12 best tanks in world

[jhungary]

Extensive combat footage shows that the M1 Abrams isn't worth squat in urban warfare thus the US military's reliance on fast moving and tough Bradley IFV's Now I know both products are entirely different all I am saying is that all American weapons have ever faced was out dated Vietnam era equipment or upgrades thereof.....my money is with the Challenger or Merkava....tried tested and extremely tough platforms where the crew has a very high possibility of survival.....as for Abrams crews.....I have seen enough crispy critters to know otherwise.......with the Americans its a whole lotta hooey and chewy and tishoo ratatatattta......its the air power man....its always been the air power....their Jammer 16 cant take down niswar swilling talibs....

Tank are not supposed to use in urban area. As I said many time here and in other Forum, if you are a tank commander and you let your driver drive in build up area, you deserved to be hanged.

The reason why you see many US tank destroy in Afghanistan and Iraq compare to other is based on 1 simple fact, US have deployed way more Tank than the others. While the Brits, the German and the French deployed no more than 2 combine Tank brigade (80-100 tanks) US alone, deployed more than 3 BCT in whole threater (each BCT consist of 2 Armor Company and 2 Combine Company)

I can tell you this, with my experience, give me a squad of 4 soldiers, I can capture any tank in the world that roam inside build up area alone, without any heavy equipment, no c4, no RPG, no ATGM.

The reason why you must not drive a tank in build up area is simple, your gun cannot traverse full 360 between building and that leave you many blind spot (Bear in mind the thru the hatch you can see 360 degree but you can only see above your turret)

Exactly the niaza round isn't as good as the new AP round for the 2a46m-5 RAPIRA gun.Niaza has penetration of around 550mm.
Plus t-90 armour is superior especially as there i no pakistani answer to relikt era or arena/shtora-2 APS.

That is what most people here claim, when armor protection (mm estimates), Sabot round penetration in mm, and range is taken into account it's clearly inferior.

Two things have rapidly changed the survivability of the tank.
The combined active protection systems that use both soft kill and hard kill modes.Soft kill is sensor based system that interferes or jams,disrupts the incoming weapon's target designator/seeker.Hardkill actually destroys the warhead either by direct impact or fragmentation.When combined along with sensors like radar warning reciever and laser warning reciever these will drastically increase survivability.

The other improvement is NERA or non explosive reactive armour.As u know the main counter to explosive reactive armour is tandem warhead that has 2 charges,the first one to explode the ERA and the next to kill the tank.But NERA doesn't explode,and thus makes tandem warheads obsolete.Most new tanks are switching to NERA.It also has the advantage of not having the problem of exploding fragments to nearby infantry.One drawback of NERA is it offers slightly less protection against KE penetrators.[the main tank to tank battle round]
But on the other side it way more lighter and unlike ERA can be placed almost anywhere in the tank.
What this means is we will see not far from now Tanks with welded composite armour that already offers superb protection,covered with ERA perhaps only in the frontal arc for tank to tank battles.NERA.aplique modular armour packages and slat armour covering the rest and an APS,plus RWR and LWR.This offers very high protection.
The advent of improved APS means the days of the RPG are numbered.The only way an RPG can go through are if they hit the tank from very close range,thus not giving the APS enough time to react.Or hits it from an elevated position say a roof on top,which will require the APS to intercept almost vertically against gravity.This makes the RPG's life very hard.
Same for ATGM.But ATGM's have a way out.The ultra new ATGMS like javelin,spike and trigat have a coded algorithm that ensures effective top attack mode.This makes it difficult for APS to intercept it due to vertical angle,but more easier than an RPG from a roof because that is simulataneously close and vertical meaning low reaction time plus vertical angle.While ATGms will be launched from a distance giving more time to react.
So yeah infantryman's life is getting harder.But i'm sure they will come up with something new.
The tank i would be in is leoa7
The mech thing won't happen,because of weight mostly.Above 70 tons is logistically unfeasible.And anything less won't be armoured enough to be a cost effective threat at that size.What we could see is automated robotic vehicles the size of ICV say BMP-T terminator without a crew,kind of like what we saw in the terminator 3 rise of the machines movie.Main problem is lack of technology advancement and enemy could jam communications with automatic vehicle.And then what?


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A bigger souped up armoured version of this is possible in some point in the future.

Armoured warfare today is very different than what we have been doing in WW2 or even Korean war. Tank literally don't kill tank anymore and what is the greatest thread any tank commander face today is air, either gunship, helos or fast air.

As I said, there are more to just compare a single entity on any tank in the world, undoubtedly I will much rather getting in a Leopard 2 than Abrams if I am going to run down a busy street. But if I am in an open ground, I would much rather getting in an Abrams.

Each situation is limited and you are operate under a set of restrain, if you start to specify a certain scenario, then you are taking point under the restrain of such scenario.

Let me tell you a story. There was an Abrams in Iraq was m-killed and beyond recovery, the platoon leader decided to destroy it so nothing get fallen into the insurgent hand. First, the LT open up the ammo locker, place some HEAT/HE Round on the floor, some grenade, 50 cal rounds and some White Phosphorus grenade, pull the pin and throw a couple inside the tank. One small bang and several loud bang later, the LT go inside the tank and assess the damage. He come back, shaking his head and said, it's not going to do it. He call another Abrams, drive it right up to the disable tank, put 2 APFSDS and a HEAT. Nothing happened.

Afterward, he called in a Apache Gunship. Fire 2 Hellfire into it, the tank is amazingly still recoverable. He has to call in fast air strike and drop a couple of snake eyes on it to make it total.......

 

[sturmgewehr99]

Austerlitz

Yeah the Mech thing indeed wont happen [as I said before I am sad about that] imagine an 8 billion dollar Gundam RX78-2 going down in flames without ever firing a single shot at the enemy......bummer huh lol and the size dude the size makes it so easy to hit and target..........as for the Fire and forget options like the Javelin and vertical shooting I don't think that's a good idea....where electronic guidance and lasers come in [forgive the illiteracy as I am not an engineer nor a very hard worker at gathering data and learning new things IMMA LAZY] electronic jamming and interference become huge issues and of course most scenarios don't offer good vantage points to shoot from I mean tanks have infantry columns in support and I don't think many buildings would stand up to the punishment of modern artillery munitions [most Iraqi high rise structures were hollow shells after American airstrikes]....anyways man have to say its real fun talking to ya as unlike most folks you don't support those so called "Da Best" lists as if they were a point of honor.......I think the technology for making that first gen terminator is here the problem is the dough....and where to dump all the tanks and the highly invested in troops and crews.....

 

[TheJewverine]

I kind of agree with the numbering except for Merkava. This tank has worst kind of record from the recent Israel-Hezbollah conflict. As per technical specs, may be, but certainly it didn't deserve to be on #4 as per its performance in the combat.

I couldn't find the name of the person who compiled the list, but I am pretty sure he is a jew.

I guess this invalidates all of the battlefield success that the Merkava has achieved?

 

[sturmgewehr99]

Jhungary

So you suggest that modern military forces simply skim over urban and built up areas like the Germans tried to do through out WW2 -_- wow that's the plan isn't it I meant lets leave the nerve center of Baghdad and run around like crazy headless chickens and conduct aerial firing with tracer rounds at night just for the fun of it....and no a tank commander ought not to be hanged for going into built up areas after the infantry has engaged in fishing operations in said urban areas as that's his job and he has to support his infantry assets and vice versa what they should do in fact is stop shitting every body and fess up that 'yeah man other people are at times better then us that they could be smarter then us'.....Urban combat is the way of tomorrow as humanity grows and develops so does the cityscape mutate and expand and soon all wars will be fought nearly exclusively in cities and built up settings.

As for attack copters.....I doubt it as western forces will never ever face off against each other their entire weapons industry is geared towards fighting so called elite Republican guards of various despotic regimes sporting out dated soviet equipment from the cold war era....and the attack copters of American and euro origin that we do have here in Pakistan and the middle east are either A. Outdated garage sale blocs. B. Severely restricted platforms whose computers simply wont allow them to engage Nato or any other alliance forces for that matter.

On to the "more tanks fielded per Nato ally argument" well that's not a good argument as frankly Americans faced RPG 7's without special attachments most of the times later in the war as Iran had ensured mid way into the conflict that Sunni insurgents aren't able to procure any special war heads and HE materials [which by the way Iran supplied to them in the first place] while British forces regularly faced off against Mehdi Militia and Hezbollah insurgents who had access to Iranian Arsenals and even fielded a few western ATGM's and had professional training from professional spec ops guys across the border and even then there wasn't a single dead Challenger tank by the end of the war.

I don't think Talibs ever killed a western tank...they have regularly shot a few Humvees into pieces but never heard of Tank level armored vehicles or even IFV's.....In fact Iraqi fighters were far deadlier and effective as compared to Talibs....even their squad level tactics were more developed and enhanced.

 

[Anony]

Check this list of 2013.

Check this list of 2013.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoB4GKR0Q0w

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

How do you think ATGM's will evolve to counter this ADS development.....if this keeps on going then the infantry man will have absolutely no chance against armored vehicles....and where do you think electronic warfare packages are going for infantry units as I am certain they need jammers to counter laser signature tracing by enemy armor....the engineers job is getting tougher by the day...wish we made giant robots and battled it with them....these new tanks would shoot a gundam down like a heap of rubble sad really....I was hoping to see mech's enter warfare before I grew old and died....

Here's what's going on to counter APS russia introduced rpg-30.
''The RPG-30 shares a close resemblance with the RPG-27 in that it is a man-portable, disposable anti-tank rocket launcher with a single shot capacity. Unlike the RPG-27 however, there is a smaller diameter precursor round in a smaller side barrel tube, in addition to the main round in the main tube. This precursor round acts as a false target, tricking the target's active protection system (APS) into engaging it, allowing the main round a clear path into the target, while the APS is struck in the 0.2-0.4 second delay it needs to start its next engagement''.
Now israel to counter RPG-30 has upgraded its TROPHY APS to TRENCH COAT APS.
In 2012, Israel Defense reported that the Rafael weapons development authority has developed a defense system, the "Trench Coat", against the RPG-30. The report noted that "Trench Coat" consists of a 360-degree radar that detects all threats and launches 17 pieces of metal, one of which should strike the incoming missile

 

[Zarvan]

I just saw the this magzine which tells about best tanks in the world a little bias but it is saying that Type 99 only costs 2.5 million dollars Man if our economy gets better and still we have problems in making better version of Al Khalid we can get this tank not much cost and I think it is far than Al Khalid @Aeronaut @nuclearpak @ANTIBODY and others Top 10 tanks in the world - China.org.cn @DESERT FIGHTER

 

[Mugwop]

Leopard 2A7 looks the best. M1A2 SEP is also good.

I guess this invalidates all of the battlefield success that the Merkava has achieved?

Why isn't merkava offered for export??

 

[jhungary]

Jhungary

So you suggest that modern military forces simply skim over urban and built up areas like the Germans tried to do through out WW2 -_- wow that's the plan isn't it I meant lets leave the nerve center of Baghdad and run around like crazy headless chickens and conduct aerial firing with tracer rounds at night just for the fun of it....and no a tank commander ought not to be hanged for going into built up areas after the infantry has engaged in fishing operations in said urban areas as that's his job and he has to support his infantry assets and vice versa what they should do in fact is stop shitting every body and fess up that 'yeah man other people are at times better then us that they could be smarter then us'.....Urban combat is the way of tomorrow as humanity grows and develops so does the cityscape mutate and expand and soon all wars will be fought nearly exclusively in cities and built up settings.

As for attack copters.....I doubt it as western forces will never ever face off against each other their entire weapons industry is geared towards fighting so called elite Republican guards of various despotic regimes sporting out dated soviet equipment from the cold war era....and the attack copters of American and euro origin that we do have here in Pakistan and the middle east are either A. Outdated garage sale blocs. B. Severely restricted platforms whose computers simply wont allow them to engage Nato or any other alliance forces for that matter.

On to the "more tanks fielded per Nato ally argument" well that's not a good argument as frankly Americans faced RPG 7's without special attachments most of the times later in the war as Iran had ensured mid way into the conflict that Sunni insurgents aren't able to procure any special war heads and HE materials [which by the way Iran supplied to them in the first place] while British forces regularly faced off against Mehdi Militia and Hezbollah insurgents who had access to Iranian Arsenals and even fielded a few western ATGM's and had professional training from professional spec ops guys across the border and even then there wasn't a single dead Challenger tank by the end of the war.

I don't think Talibs ever killed a western tank...they have regularly shot a few Humvees into pieces but never heard of Tank level armored vehicles or even IFV's.....In fact Iraqi fighters were far deadlier and effective as compared to Talibs....even their squad level tactics were more developed and enhanced.

well......Tanks has been around for ages since WW1. And almost each war they are used in different role then the others.

In Armoured School, we are taught that the main function of any Armour is to roll over the enemy and create a gap between the static defending force and their reinforcement. Then we will roll in our infantry already on board those APC and IFV and they will remain and start to fight a holding war or capture war. The main thing you use your armour is to PUNCH A HOLE in your enemy defence line. Hammer their C&C structure and either routed or Isolate the enemy. This is the traditional Armoured Warfare coming after WW2.

If you don't do that, the only way you can capture a city is by siege, kind of like the Siege of Leningrad during WW2.

So, if you have to ask me, a Bradley Commander then. NO. at no time a tank should be used to support urban warfare.

Regarding the Attack Helicopter. You are breaking ONE MAJOR RULES OF COMBAT. That is you make assumption. In Military Science. There are NO ROOM FOR YOU TO ASSUME. You cannot assume "Yeah we are only engaging with low class enemy and out-dated junk is enough" Then when a peer or near peer hit you in the head, you will probably as good as surrendering.

Basic Combat 101 : Assume NOTHING, expect EVERYTHING

Do you realise or even know why almost every time you have a large scale Armour attack, there are ALWAYS ATTACK HELICOPTER FLYING OVERHEAD??

In all, your thinking is not informed at best, I would probably call it naïve.

By the way, if what you say NATO Chopper cannot fire on NATO, then there WILL NOT BE ANY FRIENDLY FIRE INCIDENT Then can you explain to me how the Operation Desert Strom we supper 118 death from Coalition Force from friendly fire incident??

About the number of tank argument, indeed you do not face a universal battlefield but the fact remain, British at no time have more than a battalion of tank in Iraq, French have 2 company, for all you don't know, a battalion of tank is 3 around 45 tanks. while each company have 10-16. US alone deploy 2 Armoured BCT in Iraq, that's 4 Battalion per ABCT, that's 120 tanks each.

It doesn't actually matter what enemy you face, again you can give me 4 soldier and I can disable any tank (Challenger, Leclerc or Leopard) You don't literally need any explosive if you want to capture a tank, in fact RPG-7 can do nothing unless they can hit a specific spot of the tank.

By the way, Britain suffer 1 Total Lost, 1 Beyond Recovery and 1 damage during Operation in Iraq. That lead to the Defend chief of the UK says, they know their tank is not invincible and unbreachable

Defence chiefs knew 'invincible' tank armour could be breached | Mail Online

 

[CorporateAffairs]

But isn't all Chinese products said to be FAKE and USELESS?

 

[sturmgewehr99]

Leopard 2A7 looks the best. M1A2 SEP is also good.



Why isn't merkava offered for export??

Because all gentiles are enemies lololololol

But isn't all Chinese products said to be FAKE and USELESS?

Well yes and no....it depends on which product you put your finger on.

 

[sturmgewehr99]

Jhungary

Holy God you can write.....man and the grammar is just eye watering. I simply wont try to answer that ridiculous and repetitive rant what I will do though is try to hit a few points home as you seem to have a weak perception of the English language which isn't a bad thing as it isn't your language.....but first things first. Yo man no one said the Challenger is invincible there is nothing in defense matters that is fool proof or invincible or proof against Murphy's law things will go south...what we can do is try to reduce the chances of that. Secondly dude where would you find insurgent headquarters in the open desert or rice paddies [answer to your hitting the C&C argument] when there are F-22 Raptors patrolling over head no asymmetrical fanatic hangs around in open terrain where modern forces can kill him without ever showing a target. City combat is here to stay and grow, your tac ops commander needs to teach you guys that asap as it seems you are again using that very antiquated theory of WW2 Panzer units avoiding major built up areas. More over about the Attack copter thing...... dude I know okay our F-16's couldn't fire a single shot in anger against Nato forces even if Nato bombed us back to the stone age....the restrictions are so extreme and complicated on all western hardware....I know this as my uncle was one of the pilots who flew the first batch of F-16's here from the US back in the day. And he said our systems were so restricted that we simply couldn't move out of a certain coordinate other wise the computer would crash as a fail safe and the aircraft would go down.......and that's the case with all the hardware we ever got from the US...same is the case with GCC militaries and their hardware....they will only face Iranian equipment [soviet cold war era equipment most of it with a dash of America here and there]......Our Cobra's are the same where restrictions come in....so yeah you will only ever face cheap RPG derivatives that aren't a badge of honor where armor quality is concerned.....FYI America would have lost the war if it had left Infantry tactics as the sole means of winning it in Iraq. If it wasn't for the IFV's and Abrams in support of infantry Insurgents would have literally chewed them to bits....as they did in the early days of the conflict.

 

[Natan]

Why isn't merkava offered for export??

It is.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I just saw the this magzine which tells about best tanks in the world a little bias but it is saying that Type 99 only costs 2.5 million dollars Man if our economy gets better and still we have problems in making better version of Al Khalid we can get this tank not much cost and I think it is far than Al Khalid @Aeronaut @nuclearpak @ANTIBODY and others Top 10 tanks in the world - China.org.cn @DESERT FIGHTER

Don't think type-99 is for sale just yet.You seem to be obsessed about land forces,artillery and tanks in huge quantities require huge logistics.And without air cover they are sitting ducks.What pak should do with extra funds is induct some top quality aircraft.Otherwise a cbu-97 cluster bomb or a apache can wipe out a whole armour coloumn in one pass.

 

[sturmgewehr99]

Don't think type-99 is for sale just yet.You seem to be obsessed about land forces,artillery and tanks in huge quantities require huge logistics.And without air cover they are sitting ducks.What pak should do with extra funds is induct some top quality aircraft.Otherwise a cbu-97 cluster bomb or a apache can wipe out a whole armour coloumn in one pass.

Yeah our high command has been worried about that one......the Air force has suggested that the army buy up some stable, tough and cheap aircraft platform to support armor and infantry in the field as that is a major cause of tension between the air force and the army in times of conflict. In my opinion about 35 aircraft in this regard would be sufficient perhaps a few upgraded A-4 Sky hawks maybe.