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1904 China map admits Paracel, Spratly not Chinese territory

1.You are a fool ? When I say that the West 400 years did not find true of the Paracel Islands? I have already said very clearly: In 1613, the English captain discovered that the Xisha Islands, At that time he will Xisha Islands named "LES Lunet TES", The geographic coordinates: latitude 16 ° to 17 °, longitude 111 ° 30 'to 112 ° 42'. "Pracel" long region (central Vietnam coast, islands and sandbars), East to West Wide 106.5km, North-South length 500km, geographic coordinates: 12 ° ~ 16 ° 30 North, longitude 110 ° ~ 111 °. You need to use Google Maps, View them geographic coordinates where in the South China Sea!

2. Western countries define “Pracel”, Representative regions are different at different times. Before 1851,Western countries will be the bar area (central Vietnam coast, islands and sandbars) called "Pracel, After 1851, Western remove long strips of area, "Pracel" transferred to the Xisha Islands now. (See the previous Western map evolution)

3. France 1831 description "Pracel" for long region. This area: wide 106.5km long 500km. Use Google Maps to view the northern part of the region, To Vietnam and hainan island almost equal distance.

4. 1838 Map of Vietnam, Approximate outline of Vietnam can draw out, why only these two Islands and scale such a big difference? Vietnam to the actual distance of hainan island for more than 200 kilometers, the xisha islands to the actual distance for 300 km, to the distance to nansha more than 700 km, and the xisha islands to the spratly islands is more than 700 kilometres. If according to this map scale, Vietnam to the xisha islands distance to hainan island ,should be almost. Vietnam to the Nansha Islands in the distance, equal to the distance of two Vietnam to Hainan Island. The xisha islands to the distance of the nansha islands, More than Hanoi to Hoi An distance. If according to this ratio, the Vietnamese side as long as necessary, Can put the coast of Vietnam some islands , Apply to become Java and Timor. It is simply not yet reached the time.

5. In 1776, when Vietnam in coastal sailing ships, general is "紅船" or "田姑船", the ship is not only small, and the speed is slow. "紅船":其船體狹長,狀如龍舟,昂首尾丹漆之,船上不能容炊具,僅贮淡水一缸,船上掉軍赤體暴烈日中,渴則勺飲馁腹, Physical exertion, the speed is slow can be imagined. For example, in July 1795, Guangzhou monk “da shan chang weng”, "ready to return from Vietnam, Vietnamese officials are preparing a 40 ship”田姑船" for his farewell. The monks Ride "红船", at noon on the 19th, set sail from Hoi An, until the next morning to arrive at the "占婆島", Ride "洋船". From "廣南江口" to "占婆島", a distance of about 12 km, more than Half a day, day and a half of the voyage can only go up to more than 30 km. Vietnam so-called the Xisha fleet, from now (Quảng Ngãi Bình Sơn) Departure: geographic coordinates: latitude 15 ° 22'51 ", longitude 109 ° 07'03, For three days and three nights to reach the “Xisha Islands ", in fact, only sailed about 100 km.. From here through the ”Pracel“ the so-called Vietnam: "黃沙" and "萬里長沙", Need 197.5km, reach the Xisha Islands would need at least 250.75km.

6. It seems you do not have the exact geographical concept. Vietnam's most eastern longitude 109 ° 50 ', "Pracel", the so-called Vietnam: "sand" and "黃沙" and "萬里長沙", its geographical coordinates of longitude 110 ° to 111 °.Paracel Islands east longitude 111 ° 30 ' to 112 ° 42'. In this region, a longitude of approximately equal to 106.5km, In other words: Vietnam closest to the "黃沙" and "萬里長沙"17.75km, But do not forget, this long bar district wide 106.5km, Even if the Paracel Islands, also in this region in eastern 53km.

7. Many Chinese map is no Marked south China sea islands, because the Chinese territory too big, If the land and the sea to draw together, Can not show in detail the geographic profile of the South China Sea islands, We specialize in drawing the map of the South China Sea, Oath of China's sovereignty over the South China Sea Islands!

The Map of South and East Ocean Sea Routes was drawn in between 1712-1721 by Qing (Ching) Dynasty Fujian (Fuchien) Province Navy Commander Shi Shibiao, the son of a famous early Qing Dynasty Imperial Officer. This map shows clearly the sea routes, time and decriptions from Chinese coastal ports to Japan, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia,Brunei, Cambodia and the Phinllipines. In this map, the locations and names of the Southern Sea Islands(Nanhai Zhudao) are very accurate. The map shows clearly Chinese sovereignty over the South China Sea Islands including Nansha Islands, Xisha Islands, Zhongsha Islands and Dongsha Islands.Also note the "long bar area" shown in this map which locates close to the Vietnamese coast, which clearly tells that the so called "Truong Sa" and "Hoang Sa" as shown in the 1838 "Complete Map of Unified Great Nam" are not the Nansha (Spratlys) and Xisha (Paracels) Islands of China at all, but refers to the Pullo Canton near the central Vietnamese coast, which was also once been identified as "dangerous group" and named Paracels before Paracels was used to refer to China's Xisha Islands later in the history.

Republic of China 1935:

Republic of China 1937:

Republic of China 1946:

I personally do not support an international court.As the victors in World War I, China is fully justified reasons, Recovery of the German concession in Shandong, but because at that time China national small and weak, from western countries the manipulation of the Paris peace conference was prescribed by Japan in the shandong inherited Germany all right. Now though China began to rise, but western society has been looking for opportunities to contain China, China can't take the second risks, will Its own sovereignty, Handed over to the Western countries to control international court.

1) You haven't done what I asked: Go to google maps and find the archipelago which you think was mistaken with Paracels, capture your screen and post here.
bcc7d91d84dc52814016406fd25056e1_47652811.hoangsatruongsagiaoduc.jpg

And if you post here the same islands with my 1834 map, your argument is still invalid, and you will lost number 1).

2) You said
Western countries define “Pracel”, Representative regions are different at different times. Before 1851,Western countries will be the bar area (central Vietnam coast, islands and sandbars) called "Pracel"

But in 1831:
The French book "Traité élémentaire de géographie: contenant un abrégé méthodique du Précis de la géographie universelle en huit volumes" (volume 2) was published in Paris, 1831. Page 221 said that: "equal-spaced between Hainan and Cochinchina, Paracels archipelago was depended on Annam Empire". "A une egale distance de la cote de Cochinchine et de l'ile d'Hai-nan, l'archipel de Paracels est une dependance de l'empire d'Annam". No near-coast islands in Central Vietnam is equal-spaced between Vietnamese coast and Hainan, according to 1).

Also, in our 1834 map, the near-coast islands in the Central Vietnam are also drawn and totally separated from Paracel:
bcc7d91d84dc52814016406fd25056e1_47652811.hoangsatruongsagiaoduc.jpg


So, your argument that "Vietnamese Paracel is the bar area (central Vietnam coast, islands and sandbars)" is invalid, you lost in number 2).

3) So you agree that the French mentioned the real Paracel, not the near-coast islands, because of the undeniable fact: No near-coast islands in Central Vietnam is equal-spaced between Vietnamese coast and Hainan.
Problem solved, you lost in number 3).

4)
AnNamDaiQuocHoaDo.jpg

So you still mean that Paracel (Cát Vàng) in this map is just near-coast islands?
Ok so problem solved, you failed, you lost in number 4).

5) Yes, around 200 km, that why we need 3 days 3 nights continuously.
Just do math. 3 days 3 night continuously -> 72 hours.
Speed of a small sailing ship is around 4~6 km/h. With 72 hours continuously and we start the journey in sailing season (we have the wind support us), we can even go for 288~432 km! Nothing is impossible there.

6) Just go to google map and capture the screen that archipelago :whistle:
bcc7d91d84dc52814016406fd25056e1_47652811.hoangsatruongsagiaoduc.jpg

Wait a minute, you have that "near-coast islands" here separated from Paracel. So your argument about "near-coast islands in the Central Vietnam" is invalid. You lost in number 6).

7) I see, you afraid of losing so you don't want to go to international court.
So you lost number 7).

Your 193x maps mean that 193x is the first time you claim Paracel :lol:

In conclusion, you have number 1, 5 left to argue. Come on, I know you can't do it :rofl:
 
7. Many Chinese map is no Marked south China sea islands, because the Chinese territory too big, If the land and the sea to draw together, Can not show in detail the geographic profile of the South China Sea islands, We specialize in drawing the map of the South China Sea, Oath of China's sovereignty over the South China Sea Islands!
Although Chinese territory is too big, in 中國地圖冊 1939, China can still fit to one page. In page 1, neither Paracel nor Spratly is included.
Chinamap16.jpg

even in smaller maps, for example page 16
chinamap17.jpg
 
Create another thread, It's off-topic Mongolia here, please!
back to the discussion.


P/s: Anh em chú ý bọn khựa đang tổ lái, anh em hãy quay về chủ đề chính, :) tớ kém EN lên chỉ ngồi ngắm thôi, anh em hãy tập trung bỏ qua thằng lái đi vào việc chính!
 
Republic of China 1946:
ROC_SCS_map_y35m12_85dpi.jpg
The dispute with Vietnam and Phillipine started from this map. I do not know where it came from since the previous maps did not show the cow's tongue. I suppose the one created the map was an expansionist. His imagination really caused a lot of troubles for Chinese.

Now I might get the point and edit some more texts about the Chinese expansionist. The second world war finished in 1945. As the winners in the second world war, US UK France USSR had right to ''divide'' the world again. However, China did not have this right since the contribution of China to the victory of the second world war was very small. Going back to the Chinese expansionist. This guy had responsibility to creat the map of republic of China. He though that China was also a winner and it was unfair for republic of China if China did not get anything. He decided himself to draw above map according to his imagination. He though that the sea in the south of China should be considered as a bonus for republic of China. His idea was approved by other Chinese expansionists. In 1946, this map was published. Do you think this story is logic? Remember, it is only a story imagined by me to explain for the above map.
 
I enter here by chance from the forum hoangsa.org of VN and I'm a Vietnamese.
Well, why you suggest China go to the international maritime court? You should be aware that criminals are always afraid of going to the court. Just simply because they will lose when facing the truth. That is why China has always refused to go to an international court regardless Vietnam and the Philippine has suggested not only one time.

Just a quick reminder, our Vietnam ancient governments took control Hoang Sa (Paracel Islands) and Truong Sa (Spratly Islands) since 16th century. Every year those governments dispatched solders and administrative teams to go there to maintain sovereignty of Vietnam. They sailed to Hoang Sa and Truong Sa to collect bird nests, fishing, marine measurement, etc and live there for a limited time then come back the mainland. Every year, there were several teams to be dispatched to Hoang Sa and Truong Sa.
However, in 1956, when Vietnam was engaging in the war with French and in 1974 when Vietnam was involving in the war the US, China took advantages of these two events by invading the Eastern part of Hoang Sa (Paracel Islands) in 1956 and the Western part in 1974. Similarly, in 1988, when Vietnam was focusing on the fight with Khmer Rouge in Cambodia (which was backed by Chinese and had man-slaughtered more than 3 million Cambodian people (3,000,000) in accordance with the calls of Cambodian people, they invaded a part of Truong Sa (Spratly Islands), China attached those islands by its navy.
In brief, Vietnam lost Hoang Sa totally in 1956 and 1974 and a part of Truong Sa in 1988 to China.
More dangerously, such "criminal" is not conscious of shame. They have been creating many so-called "evidences" to support for illegal invasion of them. Thus I suggest you, international friends, should be aware of this and be able to clarify which is true and which is fake.
 
The dispute with Vietnam and Phillipine started from this map. I do not know where it came from since the previous maps did not show the cow's tongue. I suppose the one created the map was an expansionist. His imagination really caused a lot of troubles for Chinese.

Now I might get the point and edit some more texts about the Chinese expansionist. The second world war finished in 1945. As the winners in the second world war, US UK France USSR had right to ''divide'' the world again. However, China did not have this right since the contribution of China to the victory of the second world war was very small. Going back to the Chinese expansionist. This guy had responsibility to creat the map of republic of China. He though that China was also a winner and it was unfair for republic of China if China did not get anything. He decided himself to draw above map according to his imagination. He though that the sea in the south of China should be considered as a bonus for republic of China. His idea was approved by other Chinese expansionists. In 1946, this map was published. Do you think this story is logic? Remember, it is only a story imagined by me to explain for the above map.
:rofl: Western powers weren't dividing "the world" after WW2. They were dividing up inferior monkey countries like yours while giving China the UN Security Council permanent membership.

That's why nobody objected when China grabbed Taiping Island in 1945, when China grabbed Paracels in 1974 and when China grabbed Spratlys in 1988. Now in 2012 we just grabbed Scarborough Shoal!

You think anybody is going to save monkey nations from China's naval power in 2012 when our nation is at our peak of power? Keep deluding yourselves :lol:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/199349-happy-pla-day-aug-1-a.html
 
:rofl: Western powers weren't dividing "the world" after WW2. They were dividing up inferior monkey countries like yours while giving China the UN Security Council permanent membership.

That's why nobody objected when China grabbed Taiping Island in 1945, when China grabbed Paracels in 1974 and when China grabbed Spratlys in 1988. Now in 2012 we just grabbed Scarborough Shoal!

You think anybody is going to save monkey nations from China's naval power in 2012 when our nation is at our peak of power? Keep deluding yourselves :lol:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/199349-happy-pla-day-aug-1-a.html

So finally you have admitted that your country had just gone an grabbed islands from others' nations :chilli:
 
Maps??

If those HoangSa and TruongSa are yours, then why don't you defend them? Instead, recently "about 30 Chinese fishing vessels arrived at Zhubi shoal in the Spratlys in the South China Sea as Beijing reasserted its sovereignty in the disputed region" where are your (Vietnameses and VN's governments) responses to that?

:rofl: Western powers weren't dividing "the world" after WW2. They were dividing up inferior monkey countries like yours while giving China the UN Security Council permanent membership.

That's why nobody objected when China grabbed Taiping Island in 1945, when China grabbed Paracels in 1974 and when China grabbed Spratlys in 1988. Now in 2012 we just grabbed Scarborough Shoal!

You think anybody is going to save monkey nations from China's naval power in 2012 when our nation is at our peak of power? Keep deluding yourselves :lol:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/199349-happy-pla-day-aug-1-a.html

SinoChallenger, you're fools! :D

So, China has shown to the world that she is a grabber heh? Great, then the world has a reason to slap her hands and handcuffs her hands.
 
Maps??

If those HoangSa and TruongSa are yours, then why don't you defend them? Instead, recently "about 30 Chinese fishing vessels arrived at Zhubi shoal in the Spratlys in the South China Sea as Beijing reasserted its sovereignty in the disputed region" where are your (Vietnameses and VN's governments) responses to that?

What make you think that Viet Nam is not defend it? Yes, the light Naval battle in 1974.

More than likely, Viet Nam only claims the Islands not entire SCS? This is mean, China fishermen can do whatever its need to do, Viet Nam will not allow them to getting close to VN EZZ.

Like other nations, Viet Nam agreed that SCS is Free Navigation Route and once again SCS is not belong to Viet Nam. Paracel, Spratly are belong to Viet Nam from time to time.

For now, China is power and stronger more than Viet Nam. It is a foolish to start a war with China, but it is not good for China if its starting first. From time to time, Viet Nam only standing on 1 possition that is "DEFEND". China can have it, but keep them up for good that a very hard thing for its does.
 
:rofl: Western powers weren't dividing "the world" after WW2. They were dividing up inferior monkey countries like yours while giving China the UN Security Council permanent membership.

That's why nobody objected when China grabbed Taiping Island in 1945, when China grabbed Paracels in 1974 and when China grabbed Spratlys in 1988. Now in 2012 we just grabbed Scarborough Shoal!

You think anybody is going to save monkey nations from China's naval power in 2012 when our nation is at our peak of power? Keep deluding yourselves :lol:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/199349-happy-pla-day-aug-1-a.html
According to your comment, China is one of inferior monkey countries, not mine. Think about the Chinese civil war with several million dead after 1945 and Taiwan was separated from mainland as an independent country. The reason was that Mao Zedong obeyed USSR while Chiang Kai-shek was controlled by US at that time. Is it not a dividing? Inform me if I wrote somthing wrong.

I suppose the reason the republic of China (not people republic of China) got a seat in the UN security council have been mentioned in another topic. Nothing is permanent. That's why PRC ''grabbed'' the seat from Taiwan.

Anyway, you more or less agreed with my story. The grab started with the map published in 1946 by republic of China. The map helped republic of China and then people republic of China to grab other islands.

China is very powerful now because of the brave people like you. I totally agree with you. Only the very brave Chinese people admitted that China grabbed islands from other countries.
 
Create another thread, It's off-topic Mongolia here, please!
back to the discussion.


P/s: Anh em chú ý bọn khựa đang tổ lái, anh em hãy quay về chủ đề chính, :) tớ kém EN lên chỉ ngồi ngắm thôi, anh em hãy tập trung bỏ qua thằng lái đi vào việc chính!

Nguyên là mông bạn à, có ý đấy,

:rofl: Western powers weren't dividing "the world" after WW2. They were dividing up inferior monkey countries like yours while giving China the UN Security Council permanent membership.

That's why nobody objected when China grabbed Taiping Island in 1945, when China grabbed Paracels in 1974 and when China grabbed Spratlys in 1988. Now in 2012 we just grabbed Scarborough Shoal!

You think anybody is going to save monkey nations from China's naval power in 2012 when our nation is at our peak of power? Keep deluding yourselves :lol:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/199349-happy-pla-day-aug-1-a.html

Taiwan withdrawn 1946 after Chongqing agreement signed With France. And occupied Itu Aba 1956 with force when South Vietnam was busy with govt changed.
Chinese is illegally occupied Islands of Vietnam.
 
Maps??

If those HoangSa and TruongSa are yours, then why don't you defend them? Instead, recently "about 30 Chinese fishing vessels arrived at Zhubi shoal in the Spratlys in the South China Sea as Beijing reasserted its sovereignty in the disputed region" where are your (Vietnameses and VN's governments) responses to that?

We have send feback to China goverment, all diplomatic channels and publishing information against to international.

We are a small country, so we have no other method. And:
- Vietnam is peace-loving country and do not want war.
- We are a responsible country and keeping commitments leaders of both parties for not complicating the situation.
- We and all the world that understand the characteristic of Chinese is aggression and lie evidence, and using that to conduct the conflic.

Please see China, countries with large population and area in the world, the world's No. 2 about economy, permanent members of Security Council UN. But we are very disappointed in their behavior. We can not believe the role and their contribution to the development and prosperity of the world.
 
Maps??

If those HoangSa and TruongSa are yours, then why don't you defend them? Instead, recently "about 30 Chinese fishing vessels arrived at Zhubi shoal in the Spratlys in the South China Sea as Beijing reasserted its sovereignty in the disputed region" where are your (Vietnameses and VN's governments) responses to that?

We have opposed their action. What do you want else? Go and bomb their vessels? We are not stupid enough to declare a war with China at the moment. :coffee:

I know you hate communism. But sometime Vietnamese people have to unite together and fight for our Motherland.
 
If those islands belong to China few centuries ago.
Why you are not the first who keeping Paracels and Spratlys ?
but robbed from other hands ?

We would be unable to find any protest from China or other name of it to Paracels occupation of South of Vietnam. China just come and grabbed it from South of Vietnam ...

Why you do not dare to attack other island in Spratlys those Philippine and Vietnam occupying ?

I guess you still doubt in your theory ? and some Chinese still protesting that theory ...
 

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