When will Pakistan become a 1st world country?

[TankMan]

Human being aspire and look upto success not failure. Would you be happier if the well off in Pakistan copied Somalis or Chadians?

I would be happier if Pakistan developed its own system without being pressured by the West to develop in a way that is favourable to them.

When they start failing they will lose their appeal. Whatever is the 'in' then will become popular. That is how the world is.

They are already failing in many ways. They just have too much political influence to allow that to become obvious. They became successful through exploiting half the world - it takes a while for resources looted over centuries to run out.

 

[Azadkashmir]

HAVE THE ABILITY TO PRINT YOUR OWN CURRENCY AND FUND YOUR OWN PROJECTS that is your freedom/soverignty throw out rothshcild imf and central banks. bring in electricity generation and bring in factories and steel mill. fund education and train citizens up to help develop the country. Most people only care about house , food, education, healhtcare, uncorrupt law and order service, jobs. i cant accept lgbt etc they spread disease give them another ten to twenty yrs they will say it ok to molest kids then it be we want satan church. look at america today(ok the elite were promoting it through their agents but most stupid public dont know that).

i say credit cards/usury should be banned along with cheques. Mint gold and silver currency.
Trade with other countries should be barter trade, goods for goods.

terroism it will be reduced internally and externally due to lack of easily wiring funds.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

same-sex marriage is essential to becoming a developed country?

Again your placing the cart before the horse. These come as a consequence of a consummated developed country. They are not the precursor to development but rather successor to development.

HAVE THE ABILITY TO PRINT YOUR OWN CURRENCY AND FUND YOUR OWN PROJECTS that is your freedom/soverignty throw out rothshcild imf and central banks. bring in electricity generation and bring in factories and steel mill. fund education and train citizens up to help develop the country. Most people only care about house , food, education, healhtcare, uncorrupt law and order service, jobs. i cant accept lgbt etc they spread disease give them another ten to twenty yrs they will say it ok to molest kids then it be we want satan church. look at america today(ok the elite were promoting it through their agents but most stupid public dont know that).

i say credit cards/usury should be banned along with cheques. Mint gold and silver currency.
Trade with other countries should be barter trade, goods for goods.

terroism it will be reduced internally and externally due to lack of easily wiring funds.

lol. Pakistani Trump?

 

[problemfreeleader]

WHEN PAKISTANI PUBLIC ESTABLISHMENT KILL ALL CORRUPT PEOPLE IN OFFICES SPECIALLY POLITICIANS AND ALL DEPARTMENTS WORK FAIRLY RECOVER ZARDARI NAWAZ ALL THEY LOOTED INCLUDING DIESEL ASFANDIAR ALTAF ETC STOP BEGGING FROM WEST SO PAKISTAN CAN BECOME FIRST WORLD COUNTRY,

 

[Azadkashmir]

Again your placing the cart before the horse. These come as a consequence of a consummated developed country. They are not the precursor to development but rather successor to development.


lol. Pakistani Trump?

being gay is not healthy. putting things up each others asses is not good practice, then we have std epidemic.

 

[TankMan]

Again your placing the cart before the horse. These come as a consequence of a consummated developed country. They are not the precursor to development but rather successor to development.

That is literally, precisely what my point was. That's all I've been saying. Accepting same-sex marriage will not lead to development. You were the one placing the cart before the horse by claiming that Pakistan will only become developed once its people accept Western culture and liberalism.

You insisted that Turkey is not yet 'first world' because it isn't fully liberal yet - which strongly implies that liberalism is the precursor to development.

Regardless, now that we agree Industrialisation and development came first and liberalism came later, maybe we can agree that a country can be developed without being liberal and abandoning religion, because it definitely is possible.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

being gay is not healthy. putting things up each others asses is not good practice, then we have std epidemic.

Traditional Greek and Roman practice , ancient SODOM and GOMORRA

 

[Azadkashmir]

Traditional Greek and Roman practice , ancient SODOM and GOMORRA

leaky asses

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

What's your opinion on the influence of Western culture on China? I am quite interested as to whether Conservatives in China are similar to Pakistanis in terms of skepticism of the West etc. Do you think legalizing things like same-sex marriage is essential to becoming a developed country?

Yes, I agree. Terms like 'Western' or '1st world' are pass their sell by date in the context of what we are discussing - socio-economic changes brought about by developing economies. My point is simple. economic development engenders certain characteristics. That is any people who move along the path of development will end up sharing similar features. That is being deveopled produces certain feartures in societies. Religion becomes secondary. Spiritual thinking or religios myths are replaced by hard logic and the focus shifts to economic improvement rather than salving souls. This applies to China as much as to UK. Chinese today display more features with Britain then they do with Pakistan. emphasis on economics, the temporal rather than religious. Move with the times, not be incumbered with the past but instead looking to the future. Believing in and having total confidence in thinking that change is in our hands rather than prayers or some transient super entity.

The belief that destiny lies in our hands. That we can make the future.

I actually agree with both of you.

China is a relatively more conservative society, compared to the West. But there is no doubt that there is an undercurrent of Westernization, especially in the more developed areas such as Shanghai/Beijing/HK.

I would say the trend is similar to that of Japan, and Pakistan itself. With economic development and globalization comes a great deal of "Westernization", that is certainly true. However I also think these places develop a character of their own, that the Westerners see as very "alien" to themselves.

In the end it becomes sort of a hybrid. All countries will have to find their own path, and in today's world that path will most likely be a unique mixture of traditional domestic and globalized culture.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

being gay is not healthy. putting things up each others asses is not good practice, then we have std epidemic.

Yeh, I agree but being irretrievably dumb is not healthy either - you pollute the human genepool with your substandard ingrated genes, thereby arguably doing more damage then the faggot who only hurts himself and the guy he plugs.

On the subject of Westernization, The Chinese Communist Party has done a spectatcular job of westernizing China - or laying the foundation of progress that many people wrongly accord as 'Westernization'. Qualities that help progess although first applied in the West are not copyrights of the West and therefore are wrongly called 'Western'.

Take CCP and China. It brought about sea change in China. It was inspired by a decidedly Western political thought called communism which was furnaced in London by a German writer. It subsequently was applied in Russia and then spread to China.

The principles of communism had been structured from the Western historical experiance with the early industrilization age with it's mills and huge numbers of poor workers living in slum conditions. Religion was frowned and blamed as a tool of control by the elite working in hand with the bourgoise to keep the poor workers servile. The CCP in China restructured China along a Western political philosophy. The end product was modern China which does everything the West does only it does it even better, even faster, even harder. The results can be seen in China today.

In a sense China is reteaching the West how to be 'the West'. !!!

 

[Mamluk]

My point is that why must we be so close minded as to limit ourselves to what the West has? Is that really our highest ideal? Can we not imagine a system better than that, a system that is consistent with our cultural and religious beliefs?

Good point. Culture and certain values must be preserved going forward.

A culture is a way of enjoying life.
Let's say a Sri Lankan curry dish tastes better than a particular bland Latvian food item.
Should Sri Lankans start replacing it with the Latvian stuff because Latvians are rich and developed?
They say a blind man does not know the colors of rainbow. A Latvian guy has probably never thought of food as a form of entertainment, or has tasted fewer varieties of flavor than a Lankan guy growing up. So in this hypothetical scenario, preserving their cuisine allows Lankans to enjoy life more, from a foodie perspective --- something outsiders (including Lankans who grew up abroad) may never understand.

The Lankan who prefers the overall Latvian culture can always move there, but abandoning your own at home is an irreversible damage.

----------
The entire world does not have to move towards a single universal monoculture culture (it helps get along with everyone for sure), because as I said the loss of information about all "the other ways you could enjoy life" is irreversible.
I'm sure we can purge the elements from our culture that hold us back and develop while holding on to our values and way of life.

 

[TankMan]

I actually agree with both of you.

China is a relatively more conservative society, compared to the West. But there is no doubt that there is an undercurrent of Westernization, especially in the more developed areas such as Shanghai/Beijing/HK.

I would say the trend is similar to that of Japan, and Pakistan itself. With economic development and globalization comes a great deal of "Westernization", that is certainly true. However I also think these places develop a character of their own, that the Westerners see as very "alien" to themselves.

In the end it becomes sort of a hybrid. All countries will have to find their own path, and in today's world that path will most likely be a unique mixture of traditional domestic and globalized culture.

True.
My only objection is to those who believe that simply emulating the West leads to success. I mean, China's political and economic system in itself is a unique hybrid of Communism and Capitalism, which are supposed to be fundamentally opposed - yet China has managed to incorporate elements of both into a unique system that is well suited to China, which is why it is so successful.

I doubt China would've had the same success if it just inherited a colonial system and added a superficial layer of 'democracy' onto it, the way Pakistan unfortunately has.

 

[Azadkashmir]

Yeh, I agree but being irretrievably dumb is not healthy either - you pollute the human genepool with your substandard ingrated genes, thereby arguably doing more damage then the faggot who only hurts himself and the guy he plugs.

On the subject of Westernmization, The Chinese Communist Party has dome a spectatcular job of westernizing China - or laying the foundation of progress that many people wrongly accord as 'Westernization'. Qualities that help progess although first applied in the West are not copyrights of the West and therefore are wrongly called 'Western'.

Take CCP and China. It brought about sea change in China. It was inspired by a decidedly Western political thought called communism which was furnaced in London by a German writer. It subsequently was applied in Russia and then spread to China.

the principles of communism had been structured from the Western historical experiance with the early industrilization age with it's mills and huge numbers of poor workers living in slum conditions. Religion was frownded as blamded as a tool of control by the elite working in hand with the bourgoise. Therefore CCP in China restructured China along a Western political philosophy. The end product was modern China which does everything the West does only it does it even better, even faster, even harder. The results can be seen in China today.

In a sense China is reteaching the West how to be 'the West'. !!!

god sake if you talking about industrialization then read major jordan diary. bolshaveiks (mainly jewish) had imported over thousands of machines from usa, usa has kept this secret from public.
Without western usa machines/tools/blueprints/factories/training/ etc there be no soviet super power. this also applies to china.

being gay ganndo does not mean you develop to be first world instead developed std in the ***.

 

[TankMan]

On the subject of Westernization, The Chinese Communist Party has done a spectatcular job of westernizing China - or laying the foundation of progress that many people wrongly accord as 'Westernization'. Qualities that help progess although first applied in the West are not copyrights of the West and therefore are wrongly called 'Western'.

China borrowed elements of modern Western thought and incorporated it into its own unique system which is inspired by Mao and Marx.

What you are calling Westernisation is actually simply development. They are not just copying Western culture, and they do not have an inherited colonial system with labels of democracy stapled onto it.

They are in fact defying the West by refusing to do so - why do you think China is still portrayed like some evil totalitarian dystopia in Western media?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I doubt China would've had the same success if it just inherited a colonial system and added a superficial layer of 'democracy' onto it, the way Pakistan unfortunately has.

The differance between China and Pakistan was the only a small elite in Pakistan inheritated from the colonial period followed what you call Westernized but the rest of 99% kept living and thinking like they had done for centuries which is what Pakistan is today. A small westernized elite but a mass of tradition.

In China the CCP westernmized all of Chinese society by applying a communist thought and tearing the guts out of traditional Chinese order. Nothing from the past was left untouched. Chinese society as whole went through a demolishing and rebuilding according to communist primciples - I think we can agree that communism is rooted in Western philosophy. Therefore China was rebuilt along a Western political tradition. This did not happen in Pakistan where the old order has remained intact but with a thin spray paint of western elite on top.