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  1. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    There's nothing new about this - people have been putting material gains above principle since the beginning of time. That's actually a major source of Pakistan's, and the World's troubles. People putting material gains above principle. Unity-faith-discipline went out the window the moment an...
  2. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    Blaming something for not working is useless when you haven't attempted to follow it properly. Tell me, are all Pakistani laws followed and enforced properly? Are religious ethics actually being implemented in Pakistan? If the answer to that is no, that means 'dumping' the ideology won't change...
  3. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    Well now that we're extending the meaning of 'Western' well beyond its geographical constraints, let's just declare the entirety of planet Earth 'Western' and call it a day. No. But not because it is not secular enough. I could fill several books with all the reasons as to why Pakistan is not...
  4. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    This is disproved by the fact that development came to the West before Secularism did. Therefore, a country can be developed without being secular. Like the West was, for a short period of time.
  5. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    Why? We've already agreed that development can come without secularism. Why, then, should we abandon our religion? This is where I disagree strongly with you. This is what I mean when I say blindly copying the West. To abandon religion would be to admit that it is false and flawed. I refuse...
  6. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    By inherited system, I was referring to the governance and legal system. Why do you think the majority never adopted the colonial system? Because it had no basis in Pakistan's ground realities and was not made to benefit Pakistanis. We need reform that system to something more suited to Pakistan...
  7. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    Communism is the antithesis to what is considered Western. The West never accepted Communism - the East did. Therefore, calling it "decidedly Western" simply because Marx was German is misleading and ignores all the contributions to this ideology made by Lenin and Trotsky, who were Russian and...
  8. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    China borrowed elements of modern Western thought and incorporated it into its own unique system which is inspired by Mao and Marx. What you are calling Westernisation is actually simply development. They are not just copying Western culture, and they do not have an inherited colonial system...
  9. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    True. My only objection is to those who believe that simply emulating the West leads to success. I mean, China's political and economic system in itself is a unique hybrid of Communism and Capitalism, which are supposed to be fundamentally opposed - yet China has managed to incorporate elements...
  10. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    That is literally, precisely what my point was. That's all I've been saying. Accepting same-sex marriage will not lead to development. You were the one placing the cart before the horse by claiming that Pakistan will only become developed once its people accept Western culture and liberalism...
  11. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    I would be happier if Pakistan developed its own system without being pressured by the West to develop in a way that is favourable to them. They are already failing in many ways. They just have too much political influence to allow that to become obvious. They became successful through...
  12. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    What's your opinion on the influence of Western culture on China? I am quite interested as to whether Conservatives in China are similar to Pakistanis in terms of skepticism of the West etc. Do you think legalizing things like same-sex marriage is essential to becoming a developed country?
  13. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    I would argue that this is not the 'natural' or inevitable course of things. The West has exerted significant power throughout the world through colonialism, which is how the foundation of Westernisation was set. It of course continues to exert influence to bring nations towards its system and...
  14. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    Still, I hope the next few generations do something other than just copying what they see in today's developed countries. Ideologies and countries rise and fall. Just because they are successful today doesn't mean they'll be successful forever, or that their system can't be improved upon.
  15. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    If that Picture represents all of Chinese culture, this picture represents all of Pakistani culture: Better tag some Chinese members if we want to discuss their culture rather than just using google images. @Chinese-Dragon
  16. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    The West was the first to develop because they were the first to industrialize, long before they became secular. That is the point I'm making. Liberalism came AFTER development, not the other way around. Yes, they are indeed being Westernised. Modern Japanese culture, for example, looks nothing...
  17. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    Any kind of dogma is dangerous. Tell me, what religion caused the countless deaths in WW1, WW2, and The Cold War? There was definitely dogma. But that was secular dogma. Replacing religious dogma with some different kind of dogma won't change anything. The Soviet Union is a good example -...
  18. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    True, but we have equivalent forms of music and entertainment. It actually just depends on whether you consider this a 'concert' or not: I mean, people are sitting down and enjoying music, instead of dancing to it. Is that a criteria for calling something a concert? I don't know. Besides...
  19. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    Nope. The Pakistani Elite emulating the West has nothing to do with countries becoming developed. In fact, the wealth gap is a negative thing. If you really want to be correct about the use of 'first world', 'first world' is any country that was on the US's side in the Cold War. Second World...
  20. TankMan

    When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

    Is having girls and boys' sections separate that bad of a thing? Our culture calls for that, whether you like it or not. If that is to change, it will change gradually as the newer generation rises. Besides, I have personally been to concerts in Lahore where the girls and boys were free to mix...
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