180 Afghan Sikhs and Hindus headed for India

[Kailash Kumar]

180 Afghan Sikhs and Hindus Headed for India

11-8-2020

A group of around 180 Afghanistan Hindu and Sikhs is likely to reach India on Wednesday, the Times of India reported on Tuesday.

Efforts are underway to evacuate relatives of all persons who died in the Kabul bomb blast in March that claimed 25 lives at a Hindu and Sikh place of worship, the report said.

“As many as 180 Sikhs and Hindus are likely to leave Kabul on Wednesday,” sources in Kabul told The Times of India on Monday.

The minority Hindu and Sikh community is in panic following attacks on them, and blamed the Afghan Sikh leadership for not caring about their safety, said sources quoted by The Times of India.

Their number in Afghanistan had come down to around 700, the report said.

The first batch of 11 Afghan Sikhs and Hindus arrived in India on July 26.

https://tolonews.com/afghanistan/180-afghan-sikhs-and-hindus-headed-india

 

[Shantanu_Left]

180 Afghan Sikhs and Hindus Headed for India

11-8-2020

A group of around 180 Afghanistan Hindu and Sikhs is likely to reach India on Wednesday, the Times of India reported on Tuesday.

Efforts are underway to evacuate relatives of all persons who died in the Kabul bomb blast in March that claimed 25 lives at a Hindu and Sikh place of worship, the report said.

“As many as 180 Sikhs and Hindus are likely to leave Kabul on Wednesday,” sources in Kabul told The Times of India on Monday.

The minority Hindu and Sikh community is in panic following attacks on them, and blamed the Afghan Sikh leadership for not caring about their safety, said sources quoted by The Times of India.

Their number in Afghanistan had come down to around 700, the report said.

The first batch of 11 Afghan Sikhs and Hindus arrived in India on July 26.

https://tolonews.com/afghanistan/180-afghan-sikhs-and-hindus-headed-india

@masterchief_mirza

Now this news might trigger RSS in India to become more Islamophobic.

My concern is that a country like Afghanistan is such a failed state that they can't provide security and stability to just 700 religious minorities.

Pakistan definitely has millions of religious minorities including Hindus. So, I'm not holding Pakistan to the same standard as Afghanistan.

Let's not divert the question to how India treats its own Muslim minorities. There are a lot of problems, of course.

But what version of Islam are they following in Afghanistan that they cannot accommodate even 700 religious minorities? Whereas the Gulf States have millions of Hindus (some are citizens), Indonesia and Malaysia also have significant Hindu minorities in millions.

This is a problem unique to Afghanistan. I don't think it can be argued that they are any better quality Muslims than 54 other Muslim nations that do take care of minorities properly.

I think the problem is Taliban, an extremist, fascist ideology which brooks no opposition. To call Taliban by any other name than fascism is an exercise in self-deception.

Need your thoughts on this (hope there are no flames).

@Joe Shearer @xeuss

 

[Qmjd]

@masterchief_mirza

Now this news might trigger RSS in India to become more Islamophobic.

My concern is that a country like Afghanistan is such a failed state that they can't provide security and stability to just 700 religious minorities.

Pakistan definitely has millions of religious minorities including Hindus. So, I'm not holding Pakistan to the same standard as Afghanistan.

Let's not divert the question to how India treats its own Muslim minorities. There are a lot of problems, of course.

But what version of Islam are they following in Afghanistan that they cannot accommodate even 700 religious minorities? Whereas the Gulf States have millions of Hindus (some are citizens), Indonesia and Malaysia also have significant Hindu minorities in millions.

This is a problem unique to Afghanistan. I don't think it can be argued that they are any better quality Muslims than 54 other Muslim nations that do take care of minorities properly.

I think the problem is Taliban, an extremist, fascist ideology which brooks no opposition. To call Taliban by any other name than fascism is an exercise in self-deception.

I think the problem is INDIA, an extremist, fascist ideology which brooks no opposition. To call INDIA by any other name than fascism is an exercise in self-deception.
I CORRECTED YOUR STATEMENT

 

[Qmjd]

@masterchief_mirza

Now this news might trigger RSS in India to become more Islamophobic.

My concern is that a country like Afghanistan is such a failed state that they can't provide security and stability to just 700 religious minorities.

Pakistan definitely has millions of religious minorities including Hindus. So, I'm not holding Pakistan to the same standard as Afghanistan.

Let's not divert the question to how India treats its own Muslim minorities. There are a lot of problems, of course.

But what version of Islam are they following in Afghanistan that they cannot accommodate even 700 religious minorities? Whereas the Gulf States have millions of Hindus (some are citizens), Indonesia and Malaysia also have significant Hindu minorities in millions.

This is a problem unique to Afghanistan. I don't think it can be argued that they are any better quality Muslims than 54 other Muslim nations that do take care of minorities properly.

I think the problem is Taliban, an extremist, fascist ideology which brooks no opposition. To call Taliban by any other name than fascism is an exercise in self-deception.

Need your thoughts on this (hope there are no flames).

I think the problem is INDIA, an extremist, fascist ideology which brooks no opposition. To call INDIA by any other name than fascism is an exercise in self-deception.
I CORRECTED YOUR STATEMENT

 

[Shantanu_Left]

I discuss the shortcomings of India all the time in this forum. So let us not divert from the thread topic: it is about Afghanistan's treatment of ethnic minorities. It has the shabbiest record in the world.

Comparing that with India can be done in a separate thread. Thank you. Let's stay on topic. This is not a thread about India.

 

[Adonis]

It has the shabbiest record in the world.(when you say that india is automatically added to the shabbiest record in the world).

We are no better....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices

 

[Rollno21]

Welcome home

 

[Clutch]

This is a problem unique to Afghanistan. I don't think it can be argued that they are any better quality Muslims than 54 other Muslim nations that do take care of minorities properly.

I think the problem is Taliban, an extremist, fascist ideology which brooks no opposition. To call Taliban by any other name than fascism is an exercise in self-deception.

You posted some good questions... But one flaw.... The Taliban were in total power in Afghanistan for a long time pre-2003... Why wasn't there an exodus of Hindus and Minorities from Afghanistan then?? Why now??

It seems like the Taliban isn't the main push but ISIS... And ISIS is suspected to be supported by Indian RAW in Afghanistan using the logic, the enemy of my enemy is my friend..

 

[Qmjd]

We are no better....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices

ngo`s are the worst cancer for 3rd world countries

 

[masterchief_mirza]

@masterchief_mirza

Now this news might trigger RSS in India to become more Islamophobic.

My concern is that a country like Afghanistan is such a failed state that they can't provide security and stability to just 700 religious minorities.

Pakistan definitely has millions of religious minorities including Hindus. So, I'm not holding Pakistan to the same standard as Afghanistan.

Let's not divert the question to how India treats its own Muslim minorities. There are a lot of problems, of course.

But what version of Islam are they following in Afghanistan that they cannot accommodate even 700 religious minorities? Whereas the Gulf States have millions of Hindus (some are citizens), Indonesia and Malaysia also have significant Hindu minorities in millions.

This is a problem unique to Afghanistan. I don't think it can be argued that they are any better quality Muslims than 54 other Muslim nations that do take care of minorities properly.

I think the problem is Taliban, an extremist, fascist ideology which brooks no opposition. To call Taliban by any other name than fascism is an exercise in self-deception.

Need your thoughts on this (hope there are no flames).

Remarkable. There I was thinking you were a man well seasoned by your extensive travels. It seems there is no escape from the simplistic narratives that pervade our global discourse, even for folks like you.

The Taliban certainly are and have been an extreme group in relative terms, however it is worth noting that without them, Afghanistan would fall under the sway of truly heinous and murderous thugs and straight into an abyss. The Taliban still care about their country and certainly have tried to fix certain elements of its dysfunctionality. The northern alliance or - shall we be blunt here - Indian proxies in Afghanistan are a savage bunch of thugs who would be right at home operating some Mexican drugs cartel. In fact, though the Afghan Taliban are a somewhat disparate and nebulous entity, pragmatically altering their position over time, they did at several junctures attempt to summarily dismiss certain damaging elements of Afghan lifestyle (drug usage and racketeering, "bacha baazi" to name a couple) that the northern alliance happily sustained.

The track record of the Americans and the Indians in Afghanistan is abysmal.

I see no progress whatsoever in the general mentality of this nation's citizens, despite the token social gestures (libraries and NGO offices) made by the more well publicised foreign donors. The rot in terms of basic human rights runs deep. The crimes against women, the exploitation of humans and the politicising of ethnic differences remain rampant. Indeed, the more publicised foreign donors have interest in buying certain leaders to remain loyal as puppets while disregarding the actual needs of the people. The record of actual war crimes committed by NATO soldiers against the Afghan civilians is shocking and when you watch footage of it, it's clear they don't give the slightest damn about their lives or the betterment of those lives.

Pakistan - for all its mistakes and miscalculations in the Afg theatre - does acknowledge that stability of our own western border can only come with some kind of socioeconomic improvements in Afg and some basic implementation of just and sensible governance in Afghanistan's cities. It's ISI that seeks to at least paper over the cracks and smooth out the rough edges so Afg has some chance at progress. Afghans don't wish to live under a bunch of warlords like Dostum. They want stability. Flat-pack libraries from Delhi and trigger happy NATO soldiers on vacation aren't going to bring that.

Indians predictably dismiss Pakistani efforts as "interference" in Afghanistan. I'd like to see what Afg might descend into without Pakistani interference in the lives of afghans on both sides of the Durand line. We've taken on millions of refugees and given them a chance at something better.

Now that I've explained our position and narrative, regarding the hapless minorities stuck in Afg, they are besieged not by the Taliban but by Islamic State Khorasan and its affiliates.

It may have slipped past you undetected but the most recent IS attacks (the Sikh massacre in Kabul and a jailbreak in Jalalabad) both were delivered by Indian IS operatives. Make of this what you will but there are many possible conclusions, the one that is most obvious and is certainly no conspiracy theory is that Delhi is in way over its head - again thanks to the amateur in chief Modi and his melodramatic Bollywood bhakts - in every sense in Afghanistan.

It makes for interesting reading indeed if this is all true and India's man in Kabul (Ghani) has just been shafted and made to look like a complete failure by Modi. If Modi is going to evac these Hindus and Sikhs (let's disregard the histrionics of it all and the strong possibility that once in India, these poor wretches will be forgotten and left to rot somewhere, their purpose as cheap propaganda now served, just like many Pakistani Hindus have found once making the exodus to India's promised land), the diplomatic fallout for Modi's ally Ghani will be substantial.

Pakistan will simply watch with a wry smile.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

You posted some good questions... But one flaw.... The Taliban were in total power in Afghanistan for a long time pre-2003... Why wasn't there an exodus of Hindus and Minorities from Afghanistan then?? Why now??

It seems like the Taliban isn't the main push but ISIS... And ISIS is suspected to be supported by Indian RAW in Afghanistan using the logic, the enemy of my enemy is my friend..

ISIS sounds plausible behind the push.

But RAW? That's again shifting the blame back to India.

What you guys are ignoring is the elephant in the room: it's the Taliban ideology which creates and sustains the level of religious fanaticism leading to elements like ISIS to operate. It's a domino effect of sort.

Now Taliban is not in power in Afghanistan, but they still have a lot of sway in the territories. With the upcoming pullout of US and NATO troops, the Talibans might assume their former role once again.

Let us remember they did destroy the Bamiyan Buddha statues, which were a UNESCO-recognized world heritage site.

As long as you don't condemn that kind of ideology, you're not addressing the root of the problem.

RAW's importance in Afghanistan is being overinflated.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Welcome home

Well they are settlers and not native to afghanistan.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

it's the Taliban ideology which creates and sustains the level of religious fanaticism leading to elements like ISIS to operate.

Hmm. Now I'm worried. Who are you and where is that intelligent guy called Shantanu who used to hang out here?

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Remarkable. There I was thinking you were a man well seasoned by your extensive travels. It seems there is no escape from the simplistic narratives that pervade our global discourse, even for folks like you.

The Taliban certainly are and have been an extreme group in relative terms, however it is worth noting that without them, Afghanistan would fall under the sway of truly heinous and murderous thugs and straight into an abyss. The Taliban still care about their country and certainly have tried to fix certain elements of its dysfunctionality. The northern alliance or - shall we be blunt here - Indian proxies in Afghanistan are a savage bunch of thugs who would be right at home operating some Mexican drugs cartel. In fact, though the Afghan Taliban are a somewhat disparate and nebulous entity, pragmatically altering their position over time, they did at several junctures attempt to summarily dismiss certain damaging elements of Afghan lifestyle (drug usage and racketeering, "bacha baazi" to name a couple) that the northern alliance happily sustained.

The track record of the Americans and the Indians in Afghanistan is abysmal.

I see no progress whatsoever in the general mentality of this nation's citizens, despite the token social gestures (libraries and NGO offices) made by the more well publicised foreign donors. The rot in terms of basic human rights runs deep. The crimes against women, the exploitation of humans and the politicising of ethnic differences remain rampant. Indeed, the more publicised foreign donors have interest in buying certain leaders to remain loyal as puppets while disregarding the actual needs of the people. The record of actual war crimes committed by NATO soldiers against the Afghan civilians is shocking and when you watch footage of it, it's clear they don't give the slightest damn about their lives or the betterment of those lives.

Pakistan - for all its mistakes and miscalculations in the Afg theatre - does acknowledge that stability of our own western border can only come with some kind of socioeconomic improvements in Afg and some basic implementation of just and sensible governance in Afghanistan's cities. It's ISI that seeks to at least paper over the cracks and smooth out the rough edges so Afg has some chance at progress. Afghans don't wish to live under a bunch of warlords like Dostum. They want stability. Flat-pack libraries from Delhi and trigger happy NATO soldiers on vacation aren't going to bring that.

Indians predictably dismiss Pakistani efforts as "interference" in Afghanistan. I'd like to see what Afg might descend into without Pakistani interference in the lives of afghans on both sides of the Durand line. We've taken on millions of refugees and given them a chance at something better.

Now that I've explained our position and narrative, regarding the hapless minorities stuck in Afg, they are besieged not by the Taliban but by Islamic State Khorasan and its affiliates.

It may have slipped past you undetected but the most recent IS attacks (the Sikh massacre in Kabul and a jailbreak in Jalalabad) both were delivered by Indian IS operatives. Make of this what you will but there are many possible conclusions, the one that is most obvious and is certainly no conspiracy theory is that Delhi is in way over its head - again thanks to the amateur in chief Modi and his melodramatic Bollywood bhakts - in every sense in Afghanistan.

It makes for interesting reading indeed if this is all true and India's man in Kabul (Ghani) has just been shafted and made to look like a complete failure by Modi. If Modi is going to evac these Hindus and Sikhs (let's disregard the histrionics of it all and the strong possibility that once in India, these poor wretches will be forgotten and left to rot somewhere, their purpose as cheap propaganda now served, just like many Pakistani Hindus hav and found once making the exodus to India's promised land), the diplomatic fallout for Modi's ally Ghani will be substantial.

Pakistan will simply watch with a wry smile.

I have genuinely not kept track of Afghanistan-related news for a decade. I was only curious about their internal dynamics: that country is the most screwed up place in the world.

Some of your explanations definitely hit the spot, but this blame-gaming on RAW is such a...

Indians used to shout "terrorist, terrorist" at Pakistanis for more than two decades. It seems now Pakistanis are turning the tables back at us. RAW...RAW.

I know how RAW works. They have an office in Delhi, they're low IQ morons. Not capable of anything like Mossad or CIA, not at their level by any stretch.

You guys are giving RAW way too much credit.

Afghanistan's problems are organic and naturally generated.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

ISIS sounds plausible behind the push.

But RAW? That's again shifting the blame back to India.

What you guys are ignoring is the elephant in the room: it's the Taliban ideology which creates and sustains the level of religious fanaticism leading to elements like ISIS to operate. It's a domino effect of sort.

Now Taliban is not in power in Afghanistan, but they still have a lot of sway in the territories. With the upcoming pullout of US and NATO troops, the Talibans might assume their former role once again.

Let us remember they did destroy the Bamiyan Buddha statues, which were a UNESCO-recognized world heritage site.

As long as you don't condemn that kind of ideology, you're not addressing the root of the problem.

RAW's importance in Afghanistan is being overinflated.

Did you hear the taliban arguement for the destruction of those statues ?

3 part video. He raised valid points.. tht said Pak tried to stop them.. but didnt work out. This time the taliban seem much more tolerant, atleast thats the perception considering even talibs are now sending their girl children to school.
As for ISIS those bastards are A grade mofos and are composed of different factions that broke away from taliban aswell as TTP whom Afghan intelligence supported against Pak and now are paying the price.