12 year old boy being produced in court under police custody

[notsuperstitious]

IVC fantasy is the last resort of the scoundrel.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Anyways, I am Shia. Our largest political party (PPP) is Shia, most people in our govt. are Shia, and Shia's have top spots in our govt. Same cannot be said about Indian Muslims

First, there is always place in India when the Sipah e Sahaba have finally made life impossible for you.

Second, we have had three Muslim presidents, any number of ministers, past and present, as many chiefs of staff as the Sikhs, and numerous Supreme Court judges, including the next Chief Justice. It is when a Muslim citizen does not get fair treatment that there is an uproar, not the other way around, where a Hindu in the cricket team has people falling over themselves. You will forgive us wondering what the fuss is about when two of our most successful captains of cricket have been, incidentally, Muslims.

Nope .... exploit to the core.

Shame the shameless.

Enjoy the frivolity in replies.

I am reading this as I balance on my right big toe, dressed in my tutu, my favourite wig on, pondering what shade of lipstick I should urge on you as my frivolous contribution to the proceedings.

 

[Ticker]

Actually our identity is quite secure. Our identity is based on the hymns of the Rig Veda, and stems from the common heritage shared with the Iranians before the people split. This is a heritage which we protected through 3,500 years, with no breaks. Our heritage is the efflorescent literature and culture of the Sangam era, which encapsulated hundreds of years of previous cultured existence, as famed traders and merchants. Our heritage is of the rich literature and profound philosophy of the Upanishads, which rocked the western world, not indirectly, but directly. Our heritage is the sublime thought of the Buddha, and of Mahavira, who within a short span of each other, outlined religious directions that are followed by millions today. Our heritage is the Mauryan Empire, and the architecture of Sanchi and Bharhut, the sculpture of Gandharva and of Mathura. Our heritage is of a glittering galaxy of authors, poets and playwrights, kings and the nobility among them, as well as those humble of station who were raised for their talent, who still delight the world in translation, and of collections of stories and fables which between them formed the cultural background of the western world.

It goes on and on, an unbroken chain, with each link intelligible to the next, a heritage that is ours in the original high languages and in literally dozens arising from them, so that a Tamilian today can delight in the Silappadikaram as much as contemporaries of its princely author could. The landscape is profusely endowed with the temples and public buildings that this heritage built, all but the landscape now occupied by your unfortunate state, that has spent its time in destroying, not preserving. We have our heritage, since we embraced it. When the Turks came in, their monuments were built not by other Turks, but by Indians, and it is therefore ours: our sweat, blood and toil went into the Adhai Din Ka Jhopra, the Qutb Minar, into Tughlaqabad, into Agra, into Jaunpur, into Allahabad, into Lucknow, into Ahmedabad, into Bijapur, Golconda, Berar, Hyderabad, Ahmadnagar...where should I stop?

The answer is that I need not. We inherited it, proudly, including all, excluding none, and we continue to build. No quest for identity for us, for we know, and move ahead secure.

Have you ever seen among Indians the heated controversies about 'our' identity that we see among you?

What you are describing has essentially emanated from the core of earth where I live and my ancestors have lived for thousands of years. And we have preserved this much more than you have sought destruction of.

We are not Afghans, about whom Saadi said long long time ago:

Agar qahat-ur-rijal uftad
Az an seh mihr kuamjui
Awwal Afghan, doem Khumbu, soyum bazat Kashmiri.
Zeh Khumbu hila me ayad
Zeh Afghan kina me ayad
Zah Kashmiri na me ayad bajuz anduh wa dilgiri

Majority of what you talk about has been built by our people and some later by the British and this is what you display to the world - what else do you have to show the world, Mathura!

You didn't inherit anything but the outlaying non-structures, most of which does not even display your forced adptation of a civilization of which we hold the cradle and we are the scions of.

The rhetorical though impressive outlay of yours does you no good because you look towards the land that we own as the cradle of the civilization that we hold and not you. And we as the scions of Indus Valley Civilisation, are now Muslims.

The debate as to when Rig Vida came in to existence is heating up in India - before or after the Aryan Invasion. There are many who say that the names of places mentioned in the Reg Veda are just emplacements over geographical features that existed then and some may be now, and do not correspond to the actual ones as these names or so-called nouns may not be nouns at all. These are interesting discussions, which at the end of the day seem to me that these are efforts aimed at seeking an identity - either in Aryan Invasion Theory or Out of India Theory.

However, many still hold on to and force others to hold on to the authenticity of Reg Veda, without which so much would be lost.

At the end of the day, You are not the scion of Indus valley Civilization - I AM - period.

And that hurts you like nothing more. Please, understand the reality and learn to live with it.

as we are muslims our identity starts from the adam and eve ,nooh ............

And a foot of Adam is embedded on a hill in Sri Lanka - meaning thereby, that we have rightfully claimed our land as scions of Indus valley civilization and as Muslims as well.

IVC fantasy is the last resort of the scoundrel.

wow ...... when you can't answer logically, you abuse. A civility expressed by obese intellectuals particularly who are uneducated at best and hide their knowledge in the fat that they wear.

First, there is always place in India when the Sipah e Sahaba have finally made life impossible for you.

Second, we have had three Muslim presidents, any number of ministers, past and present, as many chiefs of staff as the Sikhs, and numerous Supreme Court judges, including the next Chief Justice. It is when a Muslim citizen does not get fair treatment that there is an uproar, not the other way around, where a Hindu in the cricket team has people falling over themselves. You will forgive us wondering what the fuss is about when two of our most successful captains of cricket have been, incidentally, Muslims.



I am reading this as I balance on my right big toe, dressed in my tutu, my favourite wig on, pondering what shade of lipstick I should urge on you as my frivolous contribution to the proceedings.

Please do invite me to the mixture of straight and gay communion.

I would like to reserve my seat in those straight and upright chairs where one could go to sleep the moment the play begins.

 

[pk_baloch]

And a foot of Adam is embedded on a hill in Sri Lanka - meaning thereby, that we have rightfully claimed our land as scions of Indus valley civilization and as Muslims as well.

AND WE ARE THE CHILDREN OF ADAM ,EVE AND NOOH ETC SO OUR HISTORY IS MORE OLDER THAN zoroastrianism,BUDDUSIUM AND OTHERS....
THE dravidians are basically from africa.......and there religion or watever was not hindusium .......

 

[Ticker]

Ah, so there we are. Not the heritage of the residents of the places where in 1929, the British found a dead civilization, with no links to its surroundings. This was within a few years of the Lahore Resolution, and no mention of these dreadful pagan remains came into those august deliberations.

No, the heritage sought was not Muslim either, it was conquistador Muslim. Not a single sub-continental Muslim, until our candidate from the legacy Indian state of Ferghana slips in.

It would add weight to your arguments if you had named your weapons after Sher Shah, or Muhammad bin Tughlaq, or Alauddin Khilji before him. Great conquerors, who left a permanent stamp on your history and mine. But no, Muslim was not enough, ithD to be those who crushed the Punjab and Sind under their iron heel.

Reading what the Gakkhars did to one of these invaders makes interesting reading. Reading about the resistance of the Shahi kings, still part of your heritage, makes stirring reading. But when it comes to heroes, as the Albanians used to say in my young days, "We and the Chinese are 600 million strong!" (nothing wrong with those figures; it's just that I am very old).

At the time of upheavals like in 47, the overwhelming need was to create a separate nation out of those who didn't have one for centuries and wanted, by any means expressible, an identity which they thought that they had lost over 4-5-6000 years ago. They took out the Ashoka emblems and claimed their own and produced Savarkars who reminded them of their greatness and sought revenge from those Maleech, who ruled them for a very very long time, while still keeping the untouchables, whom he would not touch and if he would, by the dint of misfortune, Ganga was always nearby to don purity in to his soul again.

Yes, while the Maleech ruled, some became less Maleech and were named Babars, others would join the Maleech against its own kith and kin for lust of adventure or retainment of the power that he held. Yes, on occasion the Gorkhas would hurt them and the Sikhs would fight a classic guerrilla warfare to avenge destruction.

However, it were not them who took the reigns when the Maleech weakened - it was the British. When the British left, the Muslim Maleech, still managed to carve out the costliest piece of land and kept it for keeps.

The land was and is the heritage of the whole of what Muslims and those before them cradled and the land was the Indus valley Civilization and thus the scions who remained in it for thousands of years, changing religions and peoples became Muslim.

You don't have that heritage - we have it and we will keep it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Or most of the Indians, Dalits or shoodars, Muslims, Christians, Lower Caste Hindus, except for some upper caste Indian Hindu Brahmins.

OK, let's count.

Jammu & Kashmir - Muslim (sorry, we had to let them do a Sunni; next time?)
Himachal Pradesh - Rajput
Punjab - Sikh
Rajasthan - Rajput
Gujarat - Shudra (yeah; THE Gujarat)
Haryana - Jat (backward caste)
UP - Yadav (backward caste)
Bihar - Kurmi (backward caste)
Jharkhand - tribal
West Bengal - BRAHMIN! (Yay, Ticker, you can breathe again!)
Sikkim - Lepcha (tribal)
Assam - Ahom (tribal)
Arunachal Pradesh - tribal
Meghalaya - tribal
Nagaland - tribal
Mizoram - tribal
Manipur - Tribal
Tripura - backward caste
Odisha - Forward caste (not clear)
Jharkhand - Tribal
Chhatisgarh - Rajput
Madhya Pradesh - Rajput
Maharashtra - Backward caste
Andhra Pradesh - forward caste
Karnataka - Shudra
Goa - Brahmin
Kerala - Christian
Tamil Nadu - Brahmin
Puducherri - backward caste


Doesn't look too good, Ticker.

Out of 29 reporting to the starting line, only three are Brahmin; Four are Rajput; and two are "forward caste.

Of the Brahmins, one of them, Jayalalitha, is hardly Brahmin, being a member of the Dravidian movement, which violently rejects caste. Another, a loose cannon, has just got into trouble for her pseudo-Muslim act: hijab, hands raised in prayer, Insh'allah and Khuda Hafiz littered through her conversation when she is speaking to Muslims, and the like. Not Brahminical, no.

That's nine out of 29. 31%. the other 69% aren't Brahmins or Rajputs or Forward castes. They are mostly tribals, many Christians, four, the same as Rajput, since the CMs of Meghalaya, Nagaland and Mizoram are tribal and Christian, a Sikh and a Muslim.

I'm afraid however you twist and turn, whether you have the accurate information or somebody gathers it for you and forces you to look at it, you won't get to where you are aiming for.

But keep trying. Looking things up for you fortifies our belief in India.

 

[KRAIT]

^ Sir, I think you should make a thread with all these details. They don't understand that people from around the world visit India to visit various INDIAN sites.

@Ticker
Scion of IVC, Mathura etc, -- Same old repeated words. Come up with new one

 

[Ticker]

OK, let's count.

Jammu & Kashmir - Muslim (sorry, we had to let them do a Sunni; next time?)
Himachal Pradesh - Rajput
Punjab - Sikh
Rajasthan - Rajput
Gujarat - Shudra (yeah; THE Gujarat)
Haryana - Jat (backward caste)
UP - Yadav (backward caste)
Bihar - Kurmi (backward caste)
Jharkhand - tribal
West Bengal - BRAHMIN! (Yay, Ticker, you can breathe again!)
Sikkim - Lepcha (tribal)
Assam - Ahom (tribal)
Arunachal Pradesh - tribal
Meghalaya - tribal
Nagaland - tribal
Mizoram - tribal
Manipur - Tribal
Tripura - backward caste
Odisha - Forward caste (not clear)
Jharkhand - Tribal
Chhatisgarh - Rajput
Madhya Pradesh - Rajput
Maharashtra - Backward caste
Andhra Pradesh - forward caste
Karnataka - Shudra
Goa - Brahmin
Kerala - Christian
Tamil Nadu - Brahmin
Puducherri - backward caste


Doesn't look too good, Ticker.

No it doesn't Sir - indeed it doesn't.

Why in the name of peaceful Buddha and Harrappa's undecipherable language, do you have to hide behind your castes and creeds to seek a unified civilizational entity.

In any case, what you write dips heavily in my favour, as it explains that after the Mauriyas and some others, who were here thousands of years earlier, you couldn't retain an singular identity. So many distributeries that keeping them together needed a Maleech who created what you now call India.

And when the British left, it split. And it will still split again as many of the splintered peoples do not want to remain with the non-existant gangetic valley civilization.

Probably, it would be us again who would reunite it under one dominion.

 

[cyphercide]

IVC fantasy is the last resort of the scoundrel.

Human rights ki dal nahi pakhi toh IVC ki khichdi chada di.

Scion of IVC, Mathura etc, -- Same old repeated words. Come up with new one

New ones are for people that have something going for them, people who got squat going on for them have to contend with the good ol' days.

An update on the phenomenon for the purported 'scions';

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/05/07/us-timessquare-backlash-idUSTRE64655Y20100507

 

[Ticker]

^ Sir, I think you should make a thread with all these details. They don't understand that people from around the world visit India to visit various INDIAN sites.

@Ticker
Scion of IVC, Mathura etc, -- Same old repeated words. Come up with new one

You have a difficulty understanding the ground reality, because you guys live in a world of make belief.

I can not change the reality and bring in or invent a new one - as you people are attempting to do in order to exemplify your identity, which lies in the hills and plains and deserts of Pakistan.

Human rights ki dal nahi **** toh IVC ki khichdi chada di.

Andhay ko andheray mein bahot door ki sujhi.

Magar kya karen, usay din mein bhi andhera hi nazar aye ga na.

 

[Joe Shearer]

They still earn more and are more literate than the 'pure' Pakistani's

Not wholly the truth.

Not only do they earn well, they also rule. Those who were named by Ticker constitute 70% of the Chief Ministers of Indian states.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

well nothing is new here. Indians have good record of abusing human rights in jammu and kashmir and many western human rights organisation has pointed it out.

Indian security forces has given special powers according to armed forced act which they misuse more often.


Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA)

According to the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA), in an area that is proclaimed as "disturbed", an officer of the armed forces has powers to

Fire upon or use other kinds of force even if it causes death, against the person who is acting against law or order in the disturbed area for the maintenance of public order, after giving such due warning.

Destroy any arms dump, prepared or fortified position or shelter or training camp from which armed attacks are made by the armed volunteers or armed gangs or absconders wanted for any offence

To arrest without a warrant anyone who has committed cognizable offences or is reasonably suspected of having done so and may use force if needed for the arrest.

To enter and search any premise in order to make such arrests, or to recover any person wrongfully restrained or any arms, ammunition or explosive substances and seize it.

Stop and search any vehicle or vessel reasonably suspected to be carrying such person or weapons.

Any person arrested and taken into custody under this Act shall be made over to the officer in charge of the nearest police station with the least possible delay, together with a report of the circumstances occasioning the arrest.

Army officers have legal immunity for their actions. There can be no prosecution, suit or any other legal proceeding against anyone acting under that law. Nor is the government's judgment on why an area is found to be disturbed subject to judicial review.

Protection of persons acting in good faith under this Act from prosecution, suit or other legal proceedings, except with the sanction of the Central Government, in exercise of the powers conferred by this Act.

United Nations view

When India presented its second periodic report to the United Nations Human Rights Committee in 1991, members of the UNHRC asked numerous questions about the validity of the AFSPA. They questioned the constitutionality of the AFSPA under Indian law and asked how it could be justified in light of Article 4 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, ICCPR. On 23 March 2009, UN Commissioner for Human Rights Navanethem Pillay asked India to repeal the AFSPA. She termed the law as "dated and colonial-era law that breach contemporary international human rights standards."

On 31 March 2012, the UN asked India to revoke AFSPA saying it had the no place in Indian democracy. Christof Heyns, UN's Special Rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions said "During my visit to Kashmir, AFSPA was described to me as 'hated' and 'draconian'. It clearly violates International Law. A number of UN treaty bodies have pronounced it to be in violation of International Law as well."

Non-governmental organizations' analysis

The act has been criticized by Human Rights Watch as a "tool of state abuse, oppression and discrimination".
The South Asian Human Rights Documentation Centre argues that the governments' call for increased force is part of the problem.
"This reasoning exemplifies the vicious cycle which has been instituted in the North East due to the AFSPA. The use of the AFSPA pushes the demand for more autonomy, giving the people of the North East more reason to want to secede from a state which enacts such powers and the agitation which ensues continues to justify the use of the AFSPA from the point of view of the Indian Government." - The South Asian Human Rights Documentation Centre

A report by the Institute for Defense Studies and Analysis points to multiple occurrences of violence by security forces against civilians in Manipur since the passage of the Act.[16] The report states that residents believe that the provision for immunity of security forces urge them to act more brutally.[16] The article, however, goes on to say that repeal or withering away of the act will encourage insurgency.
[17] In addition to this, there have been claims of disappearances by the police or the army in Kashmir by several human rights organizations.[18][19]


A soldier guards the roadside checkpoint outside Srinagar International Airport in January 2009.
Many human rights organizations such as Amnesty International and the Human Rights Watch (HRW) have condemned human rights abuses in Kashmir by Indians such as "extra-judicial executions", "disappearances", and torture;[20] the "Armed Forces Special Powers Act", which "provides impunity for human rights abuses and fuels cycles of violence. The Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) grants the military wide powers of arrest, the right to shoot to kill, and to occupy or destroy property in counterinsurgency operations. Indian officials claim that troops need such powers because the army is only deployed when national security is at serious risk from armed combatants. Such circumstances, they say, call for extraordinary measures." Human rights organizations have also asked Indian government to repeal[21] the Public Safety Act, since "a detainee may be held in administrative detention for a maximum of two years without a court order.".

source : Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, 1958 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Joe Shearer]

And yet imagine, they are still better than the Pakistani's!

And, best of all, this is the bonus, they don't get killed by other Muslims.

Just count the total number of Muslims killed in India and in Pakistan. Don't you think we look after Muslims better than you look after Muslims?

Nope they aren't. How do you know, you can't even touch them, they are untouchable shoodars.



How do you know Ashoka or for that matter Chandragupt was not Aryan - they also came from outside.

Who has been telling you these weird stories? I am a Shudra myself. There hasn't been any trouble I've faced at any time in my career or in society.

 

[Ticker]

Human rights ki dal nahi pakhi toh IVC ki khichdi chada di.



New ones are for people that have something going for them, people who got squat going on for them have to contend with the good ol' days.

An update on the phenomenon for the purported 'scions';

Pakistanis pose as Indians after NY bomb scare | Reuters

You got a chair to sit on probably during last few years, before that you squatted in the fields for provision of fertilizer every morning. It'll take you a bit of time to go beyond a mere upstart that you are.

I don't read schmuck posted by schmuckers.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Nope they aren't. How do you know, you can't even touch them, they are untouchable shoodars.



How do you know Ashoka or for that matter Chandragupt was not Aryan - they also came from outside.

Umm.. You do have a major problem. They were born into the Moriya tribe or caste in Magadha. Do you know anything about the sixteen Mahajanapadas? Leave distortions of history to the Jan Sanghis here, they know just enough to produce brain farts but no more. You, on the other hand, have to imbibe a lot more to get to their stage.