16th December 1971: From East Pakistan to Bangladesh

[khair_ctg]

I do believe the federation would have sustained itself had civilian leadership of PAK was more pragmatic and the army didn't intervene from the start. Even in 71 if mujib was allowed to be PM he most likely would not have lasted the full term. Worse case scenario- it would have been an amicable separation with strong bilateral ties. He wanted to be the PM of PAK as he was a typical politician with ambitions but 0 administrative skills. Bhutto was worse though. He was the primary reason for 71 debacle IMHO. His racist feudal mentality came very handy to Indira gandhi.


I guess it was a partial victory for India. Did u know many WB intellectuals were dreaming of annexing BD/E.PAK and i don't think it was completely out of Indira's long term goals. But E.Bengal political dynamic didn't allow their wet dream to materialize. If BD becomes strong with AL and other indian dalals firmly in the pages of history with no trace in BD, then u can say that India lost in 71.

True. but who did not allow Sheikh Mujib to be PM? Sheikh Mujib becoming PM would have been India's worst nightmare. intelligence officers like Yuri Bezmenov have explained what was going on behind the scenes including the massive logistics mobilized to destabilize East Pakistan and then turn it into a joke.

the subversive activities had likely started in full swing from the 1970 national elections all the way up to March 1971, when India-USSR achieved their goal i.e. prompt United Pak government to launch full military operations. United Pakistan could have either tried to stop the sabotages taking place (which they did although in an ill-advised manner) or they could have let East Pakistan get taken over by India without any resistance. East Pakistan was doomed anyway.

East Pakistan's sorry situation at that point could be traced back to the history of this land, of its populace and the imperialist nature of the 500 ton gorilla next door, India.

I agree with you about Zulfiqar Bhutto

 

[syedali73]

maybe

but there was no shortage of Bengali Muslim PMs and Prime Ministers who came to power during United Pakistan, and they could have decided East and West Pakistan to be autonomous or self-governing. the fact is, that is not what the East Pakistanis wanted and East Pakistanis wanted to be with West Pakistan until India forced a separation.

My recollection of the history suggests that the Bengali leaders always wanted an independent state. In-fact, Mr. Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy (then Chief Minister of the United Bengal), together with other Bengali nationalists such as Abul Hashim, Sarat Chandra Bose, Satya Ranjan Bakshi, Kiran Shankar Roy, and MA Chaudhury demanded for an independent Bengal and they indeed had the support of the masses. Mr. Suhrawardy even went on with a press conference on 27 April 1947 in Delhi, and presented the proposal. I seriously doubt Mr. Suhrawardy was doing all this with the consent of Quid-e-Azam.

In my opinion, post-1947, a majority of Bengali leaders and the masses were every bit interested in the idea of an independent Bengal but rather unsure of its survivability (due to post-partition Indian animosity) without the help of the West Pakistan, hence it was delayed. Once Bengali leaders found India on their side, they took little time to sever their relations with the West Pakistan. I do agree that West Pakistani leaders made no concerted and serious effort to change the mind of the Bengalis, in-fact pushed them hard towards the extreme nationalism.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I reviewed the history and , it can be rewritten

 

[extra terrestrial]

Rare video: Bangladeshi freedom fighters are taking oath in 1971 | Page 12

@extra terrestrial

there is nothing subjective about who was what in 1971. the Bengali Muslims who fought against their own nation (East Pakistan) were traitors - they fought FOR India and USSR.

this is not a freedom fighter-terrorist dilemma. from natives' POV, whoever works FOR the enemy (India) is a traitor. and whoever works FOR their country is a patriot or plain sane citizen. apart from a handful of extremist ultra-leftists, no Bengali voted PAL to make their country an Indian property period.

stop this sentiment because that is the rubbish that the BAL dominated media and education system taught us (including myself). there is nothing subjective; a traitor is a traitor. many Bengali irregulars ("muktis") realized very soon after 1971 that they were fighting against THEMSELVES and serving Indo-Soviet interests. some of those irregulars as well known as Kadir Siddiqui are beginning to realize that at present. my own relatives got shipment of arms to fight as "muktis". unfortunately there was a lot of messy incidents that shares no resemblance to the epic heroism narrative India and our India-dominated system promotes.

Again, how was Mukti Bahini formed? Who declared the independence? It was the Bengali officers in the Pakistan armed forces who led the Mukti Bahini, the same officers who even won several gallantry awards while fighting against the 'enemy' few years back. Do you consider the likes of MAG Osmani, Ziaur Rahman as terrorist? Sheikh Mujib never aspired to have independent Bangladesh, the Mujib Bahini had no role in the war and AL leaders were just spending a holiday in Kolkata.

And do you really think Mukti Bahini would have become successful without the local support? Take the example of Shanti Bahini, despite continuous backing from India did they ever demanded independence? Nope.

Indeed, the post war looting and other activities by Indian troops made the people against India, this is what you are terming as the realization. Nobody regretted their participation in the liberation war.

 

[khair_ctg]

Again, how was Mukti Bahini formed? Who declared the independence? It was the Bengali officers in the Pakistan armed forces who led the Mukti Bahini, the same officers who even won several gallantry awards while fighting against the 'enemy' few years back. Do you consider the likes of MAG Osmani, Ziaur Rahman as terrorist? Sheikh Mujib never aspired to have independent Bangladesh, the Mujib Bahini had no role in the war and AL leaders were just spending a holiday in Kolkata.

And do you really think Mukti Bahini would have become successful without the local support? Take the example of Shanti Bahini, despite continuous backing from India did they ever demanded independence? Nope.

Indeed, the post war looting and other activities by Indian troops made the people against India, this is what you are terming as the realization. Nobody regretted their participation in the liberation war.

you are mixing up two broad folds of the Bengali armed movement. the war was started in urban areas through various ceremonial activities (like replacing national flag posts with 'Bangladesh' flag), illegal armaments in places like DU and carrying out attacks and kidnapping along political and ethnic lines, mass riots, etc. our military made a stupid move that fed into the armed and informational war launch by USSR-backed India. the informational war had been going on for a long time. pitting the Bengali armymen against their non-Bengali colleagues was the icing in the cake for the anti-Pakistan forces, and they were helped by the stupid decisions of the military in making that happen.

the civilian traitors (Nucleus et al) had powerful backing and took advantage of the likes of Zia and Mohammad Ata, who were knowingly or unknowingly working against the interests of this landmass and against the concept of Pakistan that Muslims in Bengal struggled immensely for. the Bengali population's sympathies were mostly with Sheikh Mujib but the public was largely not able to comprehend or control the game played by India and USSR, and at the same time, the public's sympathies were in favour of a United Pakistan, and less so for autonomous but sovereign East and West Pakistan(s), and never so for an East Pakistan under Indian rule. the latter is what happened against our wishes. what's funny is fools like you and me were taught more bizarre things

 

[khair_ctg]

My recollection of the history suggests that the Bengali leaders always wanted an independent state. In-fact, Mr. Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy (then Chief Minister of the United Bengal), together with other Bengali nationalists such as Abul Hashim, Sarat Chandra Bose, Satya Ranjan Bakshi, Kiran Shankar Roy, and MA Chaudhury demanded for an independent Bengal and they indeed had the support of the masses. Mr. Suhrawardy even went on with a press conference on 27 April 1947 in Delhi, and presented the proposal. I seriously doubt Mr. Suhrawardy was doing all this with the consent of Quid-e-Azam.

In my opinion, post-1947, a majority of Bengali leaders and the masses were every bit interested in the idea of an independent Bengal but rather unsure of its survivability (due to post-partition Indian animosity) without the help of the West Pakistan, hence it was delayed. Once Bengali leaders found India on their side, they took little time to sever their relations with the West Pakistan. I do agree that West Pakistani leaders made no concerted and serious effort to change the mind of the Bengalis, in-fact pushed them hard towards the extreme nationalism.

Husein Suharwardi called for United Bengal without stepping away from Muslim nationalism aka Pakistan. and he had MA Jinnah's backing in having West Bengal as part of an all-Bengal state, a part of East Pakistan or even a Bengistan.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Rare video: Bangladeshi freedom fighters are taking oath in 1971 | Page 12

@extra terrestrial

there is nothing subjective about who was what in 1971. the Bengali Muslims who fought against their own nation (East Pakistan) were traitors - they fought FOR India and USSR.

this is not a freedom fighter-terrorist dilemma. from natives' POV, whoever works FOR the enemy (India) is a traitor. and whoever works FOR their country is a patriot or plain sane citizen. apart from a handful of extremist ultra-leftists, no Bengali voted PAL to make their country an Indian property period.

stop this sentiment because that is the rubbish that the BAL dominated media and education system taught us (including myself). there is nothing subjective; a traitor is a traitor. many Bengali irregulars ("muktis") realized very soon after 1971 that they were fighting against THEMSELVES and serving Indo-Soviet interests. some of those irregulars as well known as Kadir Siddiqui are beginning to realize that at present. my own relatives got shipment of arms to fight as "muktis". unfortunately there was a lot of messy incidents that shares no resemblance to the epic heroism narrative India and our India-dominated system promotes.

long story short is that Pakistani CIVILIAN (not military, but civilian) leadership made a bunch of political ****-ups due to ego and other reasons; and india - as per our perspective -supported a terrorist organization which used india as a launching pad for insurgency/sabotage/ethnic cleansing operations.


LOOKING TO TODAY -BD is a developing nation with tremendous potential and a young population....It will be served better by representative leadership....not a witch puppet of a lady who just doesnt seem to give up on her visceral hatred of Pakistan and her willingness to be india's chamcha (often at the expense and dignity of her own nation)

largest killer of Bangladeshi peoples today is india - namely its border security forces

 

[Bong]

our military made a stupid move

So you are self claimed jamat supporter and still a Pakistani boot licker.

That tells a lot why today its essential to dissolve this fraction.

Either the supporter of Bangladesh will live in this country or the Pakistanis.

As you are a minority I fully support what AL is doing today. BNP, JAPA and other Islamic parties are pro BD.
Only you couldn't come out of it.

 

[Luffy 500]

So you are self claimed jamat supporter and still a Pakistani boot licker.

Just because someone doesn't hold your bias views doesn't make him a jamati. Look at how
@extra terrestrial is arguing with @khair_ctg. None of them r giving the other a party label. BD is not a politically monolithic society and this is something awami chetona addicts must come to terms with, otherwise they will be obliterated Insha'Allah. JeI is as much bangladeshis today as u and me and its here to stay whether u like it or not.

That tells a lot why today its essential to dissolve this fraction.

It doesn't tell anything apart from the fact that u want to remain intolerant of opposition views. Anyway u can't practically dissolve a party that has 10% electoral support in BD.

Either the supporter of Bangladesh will live in this country or the Pakistanis.

Who decided that? U? How do u define supporter of BD and PAK? Those that doesn't fit your ignorant bias narrative becomes anti-BD? Your subjective narration doesn't define bangladeshis.

As you are a minority I fully support what AL is doing today. BNP, JAPA and other Islamic parties are pro BD.
Only you couldn't come out of it.

All islamic parties in 71 were against separation and they had justifiable logical grounds for that. Your definition of pro- BD is also subjective and hence prone to bias.


Btw unconditional loyalty to AL and praising mujib while bending over backwards to serve India isn't pro-BD, if that's what u mean. Such "pro-BDs" are a minority in BD.

 

[khair_ctg]

So you are self claimed jamat supporter and still a Pakistani boot licker.

That tells a lot why today its essential to dissolve this fraction.

Either the supporter of Bangladesh will live in this country or the Pakistanis.

As you are a minority I fully support what AL is doing today. BNP, JAPA and other Islamic parties are pro BD.
Only you couldn't come out of it.

So you wish the extermination of patriotic people - ones who oppose Indian annexation and proxy control of this land. And what else does one expect from an ethnic fundamentalist educated in the unofficial Indian province/Indian prison called Bangladesh. Your name says a lot, a Sanskrit term after the pre-Muslim term "vanga" that Bengali Hindus have also called "bongo". hence "bong" a popular term for Bengali babus of India that does not even exist in BD popular culture. Maybe the "Bangladesh" you think you are part of is something India gave birth to in 1971. The "Bangladesh" i think i am a part of existed from time immemorial and exists (or supposed to exist) as a separate entity for a long history of events culminating into 1947. The only ones who should be eligible to claim Bangladeshi are those who accept the latter. But i don't wish for the extermination of Indian bootlickers claiming to be the "purest BDis" either. Because that is the reality of this land. Since the Hindu takeover of Bengal in the 18th century, the Muslims although greater in number will always be the subservient minnows as shown by your subservient vile mindset.
I do bootlick the concept of Pakistan because i'm a BDi nationalistic person. I bootlick Pakistan because it is my dad's property; because it was born in Dhaka. And news for you is notable people from across BNP, BAL and JeI are doing the same

 

[Bong]

Just because someone doesn't hold your bias views doesn't make him a jamati. Look at how
@extra terrestrial is arguing with @khair_ctg. None of them r giving the other a party label. BD is not a politically monolithic society and this is something awami chetona addicts must come to terms with otherwise they will be obliterated for the sake of this country Insha'Allah. JeI is as much bangladeshis today as u and me and its here to stay whether u like it or not.

@khair_ctg replied me in another thread he is proud jamat supporter. He has allergy only when someone calls him jamati. Your backing isnt necessary.

 

[Bong]

So you wish the extermination of patriotic people - ones who oppose Indian annexation and proxy control of this land. And what else does one expect from an ethnic fundamentalist educated in the unofficial Indian province/Indian prison called Bangladesh. Your name says a lot, a Sanskrit term after the pre-Muslim term "vanga" that Bengali Hindus have also called "bongo". hence "bong" a popular term for Bengali babus of India that does not even exist in BD popular culture. Maybe the "Bangladesh" you think you are part of is something India gave birth to in 1971. The "Bangladesh" i think i am a part of existed from time immemorial and exists (or supposed to exist) as a separate entity for a long history of events culminating into 1947. The only ones who should be eligible to claim Bangladeshi are those who accept the latter. But i don't wish for the extermination of Indian bootlickers claiming to be the "purest BDis" either. Because that is the reality of this land. Since the Hindu takeover of Bengal in the 18th century, the Muslims although greater in number will always be the subservient minnows as shown by your subservient vile mindset.
I do bootlick the concept of Pakistan because i'm a BDi nationalistic person. I bootlick Pakistan because it is my dad's property; because it was born in Dhaka. And news for you is notable people from across BNP, BAL and JeI are doing the same

Please do boot lick anyone. No one cares. But only looks stupid when someone other than Bangladeshis look on this nation how much confuse this nation is. Within some years how many identities they made. How insecure these people are.

I welcome your anti BD and pro Pakistani views. But are you pro India too, as it was your nation too?

JI and AL has their own versions of history. ALs one go with the majority. Both has their logics.
But JI is also growing in number. When JI will be the majority this country will see another war. Also will pull our legs behind.
So its high time to demolish it when its showing some signs.

I wish your extermination as you wont understand how dangerous you are for everything.
I wish your extermination as I wish it for ISIS also. They are also very patriotic..

 

[Bong]

It doesn't tell anything apart from the fact that u want to remain intolerant of opposition views. Anyway u can't practically dissolve a party that has 10% electoral support in BD.


Who decided that? U? How do u define supporter of BD and PAK? Those that doesn't fit your ignorant bias narrative becomes anti-BD? Your subjective narration doesn't define bangladeshis.

Who he thinks to join Pakistan and India should be treated mercilessly. Defaming them and their families equally. Bangladesh is a reality. Who he denies it should be sent to straight hell. We were always separate and always will be.

All islamic parties in 71 were against separation and they had justifiable logical grounds for that. Your definition of pro- BD is also subjective and hence prone to bias.


Btw unconditional loyalty to AL and praising mujib while bending over backwards to serve India isn't pro-BD, if that's what u mean. Such "pro-BDs" are a minority in BD.

Anyone who accepts BD and supports its spirit of separate identity movements should be pro BD. All are just joker.

 

[Luffy 500]

Who he thinks to join Pakistan and India should be treated mercilessly. Defaming them and their families equally. Bangladesh is a reality. Who he denies it should be sent to straight hell. We were always separate and always will be.

That's the mentality of a low life racist intolerant bigot of the highest order. U want to kill people based on political lines? Typical awami chetona mentality living in your la la land.

Anyone who accepts BD and supports its spirit of separate identity movements should be pro BD. All are just joker.

As i said before idea of pro-this and pro-that r subjective and based on political beliefs of individuals in which case yours is based on bigoted awami chetona mentality. Define spirit of separate identity? Awami chetona spirit is NOT BD's identity. AL is just a faction of BD's vast polity and doesn't define BD. There's a reason it has many parties like BNP with Bangladeshi nationalism and islamic parties who aspire BD to focus on its muslim identity.

Jokers r those whose world start with 71 and end with 71.

 

[Bong]

That's the mentality of a low life racist intolerant bigot of the highest order. U want to kill people based on political lines? Typical awami chetona mentality living in your la la land.


As i said before idea of pro-this and that r subjective based on political narrative of individual in which case your's is based on bigoted awami chetona mentality. Define spirit of separate identity? Awami chetona spirit is NOT BD's identity. AL is just a faction of BD's vast polity and doesn't define BD. There's a reason it has many parties like BNP with Bangladeshi nationalism and islamic parties who aspire BD to focus on its muslim identity.

Jokers r those whose world start with 71 and end with 71.
And stop defaming BNP its pro BD than anyone

Stop these jokes. BNP walas are more 71 minded than AL walas. Thats 90% mentality. The 10% you claimed includes some percents from BNP.