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1904 China map admits Paracel, Spratly not Chinese territory

Well, I have more information, the map of China published in 1904 by Shanghai Publishing House. The map possessed by Dr. Mai Hồng, a Vietnamese, a Chinese language expert in Vietnam. He has kept the map from 40 years ago, after he bought it.
This is a video of Dr. Mai Hồng and the map at his home:

This map is a joke! It shows that two of three Northeast provinces don't belong to China. Does that mean China gov believed the two provinces are not part of China's territory? Then whom they belonged to? Back to 1904, no country in the whole world even denied the two provinces belong to China.
 
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This map is a joke! It shows that two of three Northeast provinces don't belong to China. Does that mean China gov believed the two provinces are not part of China's territory? Then whom they belonged to? Back to 1904, no country in the whole world even denied the two provinces belong to China.

No joke bro. It's evident Islands belong to Vietnam. Huge Northeast area of Qing Man lost was to Russian Tzar.
 
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This map is a joke! It shows that two of three Northeast provinces don't belong to China. Does that mean China gov believed the two provinces are not part of China's territory? Then whom they belonged to? Back to 1904, no country in the whole world even denied the two provinces belong to China.

The map of China 1904:
map%202.jpg


The Han-Chinese map published by Shanghai Publishing House in 1904 was created across nearly two decades (1708 – 1904), from the Kangxi Emperor who ruled China from 1661 – 1722 to the Guangxu Emperor from 1875 to 1908, says Dr. Mai Hong, former head of the Library of the Institute for the Study of Chinese and Demotic Scripts and Cultures.

Dr. Mai Hong, who bought the map in 1977, adds that this map will provide some helpful evidence that helps Vietnam get more active in resolving disputes with China over the ownership of the two islands in the East Sea.

According to Pham Hoang Quan, a local researcher on Han-Chinese and Demotic Scripts, the map’s accuracy in terms of longitude and latitude is nearly on par with modern maps.

“This map, measuring 115cm long and 140cm wide, was made by experts at the Observatory of the Qing Dynasty, so it can be considered official,” Quan says.


A Map of Vietnam 1834:

image.jpg

“Đại Nam nhất thống toàn đồ” (A map of Vietnam made in 1834 that claims Hoang Sa and Truong Sa are Vietnam’s territory). Source: Ban Do (Map) Publishing House. Photo by Viet Dung

Truong Sa, Hoang Sa not belong to China: 1904 Chinese map - Truong Sa, Hoang Sa not belong to China: 1904 Chinese map - VOVNEWS.VN
 
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No joke bro. It's evident Islands belong to Vietnam. Huge Northeast area of Qing Man lost was to Russian Tzar.
Obviously you don't know much China history. The three provinces of Northeast have never been occupied by Russia.
 
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map%202.jpg


Do you even know the Chinese characters' meaning in the map? "皇朝直省地舆全图", "直省"mean "the provinces that directly controlled by central government", which definitely can not represent the whole territory.

In Qing dynasty, people always emphasized the "18 provinces", which became core zone of the whole country. In 1911, there was a revolution aiming to overthrow Qing regime. 11 provinces out of the "18 provinces" proclaimed independence from Qing, which almost immediately ended Qing regime.
 
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I have a question: is this guy named Subhas Chandra Bose very famous and be admired in your country???as I know he got a lot of benefit from japan during world war 2 ...I almost understand why u so fight against Chinese. we defeat those guys who ever gave your some bonds . it is ok we can give u bonds too. oh come on, Indian doggy bark bark , if u bark u will get this bond.....lmao

Can Vietnam find map in that time shows that those disputed area belong to Vietnam?
 
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Manchuria today is part of China, Britain is not part of India, so the argument goes.

By that logic, India can claim to the territories which were part of the erstwhile British Empire...

Border disputes in China


China has more neighbours than any country in the world, bordering on 14 other countries. Only the European Union, taken as a whole, has more bordering countries.

With so many fences to keep up, a few disputes can be expected. Here are a few from recent years.

India

Two regions are claimed by both India and China. Aksai Chin is in the disputed territory of Kashmir, at the junction of Pakistan, Tibet and India. India claims the 38,000-square-kilometre territory, currently administered by China.

Arunachal Pradesh is a state of India in the country's northeast, bordering on Bhutan, Bangladesh, Myanmar and China. Though it is under Indian administration, China calls the 90,000-square-kilometre area South Tibet.

Russia

A dispute involving three islands on the rivers that form the border between China and Russia was resolved in October 2004, in a manner King Solomon would have been proud of.

Each of the islands – Bol'shoi Ussuriiskii Island and Tarabarov Island at the juncture of the Amur and Ussuri rivers, near Khabarovsk, Russia, and Bol'shoi Island on the Argun River – was split 50-50, with half of the territory going to each country.

The uninhabited islands had symbolic importance in the control over the rivers.

Japan

The Senkaku Islands are five unpopulated islands in the East China Sea with a total are of seven square kilometres. They are under Japanese control and are considered part of the Japanese Southwest Islands, but the People's Republic of China and Taiwan each claim them as well, calling them the Diaoyutai Islands and Diaoyu Islands, respectively.

In March 2004, a group of seven Chinese activists landed on one of the islands. The Japanese government arrested them for illegal entry and deported them back to China.

Taiwan

The People's Republic of China claims Taiwan, but it is administered by the Republic of China.

Tibet

The Government of Tibet in Exile claims not only the Tibet Autonomous Region under the control of China, but also Qinghai province and parts of surrounding provinces. Tibet in Exile calls the Chinese control of Tibet an illegitimate occupation.

Other disputes

Portions of China's western border with Tajikistan haven't been defined.

A section of the boundary between China and North Korea in the Baitou Mountain area is indefinite.

The Paracel Islands in the South China Sea are administered by China, but claimed by Vietnam and Taiwan. There is also a dispute between China and Vietnam over the maritime boundaries in the Gulf of Tonkin.

The rich fishing rights and possible oil reserves of the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea are claimed by China,Taiwan, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and possibly Brunei.


Tibet Timeline

titlephoto2.jpg

Yumbu Lhakang is seen on the top of a hill of Yarlung Valley near Tsetang, about 200 kilometers, from Lhasa, Tibet, far west of China. The castle-like palace was built by Nyatri Tsanpo, the first Tibetan king, in the 2nd century B.C. The palace plays an important role in the origin of Tibetan history and culture

Tibet is an autonomous region in southwest China with a population of 2.3 million people. The capital of Tibet is Lhasa. Surrounded by mountain ranges, including the Himalayas and the Kunlun, Tibet is mostly a plateau from which the Yangtze, the Mekong and the Thanlwin rivers rise.

The indigenous inhabitants are primarily of Mongolian stock and speak Tibeto-Burman. India, China and Central Asia had ancient trade routes through Tibet.

Pastoral life is still prevalent in Tibet, but the nomadic lifestyle is decreasing as economic development by the Chinese is bringing people into urban centres.

Since 1990, the number of non-Tibetan residents has risen. Until 1959, when there was an unsuccessful revolt, many of the urban dwellers were Buddhist monks. The Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama were the nominal heads of the Tibetan government. Before autonomous rule, the administration was divided between the lamas and the feudal aristocracy
tibet.jpg



Timeline

618-906
During the T'ang dynasty China establishes trade relations with Tibet. Frequent wars of conquest.

8th Century
Scholar Padmasambhava creates Tibetan Buddhism from the Mahayana Buddhism, which was practiced in the Tibet kingdom.

12th Century
Indian Buddhists come to Tibet to flee Muslim invasion.

13th Century
Tibet falls under Mongolian influence, which lasts until 18th century.

1720
Ch'ing dynasty replaces Mongol role in Tibet. China claims control over Tibet, although it is often nominal only.

1788
Gurkhas from Nepal invade Tibet.

1792
Gurkha war with Tibet

1893
Britain obtains a trading post at Yadong.

1904
British Military expedition lead by Sir Francis Younghusband enforces granting of trade posts at Yadong, Gyangze and Gar.

1906
Britain recognizes China's control over Tibet.

1912
With the overthrow of the Ch'ing dynasty in China, Tibet expels the Chinese and reasserts independence.

1913-1914
Britain, Tibet and China hold conferences in India and tentatively work out an agreement under which China maintains control over Tibet and the region is divided into an inner Tibet to be incorporated in China and an outer autonomous Tibet. China, however, doe not ratify the agreement, and continues to claim all of Tibet as a "special territory."

October 1950
Chinese People's Liberation Army invades Tibet. One of the justications is the succession of the 10th Panchen Lama with rival candidates supported by Tibet and China.

May 1951
Tibet becomes a "national autonomous region" under the traditional rule of the Dalai Lama, but actual control is by the Chinese Communist Commission in a Tibetan-Chinese agreement.

1956
Scattered uprisings begin throughout Tibet.

March 1959
Tibetans launch an armed separatist revolt. Thousands die battling Chinese troops as the rebellion is suppressed. The Dalai Lama flees to India with 80,000 followers, establishing a "government-in-exile."

1962
China launches attack along Tibet-India border to reclaim territories it says were wrongly given to India by Britain.

1964
The Panchen Lama, who had accepted Chinese sponsorship, is deposed and replaced by a secular leader after making statements supporting the Dalai Lama.

1965
Tibetan Autonomous Region formally established.

1966
Cultural Revolution begins in China. Red Guards enter the Tibetan capital of Lhasa in a campaign designed to stamp out the so-called "Four Olds": "old customs, old habits, old culture and old thinking." Religious practices are banned and more than 4,000 monasteries are destroyed.

1976
Religious ban is lifted.

1988
Prime Minister of India Rajiv Gandhi visits Beijing, signaling a thaw in relations as New Delhi relaxes its support for complete independence of Tibet.

March 1989
China imposes martial law. Tibet's "government-in-exile" disbands to make way for greater democracy. Elections scheduled for 1991 with set five-year terms for elected representatives.

December 1991
Li Peng visits India, marking the first visit of a Chinese premier in 31 years. India detains 500 Tibetan protesters. China agrees to hold talks with exiled Tibetan leaders.

August 1992
High-level Tibetan exiles go to China to hold "open-minded" talks with Beijing.

June 1993
The Dalai Lama threatens to end the Tibetan fight for independence because of violent pro-democracy activists in Lhasa.

August 1993
The Dalai Lama holds a rare news conference to say he is fighting for political autonomy and not complete independence for Tibet, saying there are seven million Chinese and only six million Tibetans in the region.

April 1994
Mobs burn Tibetan office in Dharamsala India, alleging that a Tibetan stabbed an Indian youth to death. Tibetan activists ask Indian government for protection.

November 1996
Indian police detain 50 Tibetan exiles during Chinese President Jiang Zemin's visit.

April 1998
Tibetan activist Thupten Ngodup dies after setting himself on fire in protest against police efforts to stop a hunger strike. The event signals a growing restlessness among Tibetans.

October 1998
India indicates it would welcome talks between the Dalai Lama and authorities in Beijing.

December 1998
The Dalai Lama says he is open to talks with China "without any precondition, anytime, anywhere."

January 1999
Tibetan youth activists burn flags after invading the Chinese Embassy in New Delhi. China criticizes India for not stopping them.

March 1999
Beijing designates Tibet an "inseparable part of China" and will open the doors to the Dalai Lama provided he drops his demands for independence for Tibet.

October 1999
In front of a crowd of 1,000 in Los Angeles the Dalai Lama predicts China will soften its grip on Tibet in a few years.

October 1999
During a visit to Britain, which was marked by pro-Tibetan independence protests, Chinese President Jiang Zemin rejects demands for China to change its policies on Tibet and on human rights.

November 1999
The Dalai Lama stresses the need for good relations with Beijing and announces he is not seeking independence from China.

December 1999
Dalai Lama says self-rule would satisfy Tibetans but also accuses the Chinese of cultural genocide.

January 1999
The third ranked Tibetan lama flees China in a week-long trek across the Himalayas to India to meet with the Dalai Lama.
 
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I have a question: is this guy named Subhas Chandra Bose very famous and be admired in your country???as I know he got a lot of benefit from japan during world war 2 ...I almost understand why u so fight against Chinese. we defeat those guys who ever gave your some bonds . it is ok we can give u bonds too. oh come on, Indian doggy bark bark , if u bark u will get this bond.....lmao

Can Vietnam find map in that time shows that those disputed area belong to Vietnam?

Why are insulting Indian? Are you sure you could better than them?

On topic: The maps shown that Paracel, Spratly are belong to Viet Nam for the solid time that in mid 18 century. Due to the claims from China on U-Shaped that China maps was draw on 1949 and before that just left it blank.

Until, U.S gave jobs (After Mr. Clinton got Monica BJ) for China to built China to become strong economics, then once its has money to modernize its Navy's.

After China Navy's modernize, then its starting gives out troubles to its neighbors under "Peaceful Rise". It's also strong aggression to the things its claims, most important things its does not any strong solid evident for supporting its claims in SCS. Sometimes, its said base on Ching, Quing, Yuan ....this .. that
 
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Border disputes in China

China_disputes.JPG


China has more neighbours than any country in the world, bordering on 14 other countries. Only the European Union, taken as a whole, has more bordering countries.

With so many fences to keep up, a few disputes can be expected. Here are a few from recent years.

India

Two regions are claimed by both India and China. Aksai Chin is in the disputed territory of Kashmir, at the junction of Pakistan, Tibet and India. India claims the 38,000-square-kilometre territory, currently administered by China.

Arunachal Pradesh is a state of India in the country's northeast, bordering on Bhutan, Bangladesh, Myanmar and China. Though it is under Indian administration, China calls the 90,000-square-kilometre area South Tibet.

Russia

A dispute involving three islands on the rivers that form the border between China and Russia was resolved in October 2004, in a manner King Solomon would have been proud of.

Each of the islands – Bol'shoi Ussuriiskii Island and Tarabarov Island at the juncture of the Amur and Ussuri rivers, near Khabarovsk, Russia, and Bol'shoi Island on the Argun River – was split 50-50, with half of the territory going to each country.

The uninhabited islands had symbolic importance in the control over the rivers.

Japan

The Senkaku Islands are five unpopulated islands in the East China Sea with a total are of seven square kilometres. They are under Japanese control and are considered part of the Japanese Southwest Islands, but the People's Republic of China and Taiwan each claim them as well, calling them the Diaoyutai Islands and Diaoyu Islands, respectively.

In March 2004, a group of seven Chinese activists landed on one of the islands. The Japanese government arrested them for illegal entry and deported them back to China.

Taiwan

The People's Republic of China claims Taiwan, but it is administered by the Republic of China.

Tibet

The Government of Tibet in Exile claims not only the Tibet Autonomous Region under the control of China, but also Qinghai province and parts of surrounding provinces. Tibet in Exile calls the Chinese control of Tibet an illegitimate occupation.

Other disputes
News%20-%20South%20China%20Sea%20with%20claims.gif

Portions of China's western border with Tajikistan haven't been defined.

A section of the boundary between China and North Korea in the Baitou Mountain area is indefinite.

The Paracel Islands in the South China Sea are administered by China, but claimed by Vietnam and Taiwan. There is also a dispute between China and Vietnam over the maritime boundaries in the Gulf of Tonkin.

The rich fishing rights and possible oil reserves of the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea are claimed by China,Taiwan, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and possibly Brunei.
 
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map%202.jpg


Do you even know the Chinese characters' meaning in the map? "皇朝直省地舆全图", "直省"mean "the provinces that directly controlled by central government", which definitely can not represent the whole territory.

In Qing dynasty, people always emphasized the "18 provinces", which became core zone of the whole country. In 1911, there was a revolution aiming to overthrow Qing regime. 11 provinces out of the "18 provinces" proclaimed independence from Qing, which almost immediately ended Qing regime.

You are trying to deny clumsily the china map 1904. :cheesy:
With this map, we will have more evidence to prove the world that so-called "Historical sovereignty of China" is just the lies. :lol:

I have a question: is this guy named Subhas Chandra Bose very famous and be admired in your country???as I know he got a lot of benefit from japan during world war 2 ...I almost understand why u so fight against Chinese. we defeat those guys who ever gave your some bonds . it is ok we can give u bonds too. oh come on, Indian doggy bark bark , if u bark u will get this bond.....lmao

Can Vietnam find map in that time shows that those disputed area belong to Vietnam?

It's here. This is a map of Vietnam in 1834.
You can read the names of two archipelagos on the map was written in Chinese characters means Hoàng Sa (Paracels) and Vạn Lý Trường Sa (Spratlys).
Local names along the coast of Vietnam were also specified using Chinese characters.
Note that at the time Vietnam still used Chinese characters.

image.jpg

“Đại Nam nhất thống toàn đồ” (A map of Vietnam made in 1834 that claims Hoang Sa and Truong Sa are Vietnam’s territory). Source: Ban Do (Map) Publishing House. Photo by Viet Dung.
 
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map%202.jpg


Do you even know the Chinese characters' meaning in the map? "皇朝直省地舆全图", "直省"mean "the provinces that directly controlled by central government", which definitely can not represent the whole territory.

In Qing dynasty, people always emphasized the "18 provinces", which became core zone of the whole country. In 1911, there was a revolution aiming to overthrow Qing regime. 11 provinces out of the "18 provinces" proclaimed independence from Qing, which almost immediately ended Qing regime.

Not only Man Qing map 1904, bro.
In the year 1898, Chinese sea pirates robbed the Imezi Maru Japan ship transported goods under contract for Britain, was in area of hoang Sa Islands of Vietnam. Ambassador of UK in peking protested to China Man Qing. Canton governor answered that the Hoang Sa Islands not belong to China then China don't have responsible about that.
 
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OMG fool, you Vietcong think you now acquire something called "evidence" ?

just look at the title of the map ,
can you read it for me and tell me what does the "直省"(zhíshěng) mean ?

its not a countrywide map but a 直省 map, which means it only refered to parts of the whole

country

you know why are you making such a stupid mistake ?
that is simply because you Vietcong abolished the Chinese HANZI language system—— your old

language system of the ancient times
so you guys can't read any old Vietnam original literature and history records
you try to erase any effects ,connections and memories which were imposed on by china
you think that was a shame
you do this and one obvious side effect is that you succeed in making yourself so ignorant
about what you were,where you are from ,and what's your culture ,your honor and your being

please study carefully to avoid making such an international joke anymore
especially your Vietcong Expert !:taz:
 
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OMG fool, you Vietcong think you now acquire something called "evidence" ?

just look at the title of the map ,
can you read it for me and tell me what does the "直省"(zhíshěng) mean ?

its not a countrywide map but a 直省 map, which means it only refered to parts of the whole

country

you know why are you making such a stupid mistake ?
that is simply because you Vietcong abolished the Chinese HANZI language system—— your old

language system of the ancient times
so you guys can't read any old Vietnam original literature and history records
you try to erase any effects ,connections and memories which were imposed on by china
you think that was a shame
you do this and one obvious side effect is that you succeed in making yourself so ignorant
about what you were,where you are from ,and what's your culture ,your honor and your being

please study carefully to avoid making such an international joke anymore
especially your Vietcong Expert !:taz:

Oh really? You start jumping. How can your ancestors display both of the Paracel archipelago and Spratly archipelago on the map of China while the two archipelagos belong to Vietnam?
Remember that this is just one of many an ancient map of China that we currently own, and all of them were not showing the two archipelagos.... :cheesy:
 
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Not only Man Qing map 1904, bro.
In the year 1898, Chinese sea pirates robbed the Imezi Maru Japan ship transported goods under contract for Britain, was in area of hoang Sa Islands of Vietnam. Ambassador of UK in peking protested to China Man Qing. Canton governor answered that the Hoang Sa Islands not belong to China then China don't have responsible about that.

U.K ambassador's first reaction was to protest to Qing, instead of France gov, which seems more convenient to deal with for them. Doesn't that reveal the fact that "these islands belonging to China" is generally accepted by the world even in 1898? Ignore what the stupid Canton official said. He is a local governor. Has no right to decide territory issues. We all know 99% Qing officials are selfish, greedy and incapable for their positions. That's why the regime collapsed.

As far as I know, some Vienam leaders also admitted islands in SCS belong to China. not just by verbally, but by literally.
 
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U.K ambassador's first reaction was to protest to Qing, instead of France gov, which seems more convenient to deal with for them. Doesn't that reveal the fact that "these islands belonging to China" is generally accepted by the world even in 1898? Ignore what the stupid Canton official said. He is a local governor. Has no right to decide territory issues. We all know 99% Qing officials are selfish, greedy and incapable for their positions. That's why the regime collapsed.

As far as I know, some Vienam leaders also admitted islands in SCS belong to China. not just by verbally, but by literally.

British at that time were in China, so they asked China first, it is not surprised. But important as Chinese responded that the Paracels is not a Chinese territory.
And it is right, how can they take responsibility, while at the time the archipelago belong to Vietnam?

BTW: At that time Hong Kong was a British colony?
 
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