1904 China map admits Paracel, Spratly not Chinese territory

[Nestea]

1) Great, so now you have the map. And where are the islands in your "Long region"? There is not a single archipelago in your "long region", so definitely your argument is failed.
I asked you to find the archipelago in Central Vietnam which you think was mistaken with Paracels, not to find the sea.
You lost in number 1.
2) lol are you using ruler to measure the distance in old maps and then ... calculate? You failed
I asked you to find an archipelago that is equal-spaced between Hainan and Vietnamese coast in Central Vietnam, you haven't done it, so you still lost un number 2
3) Yes, the "scale" between Paracels, and Central Vietnamese coast is wrong because of bad technique. That what I've said a long time ago. Then?.
The fact is still there: No near-coast islands in Central Vietnam is equal-spaced between Vietnamese coast and Hainan.
Problem solved, you lost in number 3
4) You are confused with your number. It's 1838 map.
- We were never named An Nam officially, it's kind of "nick name" we used in diplomacy with China, because it was given by Tang dynasty. The Westerners also used that name. Our official names in Medieval age and Modern Age are Đại Cồ Việt -> Đại Việt -> Đại Ngu -> Đại Việt -> Việt Nam -> Đại Nam -> Việt Nam.
- It's drawn with the help Westerners so it had Latin characters.
- Jean-Louis Taberd drew it under Minh Mang of Nguyen Dynasty, then the map is re-printed in Dictionarium Latino-Annamiticum completum et novo ordine dispositum, 1838.
Any question?
That map definitely shows that Vietnamese Paracels is not Near-Coast islands. So you lost in number 4.
5) Your Chinese monks didn't go in sailing season (windy season), didn't go continuously without rest like us, didn't have the same kind of sailing boat. Why you can say what kind of boat did our Paracel Team use? Example are not matched, so your example is failed. With the favourable wind (so the boat can go around 4-6 nautical miles per hour) and go continuously, it's possible. Unless you have the data that say what kind of boat we used with its parameter, you can't deny the Paracel Team with "speed" argument.
6) Try to group this with your "speed" argument?

Yeah you have that "near-coast islands" here separated from Paracel. So your argument about "near-coast islands in the Central Vietnam" is invalid. You lost in number 6)
7) I see, you afraid of losing so you don't want to go to international court.
So you lost number 7).



Why the "real Paracel" is just next to the "Vietnamese near-coast islands", not even a small distance? :And then "real Paracel" is much more smaller in both size and quantity and less noticeable than "near-coast islands"

So it's completely not the real Paracel. Exactly it's Macclesfield Bank. We don't claim it.

I found that you always play hide and seek, and I obviously I have already explained things, you will "forget" The conversation no matter how much in vain. Last let me answer your amnesia Vietnam! Many Vietnamese can not read Chinese characters in the Vietnamese ancient books, resulting in the error of today's understanding of Vietnamese history. You can not understand the characters, how to pick up some old books or maps with Chinese characters, to challenge China? For example this theme, the mentally handicapped Vietnam can not read Chinese characters in this 1904 map, and thought it was China's entire territory. Do not know "直省" means the map is the direct jurisdiction of the Central Government.

"Pracel" (1613-1851):long bar area, rocks and sandbars composition. Whether Western or Chinese, Described as Viet Nam central coast of the danger zone,. There's a lot of rocks, sandbars and reefs, undercurrent complex, If the vessel strayed into, it is easy to run aground or become disoriented.

French missionaries Jean Louis Taberd "You say to help the Vietnamese drawn 1938 map of the Frenchman”,1837”Journal of Ryal Asiatic Society of Bengal”published papers, Entitled (Note on the Geography of Cochin China). The article describes: Paracel is a group of rocks and sandbars composed labyrinth, From latitude 11 ° to longitude 109 ° 10'.(Xisha Islands / latitude 16 °~17 °,longitude 111 °30 '~112 °42') Some sailors bravely crossed the part of the sandbar, Cannot be said to be cautious, in fact, is luck, While others attempt failed. Cochin Chinaman said these islands as "Cotuang". Although these islands there was nothing else in addition to rock and deep sea, And only cause inconvenience to no other benefits, However, "嘉隆" emperor thought that, Increase the land less, but also enlarge its territory. In 1816, he solemnly plug where the banner, and possession of these rocks, Estimates that there won't be anyone to the objection. Frenchman Jean Baptiste Chaigneau, Been confirmed in the article published in 1820 entitled "Cochinchina travelogue". He writes: Cochinchina, its king, now known as the Emperor, Including Cochinchina headquarters, Tokyo, part of the Khmer, Several inhabited islands not far from the coast and uninhabited sandbars, rocks composed of the Paracel Islands. It was until 1816 the current emperor took possession of the islands. Note the French missionaries"Jean Louis Taberd" described “Pracel”, Compared to help draw the 1838 Annan map, "Pracel" have a specific geographic coordinates. The geographical coordinates for the central Vietnam coast eastward extension of the danger zone(Describe and 1613 England captain consistent). Vietnam so-called precision-drawn 1838 the Annan map, "Pracel" is not the Xisha Islands, and not to mention the show Spratly Islands.

In 1795, the Chinese monk describe the danger zone(long bar area): “蓋洋海中,橫亘沙碛,起東北，直抵西南,高者壁立海上,低或水平,沙面粗硬如鉄,船一觸即成齑粉。闊百許里,長无箕,名萬里長沙,渺無草木如煙,一失 風水漂至,總從破壞,人無水米,亦成馁鬼矣”
Meaning: are in the sea, there are a lot of rocks, ranging from northeast to Southwest, Some in the rock sea level, some sink in water, the rocks surface as hard as steel, ship contact moments become fragmented. 100 km wide, length not marginal, name for the “萬里長沙” . even if they can avoid the reef, and if no fresh water and food, will eventually turn into a ghost!

October 2, 1835, Chinese students "蔡廷蘭" ,the examination is completed, From fujian to return to Taiwan , on the way encountered a typhoon In Marine drift up to 10 days, Finally to Viet Nam "廣義省" coastal "菜芹汛". The local fishermen are very surprised, Said: “非神靈神灵默護,胡能尔尔?初到小屿,屿東西众流激射,中一港甚窄,船非乘潮不得進,觸石立沉。由西而南,可抵内港,桅篷已滅,逆流不能到也。其東西一帶，至此稱極險,海底皆暗礁、暗线(海底石曰礁, 沙曰&#32218 ,線长數十里，港道迂迴,老漁尚不稔识,一抵礁,齑粉矣!”
Meaning: If you do not have gods protection, how can reach here. Undercurrent of many and intense, the water depth is very low, Undercurrent of many and intense, the water depth is very low, If not at high tide, boats can not pass through, Otherwise, hit the reef, it will be destroyed! Sailing from west to south, can reach the port, But the sails have been damaged, counter-current can not reach here. From east to west, Ship sailing is very dangerous, submarine there are many reefs. The reef rock area, tens of kilometers in length, Circuitous waterway, even if the old fisherman can not understand, if the reef is an encounter, the ship is turned into powder!

These records confirmed that the Danger zone very large range, and the sailing is extremely dangerous. Because unfortunately wrecked Shipwreck brought together here,Therefore, the Vietnamese emperor often Send people the salvage cargo, Published by the Vietnamese (Do Ba) "筹集天南四至路圖" in the "廣義地區图", This description: “阮氏每年冬季月持船十八只,來此取貨,多得金銀、錢幣、铳弹等物”. Meaning: Nguyen Thi winter organizations annually 18 ships, Come here to salvage sunken ships cargo, Most cargo is gold, silver and coins.

1776 "撫邊雜錄" describes: “廣義平山縣安永社大海門外有山名劬劳哩,廣可三十余里。舊有四政坊居民豆田,出海四更可到。其外大長沙島,舊多海物船貨,立黄沙隊以采之。 黄沙隊“每歲以正月受示行差，齋六月糧，駕私小釣船，出洋三日三夜，始至此島”，八月回至腰門，繳納所采諸物。

Means: “廣義平山縣安永社大海門” (Quảng Ngãi Bình Sơn)east of the reef area, Length of 30 kilometers. In this region in eastern have "大長沙島". Here there are many shipwrecks of cargo, So ,create “黄沙隊”go there to Salvage. Every January fleet accept command, carry six months of food, Driving” 小釣船”, Sailed three days and three nights, Reach island. Wait until August to return “腰門"(thị xã Thuận An), Payment of salvage cargo.

Each year in January, February, is the northeaster season (against the wind) . From Nguyen dynasty of the capital Hue arrived ”thị xã Thuận An”, Driving” 小釣船”. that time Boat speed is very slow, "A day and a night" as the calculating unit, Unlike big ships as "更" as the calculating unit. These small boat,also known as "淀舍船" or "紅船". According to the Chinese monks description: “監官撥紅船淀舍，名八头，運載行李，船頭坐一官，尾立一守舵者。每船棹軍共十四人，中設朱紅四柱龍架，横闊一木如梆子，一軍坐击之，棹聽以為節，船应左则左，应右则右，或耶许，或頓足，无一參錯者，悉以梆子命之”。“船長狭，狀如龍舟，昂首尾，丹漆之，不能容爨具。窃讶多人飲食，無所從出。”
Means: Can only carry 14 people, By human paddle as power, No Cooking utensils, no larger freshwater storage device, Only one bucket of water to provide drinking, sailing is not too long, must find a place to get fresh water. Therefore, Ride this ship from Viet Nam Central Coast Set sail, Can only reach the coast of Vietnam near the island, Can not reach far from the coast of Vietnam's Paracel Islands.

Ridiculous Vietnamese, can not read Vietnamese ancient books, come here to challenge the Chinese .Downwind sailing? 4-6km / h speed? Is all a lie! Like I said above : Many Vietnamese can not read Chinese characters in the Vietnamese ancient books, resulting in the error of today's understanding of Vietnamese history.


Macclesfield Bank: north latitude 15 ° 24 '~ 16 ° 15', longitude 113 ° 40 '~114 ° 57', All sunk under the sea, approximately 10~26 metres distance the Sea level. They are reefs, not Island. Does not match the geographic coordinates and the 1613 British Captain John Sullivan described "LES Lunet TES".(Xisha Islands / latitude 16 °~17 °,longitude 111 °30 '~112 °42') This is just some basic geographic knowledge, Vietnamese IQ failed to understand difference between islands and reefs, do not know what is the geographic coordinates. This is really the tragedy of the Vietnam Education!

 

[asean_2015]

For example this theme, the mentally handicapped Vietnam can not read Chinese characters in this 1904 map, and thought it was China's entire territory. Do not know "直省" means the map is the direct jurisdiction of the Central Government.

Is the following explaination right or wrong?

"直省" is the map of all provinces belonging to the empire and is the full map. The misssing parts in comparison to others or the full map of China now a days are only due to the fact that the Qing empire did not consider them as the Chinese territory at that time. Hence, Manchu region was not also considered as the Chinese territory.

 

[Snomannen]

I guess they did not get your idea of ''full map'', neither did I. For me, the map of all provinces belonging to the empire is a full map. The misssing parts in comparison to others or the full map of China now a days are only due to the fact that the Qing empire did not consider them as the Chinese territory at that time. Hence, Manchu region was not also considered as the Chinese territory. They could therefore found Manchukuo exactly in the historical homeland of the Manchus.

Of course the Qing Empire consider them as Chinese territory, how could those emperors not considered Manchu (the land that the dragon thrived) as their country's land?
Provinces were not the only administrative areas of the Empire, but also "autonomous regions" (Provinces not directly under control of the central government).
As for Manchukuo, it was not established by Manchu people, it was formed by Japanese. "Manchukuo" can never on behalf of the will of Manchu people.

Is the following explaination right or wrong?

"直省" is the map of all provinces belonging to the empire and is the full map. The misssing parts in comparison to others or the full map of China now a days are only due to the fact that the Qing empire did not consider them as the Chinese territory at that time. Hence, Manchu region was not also considered as the Chinese territory.

In Chinese language,

"省"= "provinces";

"直省" = "provinces directly(under control of the central government)"

 

[asean_2015]

Of course the Qing Empire consider them as Chinese territory, how could those emperors not considered Manchu (the land that the dragon thrived) as their country's land?
Provinces were not the only administrative areas of the Empire, but also "autonomous regions" (Provinces not directly under control of the central government).
As for Manchukuo, it was not established by Manchu people, it was formed by Japanese. "Manchukuo" can never on behalf of the will of Manchu people.



In Chinese language,

"省"= "provinces";

"直省" = "provinces directly(under control of the central government)"

I think it is more clear with provinces belonging to than ''Directly''. I did not hear province directly before.

The Manchu state was founded in the early 17th century. If the Qing empirors did not integrate it into China, it was still a state. That's why I said that Qing empirors did not consider their Manchu state as the terriory of China.

Manchukuo was formed by Qing Dynasty officials (Manchu people) with the help of Japanese. Puyi was also Manchu. So you cannot conclude that Manchukuo can never on behalf of the Manchu people.

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

I found that you always play hide and seek, and I obviously I have already explained things, you will "forget" The conversation no matter how much in vain. Last let me answer your amnesia Vietnam! Many Vietnamese can not read Chinese characters in the Vietnamese ancient books, resulting in the error of today's understanding of Vietnamese history. You can not understand the characters, how to pick up some old books or maps with Chinese characters, to challenge China? For example this theme, the mentally handicapped Vietnam can not read Chinese characters in this 1904 map, and thought it was China's entire territory. Do not know "直省" means the map is the direct jurisdiction of the Central Government.

"Pracel" (1613-1851):long bar area, rocks and sandbars composition. Whether Western or Chinese, Described as Viet Nam central coast of the danger zone,. There's a lot of rocks, sandbars and reefs, undercurrent complex, If the vessel strayed into, it is easy to run aground or become disoriented.

French missionaries Jean Louis Taberd "You say to help the Vietnamese drawn 1938 map of the Frenchman”,1837”Journal of Ryal Asiatic Society of Bengal”published papers, Entitled (Note on the Geography of Cochin China). The article describes: Paracel is a group of rocks and sandbars composed labyrinth, From latitude 11 ° to longitude 109 ° 10'.(Xisha Islands / latitude 16 °~17 °,longitude 111 °30 '~112 °42') Some sailors bravely crossed the part of the sandbar, Cannot be said to be cautious, in fact, is luck, While others attempt failed. Cochin Chinaman said these islands as "Cotuang". Although these islands there was nothing else in addition to rock and deep sea, And only cause inconvenience to no other benefits, However, "嘉隆" emperor thought that, Increase the land less, but also enlarge its territory. In 1816, he solemnly plug where the banner, and possession of these rocks, Estimates that there won't be anyone to the objection. Frenchman Jean Baptiste Chaigneau, Been confirmed in the article published in 1820 entitled "Cochinchina travelogue". He writes: Cochinchina, its king, now known as the Emperor, Including Cochinchina headquarters, Tokyo, part of the Khmer, Several inhabited islands not far from the coast and uninhabited sandbars, rocks composed of the Paracel Islands. It was until 1816 the current emperor took possession of the islands. Note the French missionaries"Jean Louis Taberd" described “Pracel”, Compared to help draw the 1838 Annan map, "Pracel" have a specific geographic coordinates. The geographical coordinates for the central Vietnam coast eastward extension of the danger zone(Describe and 1613 England captain consistent). Vietnam so-called precision-drawn 1838 the Annan map, "Pracel" is not the Xisha Islands, and not to mention the show Spratly Islands.

In 1795, the Chinese monk describe the danger zone(long bar area): “蓋洋海中,橫亘沙碛,起東北，直抵西南,高者壁立海上,低或水平,沙面粗硬如鉄,船一觸即成齑粉。闊百許里,長无箕,名萬里長沙,渺無草木如煙,一失 風水漂至,總從破壞,人無水米,亦成馁鬼矣”
Meaning: are in the sea, there are a lot of rocks, ranging from northeast to Southwest, Some in the rock sea level, some sink in water, the rocks surface as hard as steel, ship contact moments become fragmented. 100 km wide, length not marginal, name for the “萬里長沙” . even if they can avoid the reef, and if no fresh water and food, will eventually turn into a ghost!

October 2, 1835, Chinese students "蔡廷蘭" ,the examination is completed, From fujian to return to Taiwan , on the way encountered a typhoon In Marine drift up to 10 days, Finally to Viet Nam "廣義省" coastal "菜芹汛". The local fishermen are very surprised, Said: “非神靈神灵默護,胡能尔尔?初到小屿,屿東西众流激射,中一港甚窄,船非乘潮不得進,觸石立沉。由西而南,可抵内港,桅篷已滅,逆流不能到也。其東西一帶，至此稱極險,海底皆暗礁、暗线(海底石曰礁, 沙曰&#32218 ,線长數十里，港道迂迴,老漁尚不稔识,一抵礁,齑粉矣!”
Meaning: If you do not have gods protection, how can reach here. Undercurrent of many and intense, the water depth is very low, Undercurrent of many and intense, the water depth is very low, If not at high tide, boats can not pass through, Otherwise, hit the reef, it will be destroyed! Sailing from west to south, can reach the port, But the sails have been damaged, counter-current can not reach here. From east to west, Ship sailing is very dangerous, submarine there are many reefs. The reef rock area, tens of kilometers in length, Circuitous waterway, even if the old fisherman can not understand, if the reef is an encounter, the ship is turned into powder!

These records confirmed that the Danger zone very large range, and the sailing is extremely dangerous. Because unfortunately wrecked Shipwreck brought together here,Therefore, the Vietnamese emperor often Send people the salvage cargo, Published by the Vietnamese (Do Ba) "筹集天南四至路圖" in the "廣義地區图", This description: “阮氏每年冬季月持船十八只,來此取貨,多得金銀、錢幣、铳弹等物”. Meaning: Nguyen Thi winter organizations annually 18 ships, Come here to salvage sunken ships cargo, Most cargo is gold, silver and coins.

1776 "撫邊雜錄" describes: “廣義平山縣安永社大海門外有山名劬劳哩,廣可三十余里。舊有四政坊居民豆田,出海四更可到。其外大長沙島,舊多海物船貨,立黄沙隊以采之。 黄沙隊“每歲以正月受示行差，齋六月糧，駕私小釣船，出洋三日三夜，始至此島”，八月回至腰門，繳納所采諸物。

Means: “廣義平山縣安永社大海門” (Quảng Ngãi Bình Sơn)east of the reef area, Length of 30 kilometers. In this region in eastern have "大長沙島". Here there are many shipwrecks of cargo, So ,create “黄沙隊”go there to Salvage. Every January fleet accept command, carry six months of food, Driving” 小釣船”, Sailed three days and three nights, Reach island. Wait until August to return “腰門"(thị xã Thuận An), Payment of salvage cargo.

Each year in January, February, is the northeaster season (against the wind) . From Nguyen dynasty of the capital Hue arrived ”thị xã Thuận An”, Driving” 小釣船”. that time Boat speed is very slow, "A day and a night" as the calculating unit, Unlike big ships as "更" as the calculating unit. These small boat,also known as "淀舍船" or "紅船". According to the Chinese monks description: “監官撥紅船淀舍，名八头，運載行李，船頭坐一官，尾立一守舵者。每船棹軍共十四人，中設朱紅四柱龍架，横闊一木如梆子，一軍坐击之，棹聽以為節，船应左则左，应右则右，或耶许，或頓足，无一參錯者，悉以梆子命之”。“船長狭，狀如龍舟，昂首尾，丹漆之，不能容爨具。窃讶多人飲食，無所從出。”
Means: Can only carry 14 people, By human paddle as power, No Cooking utensils, no larger freshwater storage device, Only one bucket of water to provide drinking, sailing is not too long, must find a place to get fresh water. Therefore, Ride this ship from Viet Nam Central Coast Set sail, Can only reach the coast of Vietnam near the island, Can not reach far from the coast of Vietnam's Paracel Islands.

Ridiculous Vietnamese, can not read Vietnamese ancient books, come here to challenge the Chinese .Downwind sailing? 4-6km / h speed? Is all a lie! Like I said above : Many Vietnamese can not read Chinese characters in the Vietnamese ancient books, resulting in the error of today's understanding of Vietnamese history.


Macclesfield Bank: north latitude 15 ° 24 '~ 16 ° 15', longitude 113 ° 40 '~114 ° 57', All sunk under the sea, approximately 10~26 metres distance the Sea level. They are reefs, not Island. Does not match the geographic coordinates and the 1613 British Captain John Sullivan described "LES Lunet TES".(Xisha Islands / latitude 16 °~17 °,longitude 111 °30 '~112 °42') This is just some basic geographic knowledge, Vietnamese IQ failed to understand difference between islands and reefs, do not know what is the geographic coordinates. This is really the tragedy of the Vietnam Education!

I'm tired in discussing with a troll. You think that with that old technique people can have the exactly same ordinate as today? A shame on you
Your argument about the difference between reefs and islands: Even Paracel and Spartly have reefs, why they call them "islands", "archipelago"? If the small things you marked is "real Paracel", Why the "real Paracel" is just next to the "Vietnamese near-coast islands", not even a small distance? And then "real Paracel" is much more smaller in both size and quantity and less noticeable than "near-coast islands"? Because your "real Paracel" is just the reefs or bank near Paracels, less noticable, smaller in size and quantity. So it have to be Macclesfield Bank.
So now find the archipelago in Central Vietnam which you think was mistaken with Paracels. Such an easy question.

5) Why do you know the kind of boat you told is what the Paracel Team use? You can't prove Paracel Team use that kind of boat, so you failed. Your last argument has failed. Unless you have an evidence which said "Paracel Team used a boat which can go 2 km per hour", you are still failed.

You have lost 7 out of 7 arguments. You are just short in arguments so you have stopped to talk about 6 of them. You have failed.

6 points you have just avoided due to short in arguments:

1) Great, so now you have the map. And where are the islands in your "Long region"? There is not a single archipelago in your "long region", so definitely your argument is failed.
I asked you to find the archipelago in Central Vietnam which you think was mistaken with Paracels, not to find the sea.
You lost in number 1.
2) lol are you using ruler to measure the distance in old maps and then ... calculate? You failed
I asked you to find an archipelago that is equal-spaced between Hainan and Vietnamese coast in Central Vietnam, you haven't done it, so you still lost un number 2
3) Yes, the "scale" between Paracels, and Central Vietnamese coast is wrong because of bad technique. That what I've said a long time ago. Then?.
The fact is still there: No near-coast islands in Central Vietnam is equal-spaced between Vietnamese coast and Hainan.
Problem solved, you lost in number 3
4) You are confused with your number. It's 1838 map.
- We were never named An Nam officially, it's kind of "nick name" we used in diplomacy with China, because it was given by Tang dynasty. The Westerners also used that name. Our official names in Medieval age and Modern Age are Đại Cồ Việt -> Đại Việt -> Đại Ngu -> Đại Việt -> Việt Nam -> Đại Nam -> Việt Nam.
- It's drawn with the help Westerners so it had Latin characters.
- Jean-Louis Taberd drew it under Minh Mang of Nguyen Dynasty, then the map is re-printed in Dictionarium Latino-Annamiticum completum et novo ordine dispositum, 1838.
Any question?
That map definitely shows that Vietnamese Paracels is not Near-Coast islands. So you lost in number 4.
5) Your Chinese monks didn't go in sailing season (windy season), didn't go continuously without rest like us, didn't have the same kind of sailing boat. Why you can say what kind of boat did our Paracel Team use? Example are not matched, so your example is failed. With the favourable wind (so the boat can go around 4-6 nautical miles per hour) and go continuously, it's possible. Unless you have the data that say what kind of boat we used with its parameter, you can't deny the Paracel Team with "speed" argument.
6) Try to group this with your "speed" argument?

Yeah you have that "near-coast islands" here separated from Paracel. So your argument about "near-coast islands in the Central Vietnam" is invalid. You lost in number 6)
7) I see, you afraid of losing so you don't want to go to international court.
So you lost number 7).



Why the "real Paracel" is just next to the "Vietnamese near-coast islands", not even a small distance? :And then "real Paracel" is much more smaller in both size and quantity and less noticeable than "near-coast islands"

So it's completely not the real Paracel. Exactly it's Macclesfield Bank. We don't claim it.

So just find the archipelago in Central Vietnam which you think was mistaken with Paracels, capture the screen in Google Map and post the image here. Otherwise, we stop, because you have failed.

 

[Diamond_Gold]

I think it is more clear with provinces belonging to than ''Directly''. I did not hear province directly before.

The Manchu state was founded in the early 17th century. If the Qing empirors did not integrate it into China, it was still a state. That's why I said that Qing empirors did not consider their Manchu state as the terriory of China.

Manchukuo was formed by Qing Dynasty officials (Manchu people) with the help of Japanese. Puyi was also Manchu. So you cannot conclude that Manchukuo can never on behalf of the Manchu people.

So are you a manchurian then?

Yeah, only man like you with such "high moral(self proclaimed) will make use of such cheap and irresponsible statement to glorify the imperialist jap in WW2 in order to achieve your own personal aim to undermine the chinese. PHEW!

Unit 731 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

P.S.:In the above quoted link, the chinese there referred to chinese people of han and as well as of manchus ethicity etc.

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

I think it's the time to stop discussing about Mongolia, Manchu or something like that. It's

 

[asean_2015]

So are you a manchurian then?

Yeah, only man like you with such "high moral(self proclaimed) will make use of such cheap and irresponsible statement to glorify the imperialist jap in WW2 in order to achieve your own personal aim to undermine the chinese. PHEW!

Unit 731 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

P.S.:In the above quoted link, the chinese there referred to chinese people of han and as well as of manchus ethicity etc.

I am very sorry if I hurt you or others. However, I am not the one to bring up the problem of Manchu. I will not continue to dicuss about it.

 

[Snomannen]

I think it is more clear with provinces belonging to than ''Directly''. I did not hear province directly before.

The Manchu state was founded in the early 17th century. If the Qing empirors did not integrate it into China, it was still a state. That's why I said that Qing empirors did not consider their Manchu state as the terriory of China.

Manchukuo was formed by Qing Dynasty officials (Manchu people) with the help of Japanese. Puyi was also Manchu. So you cannot conclude that Manchukuo can never on behalf of the Manchu people.

1. In the Cabinet of the Manchukuo, only 2 of 11 members were Manchu people.
2. Pu Yi's actions can never on behalf of Manchu people and also Manchu aristocracy:
Here are the anti-Japanese heroes from Manchu patriciate:
Shen Shuang, Zhào chéngjīn, Zhao Dong, Huáng zhōng, etc.
3. If Puyi can on behalf of the Manchu people, then Pétain can also on behalf of the French people.
4. There was not such a thing called Manchu state in the 17th century, but a state divided from the Ming Empire named "Later Jin" (renamed to Qing) in the 16th century.
5. You Sir need to apologize to those Manchu people (especially to Northeast Anti-Japanese Volunteers) who sacrificed themselves from defending China during the Sino-Japan War.

 

[laxuanlinh]

Why the Chinese guys always avoid the evidences from the map that we show? If you guys wanna object it, just give us a Chinese map that point out Chinese had known about these Island before 19th century? It's simple as well as we go to find a Vietnamese map right? Unless you guys can't find out one cuz it doesn't exist=)) lol. Comon, just focus on the trustest proofs- the maps, we've spent 33 pages in explaining those maps and Chinese don't want to undetstand or they just object very weakly. Every point that they have said are all denied. Oh, btw, there is a guy saying that Vietnamese made up this map right? I've found this map on a CHINESE WEBSITE. If you wanna object, you will slap your self.
auction.artxun.com/pic-134949226-0.html

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Maps – tool to demonstrate knowledge on territory
06/08/2012 | 18:44:00

For every nation, maps are a special language and tool to demonstrate knowledge on territory. All maps drawn by Chinese people before 1909 indicate that the southernmost point of China is Hainan Island. Meanwhile, Vietnamese made maps and European navigation charts since the 17th century, have depicted that the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Archipelagos belong to Vietnam.

According to historian Duong Trung Quoc, China’s oldest map in contemporary times, “Hoang trieu truc tinh dia du toan do” (an administrative map of provincial boundaries) published in 1904, reflects China’s perception of its territory during the Qing Dynasty. This shows that by the early 20th century, the Chinese feudal administration had not yet intended to claim sovereignty over the two archipelagos of Hoang Sa and Truong Sa of Vietnam.

“This is important significant evidence and supplements the historical evidence proving Vietnam’s sovereignty over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa Archipelagos,” Quoc said.

In fact, China only started claiming Hoang Sa from 1909 and Truong Sa from 1935 while Vietnam held much earlier evidence of its sovereignty in the East Sea , at least from the 17 th century.

According to East Sea researcher Nguyen Hong Thao, the evidence Vietnam has collected is overwhelming. They are recorded in royal historical works compiled by the Office of National History and printed during the Nguyen Dynasty.

They include “Dai Nam thuc luc chinh bien” (The Main Part of The Chronicles of Dai Nam, 1848), “Kham Dinh Dai Nam hoi dien su le” (The Dai Nam Administrative Records, 1843-1851), “Dai Nam nhat thong chi” (The Geography of the Unified Dai Nam, 1865-1882), “Lich trieu hien chuong loai chi” (Classified Rules of Dynasties, 1821), “Hoang Viet dia du chi” (Geographical Treatise of Imperial Vietnam, 1833), and “Viet su cuong giam khao luoc” (Brief History of Vietnam, 1876).

The oldest publication describing the existence of the islands is the “Toan tap Thien Nam tu chi lo do thu” (The Collection of Route Map from the Capital to the Four Directions, 1630-1653), compiled by a man named Do Ba alias Cong Dao.

The document consists of maps of An Nam from the 15th century. Of them, one clearly shows the Paracel and Spratly Archipelagos in the East Sea with the names of Bai Cat Vang and Truong Sa in Quang Nghia prefecture. Under King Minh Mang’s reign, Hoang Sa and Van Ly Truong Sa were clearly depicted in the “1834 Dai Nam nhat thong toan do” (The Complete Map of the Unified Dai Nam).

According to historian Duong Trung Quoc, Vietnam’s geographical location is between the Chinese and Indian civilisations and lies on one of the world’s main shipping lanes. So it is necessary to pay attention not only to maps from Vietnam or China, but also the navigation charts of other navigation powers, regarding related issues.

Sharing the view, Dr. Tran Duc Anh Son, Vice Director of Da Nang City’s Socio-Economic Development Research Institute, said that not only old Vietnamese and Chinese maps but many old Western maps also clearly show that Hoang Sa and Truong belong to Vietnam.

Son has just completed a research project on Vietnam’s sovereignty over the island district of Hoang Sa.

One of the biggest successes for his research group is a collection of 56 western maps drawn over a period of more than three centuries. Some maps are very old, such as the one drawn by Livro da Marinharia FM Pinnto in 1560, another by Gerard Mercator (1512-1594) dating to the latter half of the 16 th century, while some are more recently such as the map by Stielers Handatla drawn in 1891.

In particular, the “An Nam Dai Quoc Hoa Do” or Map of the Great Country of An Nam, published in 1838 in three languages of Chinese, Vietnamese and Latin, by Bishop Taberd, bears the words “Paracel seu Cat Vang” (Paracel or Cat Vang), affirming Vietnamese sovereignty.

This proves that as early as the 16th century, many Westerners already knew the area around Hoang Sa and regarded it as part of Vietnamese territory.

“Western cartographers, navigators and explorers have noted Vietnam’s sovereignty over these archipelagos in their geographic map and navigation charts. Therefore, the maps are valuable documents that help confirm Vietnam’s indisputable sovereignty over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa Archipelagos that are disputed by other regional nations,” Son said.-VNA

Maps

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Old atlas affirms Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa, Truong Sa
28/08/2012 | 18:34:00

The Vietnam Buddhist Sangha Central Committee on August 28 announced an atlas under the Guangxu reign of the Chinese Qing dynasty, proving Hainan Island to be the last Chinese strip of land in the region.

The book was kept in the Phuoc Trang bookcase at the house of Tran Dinh Ba (1867-1933), who copied it when he worked as the Minister of Justice under the Khai Dinh reign (1916-1925).

The book is now preserved by Ba’s descendant, researcher Tran Dinh Son, who is currently living in Ho Chi Minh City .

The “Dia du do khao” (geographical and administrative atlas) has a hardback covered with red silk. It includes 65 pages with Chinese characters on both sides and is divided into 20 sections with 20 detailed maps attached.

Prof. Cao Huy Thuan, lecturer of Law and Politics at the French Picardi University , described researcher Son’s contributions as providing new evidence to affirm Vietnam ’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagoes and that China itself recognised Hainan Island as the last strip of its border.

According to Son, there are still big rocks in Yu Lin, the southern most point of Hainan Island, carved with the words “ends of the world” and “boundless sea and sky” proving that the Chinese government, since the Qing dynasty, did not recognised Hoang Sa (called Xisha by China) as its territory.-VNA

Old atlas affirms Vietnam

 

[WuMaoCleverbot]

G7 leaders agree on sending strong message on South China Sea
May 27, 2016 - 10:52am

MANILA, Philippines — The leaders of the Group of Seven (G7) advanced economies have agreed that there is a need to send a strong message on China's maritime claims in the South China Sea.

China is locked in territorial disputes with Japan and several Southeast Asian nations including the Philippines and Vietnam.

"Prime Minister (Shinzo) Abe led discussion on the current situation in the South China Sea and East China Sea. Other G7 leaders said it is necessary for G7 to issue a clear signal," Japanese Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary Hiroshige Seko said.

According to reports, this agreement prompted a sharp rejoinder from China, which is not a member of the G7.

China warned the G7 that it should not meddle with the South China Sea issue and suggested that the group should focus on itself and "not poke its nose into other countries or matters beyond its remit." "I have made it very clear that the South China Sea issue has nothing to do with the G7 and its members. We believe that the G7 should focus its time and energy on coping with issues within it, and not poke its nose into other countries or matters beyond its remit.

This is also good for the G7 itself," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said in a press briefing on Thursday.

Hua said that come countries are only taking advantage of the G7 and stressed that China is against certain countries hyping up the issue on the sea dispute.

"The South China Sea issue is none of the business of the G7 and its members," Hua said. The G7 — composed of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States — recently wrapped up their two-day annual leaders' summit in Japan. -

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2...-agree-sending-strong-message-south-china-sea

 

[OrionHunter]

Chinese Map of 1904 Proves China's Territory Is Up To Hainan Island Only.