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1904 China map admits Paracel, Spratly not Chinese territory

British at that time were in China, so they asked China first, it is not surprised. But important as Chinese responded that the Paracels is not a Chinese territory.
And it is right, how can they take responsibility, while at the time the archipelago belong to Vietnam?

BTW: At that time Hong Kong was a British colony?

Okay. British ambassador was in China. But don't you know telegram was widely used in 1898? Distance was not a problem anymore. If British wanted to talk with France gov, they would do it in the same day. But they did not. Instead, British chose a worse counterpart-----Qing, who was not familiar with International Laws. For all western countries, dealing with Qing gov on diplomatic issues was always a headache.
 
you know what's wrong with your logic ?
it doesnt matter you have got 1 map or 100 maps
you just need 1 "convictive" map

you want to prove china didnt own the islands you just follow 2 steps

step 1: find out 1 map which has been affirmed to be official documents of "the whole outline of country territory"
(including sea territory)

step 2: in this official countrywide map, you find out the map didnt mark those islands claimed by china

if you succeed in doing this, it will qualify you for challenging the claim of China in a small dose,
because map mistake often happens even in some developed country nowadays


but you do nothing now but offering a "misguided proof"
and you chatter so noisily about that "chinese dare not talk about History"
with the complete unawareness of your own knowledge defection and self ignorance.
 
Götterdämmerung;3221826 said:
The problems is, all nations recognises the ROC and later the PRC to be the legitimate successor of the Qing dynasty and that the Qing dynasty represented the Chinese nation.
Not all countries.

But if one was to accept the People's Republic is the successor state of Qing, then the People's Republic has no legal claims on Paracels and Spratlys as those were not a part of Qing territory.

Japan denounced it after being defeated in WW2.
Then Chen Sui Ben's theory holds that Taiwan is legally a US territory acquired from Japan just like Okinawa was.
 
Oh really? You start jumping. How can your ancestors display both of the Paracel archipelago and Spratly archipelago on the map of China while the two archipelagos belong to Vietnam?
Remember that this is just one of many an ancient map of China that we currently own, and all of them were not showing the two archipelagos.... :cheesy:

you know what's wrong with your logic ?
it doesnt matter you have got 1 map or 100 maps
you just need 1 "convictive" map

you want to prove china didnt own the islands you just follow 2 steps

step 1: find out 1 map which has been affirmed to be official documents of "the whole outline of country territory"
(including sea territory)

step 2: in this official countrywide map, you find out the map didnt mark those islands claimed by china

if you succeed in doing this, it will qualify you for challenging the claim of China in a small dose,
because map mistake often happens even in some developed country nowadays


but you do nothing now but offering a "misguided proof"
and you chatter so noisily about that "chinese dare not talk about History"
with the complete unawareness of your own knowledge defection and self ignorance.
 
Okay. British ambassador was in China. But don't you know telegram was widely used in 1898? Distance was not a problem anymore. If British wanted to talk with France gov, they would do it in the same day. But they did not. Instead, British chose a worse counterpart-----Qing, who was not familiar with International Laws. For all western countries, dealing with Qing gov on diplomatic issues was always a headache.

British had asked the Chinese first , that doesn't mean that they did not ask other countries.

you know what's wrong with your logic ?
it doesnt matter you have got 1 map or 100 maps
you just need 1 "convictive" map

you want to prove china didnt own the islands you just follow 2 steps

step 1: find out 1 map which has been affirmed to be official documents of "the whole outline of country territory"
(including sea territory)

step 2: in this official countrywide map, you find out the map didnt mark those islands claimed by china

if you succeed in doing this, it will qualify you for challenging the claim of China in a small dose,
because map mistake often happens even in some developed country nowadays


but you do nothing now but offering a "misguided proof"
and you chatter so noisily about that "chinese dare not talk about History"
with the complete unawareness of your own knowledge defection and self ignorance.

You dont need to explain roundly. In the fact all real China's maps before 1904 did not mention both Paracels and Spratlys.
Besides, Vietnam has many evidences to prove that at the time Paracels and Spratlys belong to Vietnam.

It is difficult to the sides recognize the evidence of others, so why dont all sides around SCS together come to an international court to resolve disputes?


By the way:

Old western maps: Hoang Sa, Truong Sa belong to Vietnam
VietNamNet Bridge – Many old western maps show that Vietnam has established its sovereignty over the Truong Sa (Spratly) and Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelagos for over five centuries, said a local researcher.

20120727132551_go6-1.jpg

A map made by Jodocus Hondius in 1613.

Tran Duc Anh Son, Deputy Director of the Danang Institute for Socio-economic Development, said he has collected 56 western maps including one made by Livro da Marinjaria FM Pinnto in 1560, one by Gerard Mercetor in the late 16th century, and another made by Stielers Handatla in 1891.
All the maps, drawn in pictographs or scripts, show that both the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa are part of Vietnam, named Cauchi, Cochi, Cochinchina, or Cochinnhine by Western countries.
In the map made by Jodocus Hondius in 1613, the Frael (Hoang Sa) archipelago includes all the islands from the Tonkin Gulf to Vietnam’s southern sea, except for Condor (Con Dao) and Pulo Cici (Phu Quoc), which were drawn separately.

20120727132551_go6-2.jpg

A map made by Bishop Jean-Louis Taberd.

In another map drawn by W. Blaeu in 1645, the Frael (Hoang Sa) archipelago is connected with Pulo Secca de Mare (Phu Quy island), Pulo Cambir (Cu Lao Xanh), and Cullo Canton (Ly Son island), creating a group of islands belonging to Dang Trong (Vietnam’s Southern region).
Especially, the caption Paracel seu Cat Vang (Paracel or Cat Vang) in a map made by Bishop Jean-Louis Taberd, which was written in Han (Chinese), Quoc Ngu (standard Vietnamese) and Latin languages, means that Hoang Sa islands belong to Vietnam.
This means, Son said, many Western cartographers, experts and discoverers have recognized the Hoang Sa archipelago as part of Vietnam, which they called Cochinchine, Cochinchina, or Annam.
These maps are precious documents which confirm Vietnam has long exercised its sovereignty over the Hoang Sa and Truong Sa archipelagos.
VietNamNet/VOV

VietNamNet
 
British had asked the Chinese first , that doesn't mean that they did not ask other countries.



It is difficult to the sides recognize the evidence of others, so why dont all sides around SCS together come to an international court to resolve disputes?

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come to an international court?
haha ,its really dangerous for you to offer a fake/misguided proof like "直省 map" in court:P

btw,what does these two tiny lovely picture show to us ?:meeting:
 
come to an international court?
haha ,its really dangerous for you to offer a fake/misguided proof like "直省 map" in court:P

btw,what does these two tiny lovely picture show to us ?:meeting:

Oh, when the countries agreed jointly to an international court to resolve disputes, of course the sides will have to find an independent scientific organization who is able to evaluate the evidences, including maps.

With modern technology in the world today, we can completely determine the evidences are real or fake that is not too difficult.

BTW: Rest assured, we do not have the habit of making fake things...
 
Why not ask your government to show up in international court instead of bullying
Oh afraid of the truth? All you can do is claim everything and call it yours :lol:

Poor uncivilized race stuck in ancient times :lol:

Only hopeless and useless country go to international court:lol:
 
They are lying, lying ...and bullying, and fear from truth. China denied to submit the dispute to Internal Arbitration with Philippine. There is nature of liars, inferiority.

:lol: They're mindless creature, a puppet of their government. Nobody loves them but they're own race. In fact if there's war in the near future, they're so called allies will never fight at their sides.

Nobody loves china, this is a fact but they were blinded and living in their fantasy world :rofl:
 
it's a land map,everyone see that,and where in the map shows they belong to Vietnam?

LOL. Land map ? where in the world they don't print island into their territory map ?
The point of the map is showing to the world, especially chinese that you inappropriately claim your right on the things don't belong to you. That means you and your government are BIG FAT UGLY LIARS

most maps,yes,but not all the maps.some maps only show land boundary.but nowhere on our maps showing the Spratly is not ours.

LOL. Then china does whatever you want ? take printing a territory map is a joke ?

but nowhere on our maps showing the Spratly is not ours
The most stupid comment I've ever seen.
 
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