180 Afghan Sikhs and Hindus headed for India

[Shantanu_Left]

Hmm. Now I'm worried. Who are you and where is that intelligent guy called Shantanu who used to hang out here?

Wow, so just because I criticize Taliban means I am unintelligent. How original? Come on, you can do better than that.

Every nation is sustained by some ideology. For Afghanistan, Taliban has been a dominant narrative for over two decades, possibly longer. So there's something wrong in that ideology which creates this kind of problem.

I agree Northern Alliance may be no saints. And good for the Taliban if they stopped that Bacha Bazi bs, but this thread is about their ideology making the ethnic and religious minorities of Afghanistan virtually unable to live. Leaving them no option but to leave the country.

It's truly bad if they have no alternative to Taliban.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Did you hear the taliban arguement for the destruction of those statues ?

3 part video. He raised valid points.. tht said Pak tried to stop them.. but didnt work out. This time the taliban seem much more tolerant, atleast thats the perception considering even talibs are now sending their girl children to school.
As for ISIS those bastards are A grade mofos and are composed of different factions that broke away from taliban aswell as TTP whom Afghan intelligence supported against Pak and now are paying the price.

Of course, that was just one example. And ISIS are a whole bunch of crazy lunatics, no one should be compared to them.

But in what universe are the Taliban an enlightened bunch of nice people, kindly explain only that much.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Well they are settlers and not native to afghanistan.

Afghanistan does have a Hindu population (albeit very small) for nearly 200-300 years. So they should be considered "natives" as per modern definition.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Afghanistan's problems are organic and naturally generated.

This is true but there is only one country who is interested in reducing those problems. Improving Afghanistan secondarily improves Pakistan's security. Simple.

Now the converse is also true and RAW takes advantage of this by sustaining some of these naturally produced problems.

Your understanding of modern armed terrorist groups (especially ISIS) is shockingly naive. They really don't emerge and sustain themselves on some moralistic flight of fancy - that nonsense doesn't pay bills. ISIS is an asset. It may be an asset that changes hands multiple times like some cheap village harlot but it remains someone's asset at all times. Pakistan literally has nothing to gain from ISIS. Pakistan has something to potentially gain from the Taliban.

The Taliban have repeatedly gone on record denying any association with ISIS and in fact are opposed to them to the point that the two groups are locked in a bloody conflict most of the time when they're not fighting the ANA. ISIS isn't targeting NATO in Afghanistan at all but is focused against the Taliban and ANA. Do you honestly think the heroic talk of ending occupation or targeting oppressors actually resonates with the rank and file of ISIS? No sir. They're doing what they're doing to get paid and create chaos for their paymasters. In south Asia, there's only one country that benefits from ISIS chaos - and it doesn't begin with the letter "P".

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Wow, so just because I criticize Taliban means I am unintelligent. How original? Come on, you can do better than that.

Every nation is sustained by some ideology. For Afghanistan, Taliban has been a dominant narrative for over two decades, possibly longer. So there's something wrong in that ideology which creates this kind of problem.

I agree Northern Alliance may be no saints. And good for the Taliban if they stopped that Bacha Bazi bs, but this thread is about their ideology making the ethnic and religious minorities of Afghanistan virtually unable to live. Leaving them no option but to leave the country.

It's truly bad if they have no alternative to Taliban.

Nobody's saying the Taliban are all cuddles and giggles. Of course they're an extremist group, however they've distanced themselves from crimes against minorities. They didn't attack the minorities and nor do they wish for the minorities to leave. It's clearly ISIS that wants that. If you understood the dynamics between Taliban and ISIS, you'd understand what's going on in Afghanistan. Ignore the grandstanding and publicity campaigns and actually follow the audit trails.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

This is true but there is only one country who is interested in reducing those problems. Improving Afghanistan secondarily improves Pakistan's security. Simple.

Now the converse is also true and RAW takes advantage of this by sustaining some of these naturally produced problems.

Your understanding of modern armed terrorist groups (especially ISIS) is shockingly naive. They really don't emerge and sustain themselves on some moralistic flight of fancy - that nonsense doesn't pay bills. ISIS is an asset. It may be an asset that changes hands multiple times like some cheap village harlot but it remains someone's asset at all times. Pakistan literally has nothing to gain from ISIS. Pakistan has something to potentially gain from the Taliban.

The Taliban have repeatedly gone on record denying any association with ISIS and in fact are opposed to them to the point that the two groups are locked in a bloody conflict most of the time when they're not fighting the ANA. ISIS isn't targeting NATO in Afghanistan at all but is focused against the Taliban and ANA. Do you honestly think the heroic talk of ending occupation or targeting oppressors actually resonates with the rank and file of ISIS? No sir. They're doing what they're doing to get paid and create chaos for their paymasters. In south Asia, there's only one country that benefits from ISIS chaos - and it doesn't begin with the letter "P".

I have never said even once that Pakistan has anything to do with ISIS. I can perfectly accept that Pakistan is fighting ISIS. Good for you guys, may you win.

Now you say that the Taliban are your allies in this battle? I have to check up on that one.

It's impossible for me to accept that the Taliban are the good guys in all of this.

But the situation in Afghanistan reads something like this: on a scale of 1 to 10 of moral depravity, if I had to rank ISIS as 9.9, Taliban would also score a modest 5 or 6. Sure they bring some kind of what you consider "stability," but if that means the religious minorities can't live in peace, then that kind of stability is a cop-out. Don't try to brush the exodus of the minorities as a recent trend. It's been gaining ground right since the 2003 WOT.

The only thing I can conclude here is that Afghanistan is a nation full of scumbags. No saints in that mixture.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Nobody's saying the Taliban are all cuddles and giggles. Of course they're an extremist group, however they've distanced themselves from crimes against minorities. They didn't attack the minorities and nor do they wish for the minorities to leave. It's clearly ISIS that wants that. If you understood the dynamics between Taliban and ISIS, you'd understand what's going on in Afghanistan. Ignore the grandstanding and publicity campaigns and actually follow the audit trails.

Damn, now you're saying what I really want to hear. All right, in summary, the Talibans are kinda the better deal.

If I go to prison, I would rather be in cell-Block B with a mad preacher than cell-Block A with "Bubba." Real Sophie's choice for Afghan religious minorities.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

. Don't try to brush the exodus of the minorities as a recent trend. It's been gaining ground right since the 2003 WOT.

I don't know the trends but if the exodus began when the northern alliance, NATO and ISIS all came to the party and overthrew the Taliban, what does that tell you in terms of circumstantial evidence. The Taliban have been around since the Soviet occupation. After 9-11 they lost power. Only in the last 5 years have they started to regain some.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

impossible for me to accept that the Taliban are the good guys in all of this.

Again, it doesn't matter. Pakistan cares about its western security.

Here are Pakistan's options:

1. Northern Alliance (ANA) coalition and ISIS taking turns launching raids against our border posts, with the full blessing (at the very least) of NATO and India (it may be more than a simple "blessing" though; if I were India, I would most certainly actively try to destabilise Pakistan's western border).

2. Taliban, who won't attack us.

You advise me on which horse to back here.

Additionally, as we have established, Taliban is more progressive (or at least less regressive) than most of the alternatives.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Again, it doesn't matter. Pakistan cares about its western security.

Here are Pakistan's options:

1. Northern Alliance (ANA) coalition and ISIS taking turns launching raids against our border posts, with the full blessing (at the very least) of NATO and India (it may be more than a simple "blessing" though; if I were India, I would most certainly actively try to destabilise Pakistan's western border).

2. Taliban, who won't attack us.

You advise me on which horse to back here.

Additionally, as we have established, Taliban is more progressive (or at least less regressive) than most of the alternatives.

No....my India is innocent. It never, never support anything of that sort. Never means never. Pure Pakistani propaganda. This discussion is over now.

--

Thanks for some of the explanations. So Taliban is just a useful partner for Pakistan, which would be ok.

As for RAW, yes there might be elements that cause that kind of instability, but I have a hard time believing that RAW would ally with ISIS. That's a whole another level of fan fiction.

ISIS is India's enemy. Why will RAW partner with those crazed terrorists? It doesn't make sense at all. It's nothing but Pakistani propaganda (which is OK but don't expect non-Pakistanis to believe it).

 

[Clutch]

As long as you don't condemn that kind of ideology, you're not addressing the root of the problem.

How do you know i didn't condemn it? Where did you read of my endorsement?

That's the problem with non-muslims... They expect us to 24/7 just condemn the Extremist... What r we???. Your parrot??? !

 

[Shantanu_Left]

How do you know i didn't condemn it? Where did you read of my endorsement?

That's the problem with non-muslims... They expect us to 24/7 just condemn the Extremist... What r we???. Your parrot??? !

Well you guys expect us to condemn RSS-Hindutvadis, beef lynching, and so many other things? Which I certainly do.

So it's your turn to return the favour, no?

 

[xeuss]

No....my India is innocent. It never, never support anything of that sort. Never means never. Pure Pakistani propaganda. This discussion is over now.

--

Thanks for some of the explanations. So Taliban is just a useful partner for Pakistan, which would be ok.

As for RAW, yes there might be elements that cause that kind of instability, but I have a hard time believing that RAW would ally with ISIS. That's a whole another level of fan fiction.

ISIS is India's enemy. Why will RAW partner with those crazed terrorists? It doesn't make sense at all. It's nothing but Pakistani propaganda (which is OK but don't expect non-Pakistanis to believe it).

In the murky world of terrorism and geopolitical interests, everyone is using someone to further their interests.

If as alleged there is a RAW/ISIS/TTP nexus, it likely is limited, probably just to the players in Afghanistan that attack the interests of India. It's not like they signed an alliance agreement with full protocols. What likely happens is that as information is leaked or picked up that ISIS/TTP needs arms or explosives, agencies like RAW or maybe NDS facilitate this.

Keep in mind that this exists only as long as ISIS attacks Pak interests. If that were to change, I doubt RAW or India will still continue with this policy.

 

[Clutch]

Well you guys expect us to condemn RSS-Hindutvadis, beef lynching, and so many other things? Which I certainly do.

So it's your turn to return the favour, no?

Are you asked to condemn at every breath and every discussion about India??... No.

You will find that most here of PDF condemn extremist here... However, there is a bit of a differentiation between Afghan Taliban and the ISIS/Al Qaeeda/Wahabbi extremism...

The Afghan Taliban were a total failure during their rule of Afghanistan pre-9/11... Their ideology remains a failure...

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Are you asked to condemn at every breath and every discussion about India??... No.

You will find that most here of PDF condemn extremist here... However, there is a bit of a differentiation between Afghan Taliban and the ISIS/Al Qaeeda/Wahabbi extremism...

The Afghan Taliban were a total failure during their rule of Afghanistan pre-9/11... Their ideology remains a failure...

Bus...you condemned it already. Yahi sunna tha. You have done your part, congratulations and thank you. Have a NICE DAY