brion de la Tour, 1774


Text:

1776 book that described about our "Paracel Teams". Their misson was settling the sovereignty over Paracel, patrolling and exploiting in Paracel.















I have more than 100 old Western books which affirm Vietnamese sovereign over Paracels, pm me if you need some more evidences. It means that when the Westerners came, they saw that Vietnamese govs and people are administrating Paracels archipelago, not Chinese. Then they wrote what they saw.

So, wanna discuss about "history" side, Chinese?

Five parties of the South China Sea dispute revolves around the Nansha Islands, Your examples are the Xisha Islands, No Nansha Islands! Which maps to the Nansha Islands belong to Vietnam? 1774 map, the real location depicted is more accurate, Vietnam's so-called Hoang Sa and Truong Sa are close to the islands of the coast of Vietnam, How could the Nansha Islands?

 

[EastSea]

Five parties of the South China Sea dispute revolves around the Nansha Islands, Your examples are the Xisha Islands, No Nansha Islands! Which maps to the Nansha Islands belong to Vietnam? 1774 map, the real location depicted is more accurate, Vietnam's so-called Hoang Sa and Truong Sa are close to the islands of the coast of Vietnam, How could the Nansha Islands?

Can you read Han chinese ? In the Nguyen Dynasty we used also Han Chinese for writing. For demonstration the Islands belong to Viet is clear enough.

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

Five parties of the South China Sea dispute revolves around the Nansha Islands, Your examples are the Xisha Islands, No Nansha Islands! Which maps to the Nansha Islands belong to Vietnam?

See above (EastSea's image)
Trying to avoid Paracels? So it means you have agreed that our sovereignty over Paracels is right

1774 map, the real location depicted is more accurate, Vietnam's so-called Hoang Sa and Truong Sa are close to the islands of the coast of Vietnam, How could the Nansha Islands?

Y U NO read?

A little gift from the French

Traité élémentaire de géographie: contenant un abrégé méthodique de Précis ... - Conrad Malte-Brun - Google Books

The French book "Traité élémentaire de géographie: contenant un abrégé méthodique du Précis de la géographie universelle en huit volumes" (volume 2) was published in Paris, 1831. Page 221 said that: "equal-spaced between Hainan and Cochinchina, Paracels archipelago was depended on Annam Empire". "A une egale distance de la cote de Cochinchine et de l'ile d'Hai-nan, l'archipel de Paracels est une dependance de l'empire d'Annam"

See? It said "Equal-spaced between Hainan and Cochinchina (Vietnam)"
The map-drawing technique in that period was still poor, so the map can't provide the extract distance. That's why we need texts to back-up our maps. Got it?


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BTW, where are your maps and texts? Where are your evidences and sources? What is the base of your buffalo's tongue claim? Y U NO show them?

 

[starbuck]

Five parties of the South China Sea dispute revolves around the Nansha Islands, Your examples are the Xisha Islands, No Nansha Islands! Which maps to the Nansha Islands belong to Vietnam? 1774 map, the real location depicted is more accurate, Vietnam's so-called Hoang Sa and Truong Sa are close to the islands of the coast of Vietnam, How could the Nansha Islands?

Do you see on Complete map of Unified Great Viet Nam or by Chinese 大南一統全圖 , an official map by National History Institue of Nguyen Dynasty, published in 1838)? Near the Vietnam's coastline, our ancestors mark two archipelagos separately: 黄沙 (Hoàng Sa, Cát Vàng or Yellow Sandbank) and 萬里長沙 (Vạn Lý Trường Sa, Ten-thousand-league Long Sandbank or Trường Sa).

And we use two archipelagos's name until today. Where in your old books and maps shown Nansha? Xisha?

Just show us and we'll continue talk!

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

Forget about Paracels, Vietnam belongs to China.... not as a province, but as a mere vassal state. We enslaved you for 1000 years because our wise ancestors saw your inferiority and exploited it

Really, Forget about Paracels, Spartly and Senkaku, China belongs to Japan... not as a province, but as a mere vassal state and/or dominated area in World War 2. They enslaved you because their wise ancestors saw that you will invade our islands in the future

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Five parties of the South China Sea dispute revolves around the Nansha Islands, Your examples are the Xisha Islands, No Nansha Islands! Which maps to the Nansha Islands belong to Vietnam? 1774 map, the real location depicted is more accurate, Vietnam's so-called Hoang Sa and Truong Sa are close to the islands of the coast of Vietnam, How could the Nansha Islands?

With the knowledge and tools at the time it is difficult to paint a map with accuracy rate as today. But look at the map of Vietnam in 1838, you can read Chinese characters notes on the two archipelagos that mean "Hoang Sa" (Paracels) and "Van Ly Truong Sa" (Spratlys).
Also Vietnam is still much documentations say about the Vietnamese feudal state had set up "team of Hoang Sa" to control and exploit Hoang Sa Islands (Paracels).

Below is is some example pages that talks about the Paracel Islands of Vietnam in the book "Đại Nam thực lục chính biên":
Note: At the time, the Vietnamese feudal state also used Chinese characters for the texts of its.

Vietnamese documents have recorded about the implementation of Vietnam's sovereignty over the Paracel Islands.

 

[artie]

The so-called South China Sea has never belonged to the Chinese.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

The so-called South China Sea has never belonged to the Chinese.

Yes, that's only a name that westerners call it. It does not make sense of sovereignty.
We can refer to the Indian Ocean, which does not mean that it belongs to India.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

A map of China under the Qing Dynasty in 1910 which also showed that China had nothing to concern to two archipelagos Paracels and Spratlys of Vietnam:

 

[the_islander]

Until now, I see no chinese in this thread show their "evidences" of Spratlys and Paracels. LOL. are they trying keeping secret to surpise us ? what a style of debate !!!

 

[kankan326]

Until now, I see no chinese in this thread show their "evidences" of Spratlys and Paracels. LOL. are they trying keeping secret to surpise us ? what a style of debate !!!

There is an old Chinese saying: “普天之下莫非王土”。Do you know the meaning of it? It means" All lands under the sky belong to the great Chinese emperor". That concept had been widely accepted by all Chinese for thousands years. So ancient Chinese had no motivation to draw their border line on map. It's a useless work for them. Ancient Chinese took it for granted that the land they found belongs to Chinese.

It's quite obvious that islands in SCS were first discovered by Ancient Chinese. Ancient Chinese were far more advanced in navigation field. When Chinese ancestors crossed SCS and got to Arab countries and other SEA countries by their huge ships. Vietnamese could barely leave their coast line with their shabby boats.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...y-not-chinese-territory-14.html#ixzz21uyCEl9X

 

[ComeAtMeBro]

There is an old Chinese saying: “普天之下莫非王土”。Do you know the meaning of it? It means" All lands under the sky belong to the great Chinese emperor". That concept had been widely accepted by all Chinese for thousands years. So ancient Chinese had no motivation to draw their border line on map. It's a useless work for them. Ancient Chinese took it for granted that the land they found belongs to Chinese.

It's quite obvious that islands in SCS were first discovered by Ancient Chinese. Ancient Chinese were far more advanced in navigation field. When Chinese ancestors crossed SCS and got to Arab countries and other SEA countries by their huge ships. Vietnamese could barely leave their coast line with their shabby boats.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...y-not-chinese-territory-14.html#ixzz21uyCEl9X

So because your ancestors declare that every land is theirs, you really took it literaly?
Now we know the reason why your government are afraid to take it into international court

China is one hell of a funny nation

My ancestors once declare that the world owe him a sports car

 

[kankan326]

So because your ancestors declare that every land is theirs, you really took it literaly?
Now we know the reason why your government are afraid to take it into international court

China is one hell of a funny nation

My ancestors once declare that the world owe him a sports car

Don't misunderstand me, pal. In ancient time, the concept of "天下“（whole world) is different with today's. It's far more smaller one. Ancient people's ability to recognize the world is very limited. Actually this kind of philosophy also existed in other cultures.

Also because ancient Chinese believed this is a small world, they got the courage to rule the "whole world". So at that time. all the known lands were either ruled by China, or became vassal states of it.