What's new

12 best tanks in world

I just saw the this magzine which tells about best tanks in the world a little bias but it is saying that Type 99 only costs 2.5 million dollars Man if our economy gets better and still we have problems in making better version of Al Khalid we can get this tank not much cost and I think it is far than Al Khalid @Aeronaut @nuclearpak @ANTIBODY and others Top 10 tanks in the world - China.org.cn @DESERT FIGHTER




Is it 2013 price??? in 2 million you can'r get old engines.. :P Revisit the price once more, no modern tank will cost that cheap, unless it is really cheap.. :P
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
Jhungary

Holy God you can write.....man and the grammar is just eye watering. I simply wont try to answer that ridiculous and repetitive rant what I will do though is try to hit a few points home as you seem to have a weak perception of the English language which isn't a bad thing as it isn't your language.....but first things first. Yo man no one said the Challenger is invincible there is nothing in defense matters that is fool proof or invincible or proof against Murphy's law things will go south...what we can do is try to reduce the chances of that. Secondly dude where would you find insurgent headquarters in the open desert or rice paddies [answer to your hitting the C&C argument] when there are F-22 Raptors patrolling over head no asymmetrical fanatic hangs around in open terrain where modern forces can kill him without ever showing a target. City combat is here to stay and grow, your tac ops commander needs to teach you guys that asap as it seems you are again using that very antiquated theory of WW2 Panzer units avoiding major built up areas. More over about the Attack copter thing...... dude I know okay our F-16's couldn't fire a single shot in anger against Nato forces even if Nato bombed us back to the stone age....the restrictions are so extreme and complicated on all western hardware....I know this as my uncle was one of the pilots who flew the first batch of F-16's here from the US back in the day. And he said our systems were so restricted that we simply couldn't move out of a certain coordinate other wise the computer would crash as a fail safe and the aircraft would go down.......and that's the case with all the hardware we ever got from the US...same is the case with GCC militaries and their hardware....they will only face Iranian equipment [soviet cold war era equipment most of it with a dash of America here and there]......Our Cobra's are the same where restrictions come in....so yeah you will only ever face cheap RPG derivatives that aren't a badge of honor where armor quality is concerned.....FYI America would have lost the war if it had left Infantry tactics as the sole means of winning it in Iraq. If it wasn't for the IFV's and Abrams in support of infantry Insurgents would have literally chewed them to bits....as they did in the early days of the conflict.

So what kind of sentence structure and grammar leads to 1 GIANT paragraph for multiple points??

I don't EVER check my grammar, I don't ever use word or any program before I post, I always have typo in my post, does that constitute as a crime to you?? I have job to do in the morning and at the afternoon, the only time I can reply to post here is almost always dead in the evening or sometime way past midnight. So, what does it have to do with any of my point??

You are one funny bunny, at one hand, you attack my grammar, on the other hand, your own writing is crap.........

Point 1.) I never said you say Challenger is invincible. I am saying all tank have a EQUAL game if you want to fight in Urban or Build up environment.

Point 2.) THERE ARE ALWAYS C&C IN BATTLE. or are you're suggesting any army or armed organisation or ANY NATION just send their troop anywhere in the field willy-lilly. C&C may not be a structure or a "Headquarter" or anything, C&C can be 2 dude with a radio.

Point 3.) I never say urban warfare is obsolete , I am saying you NEVER USE TANK TO FIGHT in City. Big Different dude.

And I have problem comprehending the rest of your point. Unless you untangle it somehow, I don't think I understand what the heck are you talking about.
 
.
Tanks like polish T-72M.. ZTZ99 series... Al Khalid etc are crap and as good as tin cans in modern day conflict against an advanced enemy... The reason why I did not count T-90 is because its latest version has the pedigree to come upto mark.

If we consider Arjun against these tanks it would always be a notch above either of them... not saying it is anywhere near even the modernized Leo2A4s.
 
.
Tanks like polish T-72M.. ZTZ99 series... Al Khalid etc are crap and as good as tin cans in modern day conflict against an advanced enemy... The reason why I did not count T-90 is because its latest version has the pedigree to come upto mark.

If we consider Arjun against these tanks it would always be a notch above either of them... not saying it is anywhere near even the modernized Leo2A4s.

State specific reasons behind your assertions,without vague statements.Type-99,t-90,t-84 or al khalid can't be said crap under any circumstances.The one weakness of these tanks is carousel autoloader.

Yeah our high command has been worried about that one......the Air force has suggested that the army buy up some stable, tough and cheap aircraft platform to support armor and infantry in the field as that is a major cause of tension between the air force and the army in times of conflict. In my opinion about 35 aircraft in this regard would be sufficient perhaps a few upgraded A-4 Sky hawks maybe.

I think time of specialized CAS aircraft is gone due to too advanced AAA and SAM systems.Better to get some solid anti armour gunships instead of that.
 
.
State specific reasons behind your assertions,without vague statements.Type-99,t-90,t-84 or al khalid can't be said crap under any circumstances.The one weakness of these tanks is carousel autoloader.

There are many reasons behind that... contrary to your claim... the autoloader is their only plus point.. somewhat.

T-84 was an experimental tank... please dont talk about experiments here.

Only circumstance suited to these tanks is WWII era blitzkrieg form of forward armor advance... which is hardly the case in modern warfare.
 
.
I was talking about t-84 OPLOT.Ukrainian tank.
Pakistani t-80ud has same turret as t-84,thats why i named it.
 
.
So what kind of sentence structure and grammar leads to 1 GIANT paragraph for multiple points??

I don't EVER check my grammar, I don't ever use word or any program before I post, I always have typo in my post, does that constitute as a crime to you?? I have job to do in the morning and at the afternoon, the only time I can reply to post here is almost always dead in the evening or sometime way past midnight. So, what does it have to do with any of my point??

You are one funny bunny, at one hand, you attack my grammar, on the other hand, your own writing is crap.........

Point 1.) I never said you say Challenger is invincible. I am saying all tank have a EQUAL game if you want to fight in Urban or Build up environment.

Point 2.) THERE ARE ALWAYS C&C IN BATTLE. or are you're suggesting any army or armed organisation or ANY NATION just send their troop anywhere in the field willy-lilly. C&C may not be a structure or a "Headquarter" or anything, C&C can be 2 dude with a radio.

Point 3.) I never say urban warfare is obsolete , I am saying you NEVER USE TANK TO FIGHT in City. Big Different dude.

And I have problem comprehending the rest of your point. Unless you untangle it somehow, I don't think I understand what the heck are you talking about.

Summary of what you said good sir or madam.....

Quote summarized: I HAVE A LIFE DONT JUDGE ME grumble grumble grumble...

Its not my language neither but I still don't use word or any other typo correction options. And about the "Crap" comment, so you ran out of words and banged the keyboard with the first words that came to mind wow that's very civil isn't it.

and yes two dudes with radios will and do hide in urban combat zones ONLY as that way you melt away from reality and just fade into the population and that one just proved my point bub.

All tanks are not EQUAL game whether in urban warfare or open terrain combat....again don't your tac ops officers make you watch camera data and stuff???

The word is willy nilly and no again your point of the "two dudes with a radio" pretty much answers that assertion asymmetrical warfare is an entirely different game with entirely different dimensions and urban warfare is the most intrinsic and inalienable part of it as all present combat zones are in urban areas except Afghanistan as its miserable terrain isn't worth the price of armor [Including the Swat valley here in Pakistan as our soldiers learned the hard way]

As for point three......so uh Bashar Ul Asad and Hezbollah are idiots for using T-72 variants to combat numerically superior rebel units in major Syrian cities -_- wow I mean that's the difference between people above the rank of Colonel and those below it.

As for your failure to understand the restriction thing....ask your mechanics...the ones who maintain your targeting systems and computers....I am starting to doubt your even a soldier I mean this is fairly standard stuff.
 
.
There are many reasons behind that... contrary to your claim... the autoloader is their only plus point.. somewhat.

T-84 was an experimental tank... please dont talk about experiments here.

Only circumstance suited to these tanks is WWII era blitzkrieg form of forward armor advance... which is hardly the case in modern warfare.

Our army is basically geared to combat Indian forces and both our border areas have a lot of plains except for Kashmir of course and that does give rise to possibilities of blitzkrieg that's also the main reason the G3 rifle has survived up to this point.......though I am adamant the next war between India and Pakistan [god forbid] will result in nukes in the very first instance of hostilities.......China too has great plains and flat areas and first blood will be drawn on these plains before combat moves to a more urbanized setting.....

And preemptively to nay sayers: No Nato and the US will still not face open combat due to their superior air forces and smart artillery.......
 
.
I think time of specialized CAS aircraft is gone due to too advanced AAA and SAM systems.Better to get some solid anti armour gunships instead of that.

They were analyzing a Chinese attack copter option a while back and they also liked the euro copter tiger...but the latter was too expensive and prone to cancelation without refund so they are again viewing the Chinese Z10 with a lot of inactive interest.....I wager that said interested staring contest will last another half decade.
 
.
Our army is basically geared to combat Indian forces and both our border areas have a lot of plains except for Kashmir of course and that does give rise to possibilities of blitzkrieg that's also the main reason the G3 rifle has survived up to this point.......though I am adamant the next war between India and Pakistan [god forbid] will result in nukes in the very first instance of hostilities.......China too has great plains and flat areas and first blood will be drawn on these plains before combat moves to a more urbanized setting.....

And preemptively to nay sayers: No Nato and the US will still not face open combat due to their superior air forces and smart artillery.......

I think you missed the point here.... due to advanced artillery, guided ones... ATGMs... AT Helo gunships... mechanized Infantry..aswell as reccon... and early warning the blitzkrieg is not possible..

Hence the movement can be restricted to an average of 80-30km a day depending on different areas... means most of the day tank is stationary.. and here comes the biggest draw back...T-72B/M1, T-80U/UD, T-90A/S/C,.ZTZ-99A/G/A2G, MBT2000/3000, Al Khalid.. etc.. have to keep their engine running(so that electronics keep working) giving away their positions to reccon..drones and become a magnet of sorts for 3rd gen ATGM with IR/IIR seeker.... also wasting a lot of fuel overstressing logistics supply... and economy.

The solution to this is as simple as it gets... the APU generator... which can be seen on tanks such as Arjun/T-90MS/Leo2A5/6/M1A2/Challenger2/K1A1 etc...

Then there is long rod ammo... which can take out enemy in a single shot at long distances such as 2-3km... neither of the Soviet legacy tanks or Chinese and even Indian tanks have it... only Europeans and US have been able to develop such KE rounds.

Then there comes ability to survive multiple hits... in this case Chinese ZTZ99 model and Al Khalid show rather poor performance... soviet tanks such as T-90 due to its superior turret design is a stand out here even against the best in the world.

Then there is Gun CEP... accuracy... type of CLATGM used... ability to modular upgrade... sensors... computers .. data link.. etc. etc.. almost 3-4 pages would be required to give a summarized view.

I wont venture into what China has or Pakistan has or would have or could/would do... What I am trying to emphasise is that Chinese/Soviet tanks are little/no good in defense.. for offence/attack they would serve the puropse better... however still far from what a western MBT would do.
 
.
Summary of what you said good sir or madam.....

Quote summarized: I HAVE A LIFE DONT JUDGE ME grumble grumble grumble...

Its not my language neither but I still don't use word or any other typo correction options. And about the "Crap" comment, so you ran out of words and banged the keyboard with the first words that came to mind wow that's very civil isn't it.

and yes two dudes with radios will and do hide in urban combat zones ONLY as that way you melt away from reality and just fade into the population and that one just proved my point bub.

All tanks are not EQUAL game whether in urban warfare or open terrain combat....again don't your tac ops officers make you watch camera data and stuff???

The word is willy nilly and no again your point of the "two dudes with a radio" pretty much answers that assertion asymmetrical warfare is an entirely different game with entirely different dimensions and urban warfare is the most intrinsic and inalienable part of it as all present combat zones are in urban areas except Afghanistan as its miserable terrain isn't worth the price of armor [Including the Swat valley here in Pakistan as our soldiers learned the hard way]

As for point three......so uh Bashar Ul Asad and Hezbollah are idiots for using T-72 variants to combat numerically superior rebel units in major Syrian cities -_- wow I mean that's the difference between people above the rank of Colonel and those below it.

As for your failure to understand the restriction thing....ask your mechanics...the ones who maintain your targeting systems and computers....I am starting to doubt your even a soldier I mean this is fairly standard stuff.

I just want to ask you one question. Have you ever been to combat inside any armoured vehicle?? Better yet, have YOU EVER BEEN ON AN ARMOURED VEHICLE.

Point 1.) All tank are not fair game, that part is true, but only when they are out in the open. I said, all tanks are fair game WHEN YOU DRIVE YOURSELVES IN A URBAN STREET. Do you even know why?? DO you know you can only see a bit over the the Driver hatch or the commander hatch have a 360 degree view OVER the turret. If you want to see more you would need to exit the hatch, which present yourselves as a legitimate target for any Jack and Joe with a hunting rifle.

Tactical Officer teach you NOT TO DRIVE A TANK IN URBAN AREA without Infantry overwatch.

Do you even know how many blind spot there are in tank that you cannot see out until you half exit off the hatch?? There's a lot, again, give me 4 men and I can capture any tank in this godly world in a urban setting, I am not joking.

Point 2.) 2 guys with a radio is very EASY to seek out of with Infrared or Thermal Imaging, tell me one combat vehicle, land or air does not loaded with Thermal Imaging? So attack like this is very easy to make out.


You do realise we are in 21 century, not 20th century anymore, this kind of op is very easy to conduct.

How I melt away from reality, seems like you are the one melt away from reality.

Point 3.)

The word is willy nilly and no again your point of the "two dudes with a radio" pretty much answers that assertion asymmetrical warfare is an entirely different game with entirely different dimensions and urban warfare is the most intrinsic and inalienable part of it as all present combat zones are in urban areas except Afghanistan as its miserable terrain isn't worth the price of armor [Including the Swat valley here in Pakistan as our soldiers learned the hard way

So you turn into grammar nazi to avoid my point eh??

I am not talking about asymmetrical warfare, I am talking about using a tank in Urban combat. Big different. If you want to open a thread and go on for asymmetrical warfare, I will be there.

By the way, this is the third time saying it, I AM NOT SAYING ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE IS GOING TO BE FADE AWAY, OR NOT HERE TO STAY. You have completely andUTTERLYmissing the point here.

Point 4.) Dude, I do not know what is in the mind of Bashar Ul Asad or Hezbollah, They are not taught as the way I was taught. Unless one day they are inline with US Military Doctrine, I cannot speak for either Hezbollah or Ul Asad.

Dude, if you say they use tank in urban environment, and we should too, then think about this. They use Suicide bomber in the street of Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria, does that mean we should too?? Different country, or regime have a different way of fighting, I am surprise that you do not understand this fundamental concept. You concept is not logical at best, or Forced.

Point 5. Seems to me, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE RESTRICTION. You are thinking Tank is invincible, correction, non US Tank are invincible. Which I have proved you wrong. You have NO IDEA how armour system work. You have no idea how armoured warfare are fought, you have no idea what can you see from inside an Armour, and then you come lecture me. I don't really care if I was a soldier or what not, I did not ask for this professional title, somebody in this forum with authority think I am, you can doubt all you want.

Just answer me this, do you think Tank should be use in Urban warfare, Alone??
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
Jhungary

So you think everyone but you is an idiot.......yes I have been on armored vehicles.....I have had limited declassified access only as I am a lawyer not a soldier and yes I know Infantry support is vital and vice versa where have I contradicted that again your comprehension of the language is extremely weak and you miss quote a lot and no I am not a grammar Nazi but since you tried to match my awesome sarcasm :) I had to hit that point home.......tanks are not invincible.....I know that and nowhere have I contradicted that.....

The crux of my argument.

The M1 Abrams is not the best tank in the world and what you geared your posts towards was 'No It be okay Tank it perform excellent' which it did not......period and the Americans realize that but you stuck to your point. I do have fundamental concepts of combat in general just not as restricted as from a command copula thus my remark "that's the difference between a colonel and lower ranks" I can see the bigger un adulterated picture without bias or favor.

By the way my country kicked this purchase option due to its inherent design and cost effectiveness failures....its a great tank.....but only when you have unlimited resources.

And no I am not telling you to change your unit tactics....again weak comprehension of the Queens English.....I reiterate bub a successful western Army will not face open opposition and know that Infrared and other spectrum scans have led to the political debacle called Wikileaks and the killing of roughly an average of 20 innocents for that one radio wielding two bit insurgent commander....the results are concluded on the basis of analysis from specialists at Centcom who being human make mistakes.

As for Point 5.........again please do you have no concept of electronic restriction......seriously......seriously na you are pulling my leg aren't you.....

Western arms exporters upon request of Nato govts. restrict electronic equipment [radios, range finder , computer , laser emitters etc etc] so that they cannot achieve certain protocols....that includes failure to engage Nato forces....they can and will use all such "Built in" restrictions to implement damage control thus your needless worry of being attacked....don't worry Fritz wont attack anymore he is gay now lolololololol...he will try to buy you though lols...Kudos Angela Merkel......and no tanks will fight in open environments but not just near your neighborhood and they wont be much use in South Asia as any serious invasion by India or vice versa will have nuclear consequences.....the M1's speed and range might never ever be tested against real opponents...


About the Melt away snide comment......you ever seen intel folks?......I have....and they breed special units to track down said molten people....and they rarely succeed....and that's exactly the reason why civilian contractors with lesser liabilities and more how shall we say free reign are brought into the picture......people melt away and Eric finds them or at least tries his best.
 
.
I think you missed the point here.... due to advanced artillery, guided ones... ATGMs... AT Helo gunships... mechanized Infantry..aswell as reccon... and early warning the blitzkrieg is not possible..

Hence the movement can be restricted to an average of 80-30km a day depending on different areas... means most of the day tank is stationary.. and here comes the biggest draw back...T-72B/M1, T-80U/UD, T-90A/S/C,.ZTZ-99A/G/A2G, MBT2000/3000, Al Khalid.. etc.. have to keep their engine running(so that electronics keep working) giving away their positions to reccon..drones and become a magnet of sorts for 3rd gen ATGM with IR/IIR seeker.... also wasting a lot of fuel overstressing logistics supply... and economy.

The solution to this is as simple as it gets... the APU generator... which can be seen on tanks such as Arjun/T-90MS/Leo2A5/6/M1A2/Challenger2/K1A1 etc...

Then there is long rod ammo... which can take out enemy in a single shot at long distances such as 2-3km... neither of the Soviet legacy tanks or Chinese and even Indian tanks have it... only Europeans and US have been able to develop such KE rounds.

Then there comes ability to survive multiple hits... in this case Chinese ZTZ99 model and Al Khalid show rather poor performance... soviet tanks such as T-90 due to its superior turret design is a stand out here even against the best in the world.

Then there is Gun CEP... accuracy... type of CLATGM used... ability to modular upgrade... sensors... computers .. data link.. etc. etc.. almost 3-4 pages would be required to give a summarized view.

I wont venture into what China has or Pakistan has or would have or could/would do... What I am trying to emphasise is that Chinese/Soviet tanks are little/no good in defense.. for offence/attack they would serve the puropse better... however still far from what a western MBT would do.

Sir I agree and that is about the exact same stuff I told a colonel about a year ago....and he was smiling quite fondly at me with a look of hahaha what a nice young lad thinks he knows what the army is all about hawhawhawhaw and it ended right there and then.....they have staked all their chips on the N solution......the primary reason for this mind set is inefficiency , lack of creative thinking and stifling thereof , a failure to appreciate the importance of advanced logistics and advanced specialist training , a lack of quality education both at the matriculation and college level etc etc. A most cumbersome issue is lack of cash and manufacturing industry.......unlike India our govt. bodies ensure that manufacturing industries apart from textile cant grow.....as you know the profit margins are extremely small and risks are huge....and in absence of govt. subsidies and facilitation its impossible to culture such growth....it took India a century to get where it is today.....from the Raj to Azadi......and will take longer then that for Pakistan to get there by which time you would be actively competing with a dilapidated and rotting Russian and east European arms industry which is a huge achievement as they are the only manufacturers who are actually competing with the US in every sphere of defense tech....
 
.
they have staked all their chips on the N solution......

Which is the sad part... a good soldier doesn't rest away banking on his last weapon.. he keeps polishing all his tools each ready to score their best shot... so that the last weapon is never used.
 
.
Which is the sad part... a good soldier doesn't rest away banking on his last weapon.. he keeps polishing all his tools each ready to score their best shot... so that the last weapon is never used.

Indeed indeed......I hope that this scenario never develops.
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom