Zoroastrians

[epebble]

When the Arab commander (Saad ibn-e Abi Vaghas) faced the huge library of Cteciphon, he wrote to Omar: what should be done about the books. Omar wrote back “If the books contradict the Koran, they are blasphemous and on the other hand if they are in agreement with the text of Koran, then they are not needed, as for us only Koran is sufficient”. Thus, the huge library was destroyed and the books or the product of the generations of Persian scientists and scholars were burned in fire or thrown into the Euphrates

This was also the reasoning behind the burning of the Great library of Alexandria in Egypt in 642 A.D. Till then Alexandria and Egypt were the repositories of the great wisdom of Greeks and Romans.

In 642 AD, Alexandria was captured by the Muslim army of Amr ibn al-As. Several later Arabic sources describe the library's destruction by the order of Caliph Omar. Bar-Hebraeus, writing in the thirteenth century, quotes Omar as saying to Yaḥyā al-Naḥwī: "If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them; and if these are opposed to the Quran, destroy them"

 

[Indos]

This was also the reasoning behind the burning of the Great library of Alexandria in Egypt in 642 A.D. Till then Alexandria and Egypt were the repositories of the great wisdom of Greeks and Romans.

In 642 AD, Alexandria was captured by the Muslim army of Amr ibn al-As. Several later Arabic sources describe the library's destruction by the order of Caliph Omar. Bar-Hebraeus, writing in the thirteenth century, quotes Omar as saying to Yaḥyā al-Naḥwī: "If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them; and if these are opposed to the Quran, destroy them"

Something that is oppose to reality. It is Muslim who are passionate in digging knowledge from Greece ancient philosophers works when others dont pay attention on them. Muslims that make Renaissance in Europe can happen, and many Muslim scholars are actually Persians

Even there is Hadith saying by prophet Muhammad which is in Indonesian it is famous with this statement : Belajarlah hingga ke negeri China (Learn, and if you could, you should go to China to gather knowledge)

 

[aryobarzan]

This was also the reasoning behind the burning of the Great library of Alexandria in Egypt in 642 A.D. Till then Alexandria and Egypt were the repositories of the great wisdom of Greeks and Romans.

In 642 AD, Alexandria was captured by the Muslim army of Amr ibn al-As. Several later Arabic sources describe the library's destruction by the order of Caliph Omar. Bar-Hebraeus, writing in the thirteenth century, quotes Omar as saying to Yaḥyā al-Naḥwī: "If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them; and if these are opposed to the Quran, destroy them"

Khaliji Arabs (Arabs of Arabian Peninsula) that did these acts of savagery in the name of Islam have not changed much as we saw them in ISIL savagery and/or chopping opposition in their consulate..Same people same acts.... this time around awash with petro dollars..destroying the name of Islam..

 

[Hack-Hook]

yes same influenced people in whose company the word Salah is used, they vehemently talk about being Arabified.

Care to share your views on end of times in Zarostarian religion and concept of pure race?

thanks in advance

end of time is like Muslims , and the rest of Abrahamic religions , the savior named Soshyant come there will be a big battle all evil, diseases and death will be defeated, then all the dead raise from the spot they died and will be leaded to place of judgement to be they see their good deed and bad deeds and the wicked go to hell and goods go to heaven.

it seems they have two judgement an individual judgement and a judgement for all humanity as all , there is something about purification of earth and people with molten methal and every thing return to its perfect state of being and immortality bestowed on people , azhidahak and Ahremen escape to hell and molten methal destroy hell and they will be destroyed
according to zoroastarian , its not the end of the world but its Renovation (Frashokereti )

The eschatological ideas are only alluded to in the surviving texts of the Avesta, and are known of in detail only from the texts of Zoroastrian tradition, in particular in the ca. 9th-century Bundahishn. The accompanying story, as it appears in the Bundahishn (GBd 30.1ff), runs as follows:[1] At the end of the "third time" (the first being the age of creation, the second of mixture, and the third of separation), there will be a great battle between the forces of good (the yazatas) and those of evil (the daevas) in which the good will triumph. On earth, the Saoshyant will bring about a resurrection of the dead in the bodies they had before they died. This is followed by a last judgment through ordeal. The yazatas Airyaman and Atar will melt the metal in the hills and mountains, and the molten metal will then flow across the earth like a river. All mankind—both the living and the resurrected dead—will be required to wade through that river, but for the righteous (ashavan) it will seem to be a river of warm milk, while the wicked will be burned. The river will then flow down to hell, where it will annihilate Angra Mainyu and the last vestiges of wickedness in the universe. In later Zoroastrian texts, it is written that the molten metal will purify the wicked.[3]

The narrative continues with a projection of Ahura Mazda and the six Amesha Spentas solemnizing a final act of worship (yasna), and the preparation of parahaoma from "white haoma". The righteous will partake of the parahaoma, which will confer immortality upon them. Thereafter, humankind will become like the Amesha Spentas, living without food, without hunger or thirst, and without weapons (or possibility of bodily injury). The material substance of the bodies will be so light as to cast no shadow. All humanity will speak a single language and belong to a single nation without borders. All will share a single purpose and goal, joining with the divine for a perpetual exaltation of God's glory.[4]

Although frashokereti is a restoration of the time of creation, there is no return to the uniqueness of the primordial plant, animal and human; while in the beginning there was one plant, one animal and one human, the variety that had since issued would remain forever.[1] Similarly, the host of divinities brought into existence by Mazda continue to have distinct existences, "and there is no prophecy of their re-absorption into the Godhead."

 

[Mustang125]

my understanding on global religions overwhelmingly stems from the findings of the , well just call them Quranists/Scriptualists, that every clergy had their saint Paul moment. Masses adopting opinions of men over Revelation.



Moreover they are almost unimanious in their academic findings about Ali being one of the servants of The Almighty spearheading the charge against powers to be responsible for the institutional sabotage, spreading over millinnea, targeting natural way of life/fitrah concering homosapiens.

Sir would love to know your opinion on the gentlemen’s comments on Karbala is a “story” and the aima of ahle bayt (AS) are not buried there but are actually graves of previous non-muslims. That being said the gentleman does think Zoroaster might have been a prophet lol.

 

[Indos]

end of time is like Muslims , and the rest of Abrahamic religions , the savior named Soshyant come there will be a big battle all evil, diseases and death will be defeated, then all the dead raise from the spot they died and will be leaded to place of judgement to be they see their good deed and bad deeds and the wicked go to hell and goods go to heaven.

What Saoshyant meaning in Persian ?

 

[hussain0216]

Historical accounts do not support your statement:
The Savagery of the invading Khaliji Arabs as we recently witnessed by the treatment of Yazidi kurdish women and men in the hands of ISIL is a good example . same style of savagery 600 years later....Nationalist Iranians (not just Zorastrians) will not forget their history even if Mullahs of Iran try to hide this history from the Iranian public.

The Arabs invaded Persia not only for its reputed wealth, but to bring into the faith new converts and to impose Islam as the new state religion. They were religious zealots who believed that “in a religious war if one kills or is killed, one’s place in heaven is secure”. To impose the new religion, the old culture and creed had to be destroyed. Therefore first they targeted the libraries, universities and schools. Only few examples reflect the enormity of the calamity that befell upon Persia at 630 A.D. Although some events and figures appear legendary, nevertheless are considered to be true, as they have been recorded by many historians of the Islamic era.

When the Arab commander (Saad ibn-e Abi Vaghas) faced the huge library of Cteciphon, he wrote to Omar: what should be done about the books. Omar wrote back “If the books contradict the Koran, they are blasphemous and on the other hand if they are in agreement with the text of Koran, then they are not needed, as for us only Koran is sufficient”. Thus, the huge library was destroyed and the books or the product of the generations of Persian scientists and scholars were burned in fire or thrown into the Euphrates.[1] By the order of another Arab ruler (Ghotaibeh ibn-e Moslem) in Khwarezmia, those who were literate with all the historians, writers and Mobeds were massacred and their books burned so that after one generation the people were illiterate.[2] Other libraries in Ray and Khorassan received the same treatment and the famous international University of Gondishapour declined and eventually abandoned, and its library and books vanished. Ibn-e Khaldoun, the famous Islamic historian summarizes the whole anihilation and conflagration:” where is the Persian science that Omar ordered to be destroyed?” Only few books survived, because the Persian scholars translated them into Arabic.

To conquer Persia and force Islam, the Arab invaders resorted to many inhumane actions including massacre, mass enslavement of men, women and children, and imposition of heavy taxes (Jezyeh=Jizya) on those who did not convert. By the order of “Yazid ibn-e Mohalleb” in Gorgan so many Persians were beheaded that their blood mixed with water would energize the millstone to produce as much as one day meal for him, as he had vowed.[3] The event of blood mill has been quoted by the generations of Iranian Zoroastrian families to this day, yet our books of history have been silent about it. In recent years however, disenchanted Iranian scholars have been writing about the blood mills and in fact this event has been reported by our historians of the Islamic era. On the way to Mazandaran the same commander ordered 12,000 captives to be hanged at the two sides of the road so that the victorious Arab army pass through. Upon arrival, many more were massacred in that province and heavy tax (Jizya) was imposed on the survivors who did not convert. Some historians have estimated that a total of 400,000 civilians were massacred.[4] Even though the figure appears inflated, nevertheless it reflects the extent of atrocities committed by the Arab conquerors. After the battle of Alis, the Arab commander (Khalid ibn-e Valid) ordered all the prisoners of war be decapitated so that a creek of blood flows. When the city of Estakhr in the south put up stiff resistance against the Arab invaders, 40,000 residents were slaughtered or hanged.[5] One of the battles by the Arabs has been named, Jelovla (covered), because an estimated 100,000 bodies of the slain Iranian soldiers covered the desert.[6] It is reported that 130,000 Iranian women and children were enslaved and sold in the Mecca and Medina markets and large amount of gold and silver plundered. One respected Iranian scholar recently wrote, “Why so many had to die or suffer? Because one side was determined to impose his religion upon the other who could not understand ”.[7] The Arabs colonized, exploited and despised the population. In this context they called the Persians “Ajam” or mute. They even named the Iranian converts “Mavali” or “liberated slaves”. According to the Arab classification, this caste could not receive wages or booties of the war; they were to be protected and at times rewarded by their protectors. Mavalis were not allowed to ride horses and sometimes they were given away as gifts. One of the Umayyad Caliphs was quoted “milk the Persians and once their milk dries, suck their blood”.[8] With so much atrocities committed in the name of religion, how much truly the Arab invaders knew about Islam? By the order of Omar 1000 warriors who knew one Ayah of the Koran were to be selected to receive the booties of the war. But the problem was that among the Arab army there were not even 1,000 soldiers who could read one Ayah.[9]

IRANIAN HISTORY: POST-SASANIAN

The History of Zoroastrians after Arab Invasion; Alien in Their Homeland



By: Dr. Daryoush Jahanian

Presented at the North American Zoroastrian Congress in San Francisco 1996

and the World Zoroastrian congress in Houston 2000-2001​

Next tell us what the KKK say about Mexicans invading the USA

 

[El Sidd]

you can use pooja if you want, nothing wrong with it, the meaning is the same

How is the meaning same? Namaz or Pooja is not literal translation of Salah.

Historical accounts do not support your statement:
The Savagery of the invading Khaliji Arabs as we recently witnessed by the treatment of Yazidi kurdish women and men in the hands of ISIL is a good example . same style of savagery 600 years later....Nationalist Iranians (not just Zorastrians) will not forget their history even if Mullahs of Iran try to hide this history from the Iranian public.

The Arabs invaded Persia not only for its reputed wealth, but to bring into the faith new converts and to impose Islam as the new state religion. They were religious zealots who believed that “in a religious war if one kills or is killed, one’s place in heaven is secure”. To impose the new religion, the old culture and creed had to be destroyed. Therefore first they targeted the libraries, universities and schools. Only few examples reflect the enormity of the calamity that befell upon Persia at 630 A.D. Although some events and figures appear legendary, nevertheless are considered to be true, as they have been recorded by many historians of the Islamic era.

When the Arab commander (Saad ibn-e Abi Vaghas) faced the huge library of Cteciphon, he wrote to Omar: what should be done about the books. Omar wrote back “If the books contradict the Koran, they are blasphemous and on the other hand if they are in agreement with the text of Koran, then they are not needed, as for us only Koran is sufficient”. Thus, the huge library was destroyed and the books or the product of the generations of Persian scientists and scholars were burned in fire or thrown into the Euphrates.[1] By the order of another Arab ruler (Ghotaibeh ibn-e Moslem) in Khwarezmia, those who were literate with all the historians, writers and Mobeds were massacred and their books burned so that after one generation the people were illiterate.[2] Other libraries in Ray and Khorassan received the same treatment and the famous international University of Gondishapour declined and eventually abandoned, and its library and books vanished. Ibn-e Khaldoun, the famous Islamic historian summarizes the whole anihilation and conflagration:” where is the Persian science that Omar ordered to be destroyed?” Only few books survived, because the Persian scholars translated them into Arabic.

To conquer Persia and force Islam, the Arab invaders resorted to many inhumane actions including massacre, mass enslavement of men, women and children, and imposition of heavy taxes (Jezyeh=Jizya) on those who did not convert. By the order of “Yazid ibn-e Mohalleb” in Gorgan so many Persians were beheaded that their blood mixed with water would energize the millstone to produce as much as one day meal for him, as he had vowed.[3] The event of blood mill has been quoted by the generations of Iranian Zoroastrian families to this day, yet our books of history have been silent about it. In recent years however, disenchanted Iranian scholars have been writing about the blood mills and in fact this event has been reported by our historians of the Islamic era. On the way to Mazandaran the same commander ordered 12,000 captives to be hanged at the two sides of the road so that the victorious Arab army pass through. Upon arrival, many more were massacred in that province and heavy tax (Jizya) was imposed on the survivors who did not convert. Some historians have estimated that a total of 400,000 civilians were massacred.[4] Even though the figure appears inflated, nevertheless it reflects the extent of atrocities committed by the Arab conquerors. After the battle of Alis, the Arab commander (Khalid ibn-e Valid) ordered all the prisoners of war be decapitated so that a creek of blood flows. When the city of Estakhr in the south put up stiff resistance against the Arab invaders, 40,000 residents were slaughtered or hanged.[5] One of the battles by the Arabs has been named, Jelovla (covered), because an estimated 100,000 bodies of the slain Iranian soldiers covered the desert.[6] It is reported that 130,000 Iranian women and children were enslaved and sold in the Mecca and Medina markets and large amount of gold and silver plundered. One respected Iranian scholar recently wrote, “Why so many had to die or suffer? Because one side was determined to impose his religion upon the other who could not understand ”.[7] The Arabs colonized, exploited and despised the population. In this context they called the Persians “Ajam” or mute. They even named the Iranian converts “Mavali” or “liberated slaves”. According to the Arab classification, this caste could not receive wages or booties of the war; they were to be protected and at times rewarded by their protectors. Mavalis were not allowed to ride horses and sometimes they were given away as gifts. One of the Umayyad Caliphs was quoted “milk the Persians and once their milk dries, suck their blood”.[8] With so much atrocities committed in the name of religion, how much truly the Arab invaders knew about Islam? By the order of Omar 1000 warriors who knew one Ayah of the Koran were to be selected to receive the booties of the war. But the problem was that among the Arab army there were not even 1,000 soldiers who could read one Ayah.[9]

IRANIAN HISTORY: POST-SASANIAN

The History of Zoroastrians after Arab Invasion; Alien in Their Homeland



By: Dr. Daryoush Jahanian

Presented at the North American Zoroastrian Congress in San Francisco 1996

and the World Zoroastrian congress in Houston 2000-2001​

Beautiful fabrications.

Must appreciate the art of fabrication of the Persians.

end of time is like Muslims , and the rest of Abrahamic religions , the savior named Soshyant come there will be a big battle all evil, diseases and death will be defeated, then all the dead raise from the spot they died and will be leaded to place of judgement to be they see their good deed and bad deeds and the wicked go to hell and goods go to heaven.

it seems they have two judgement an individual judgement and a judgement for all humanity as all , there is something about purification of earth and people with molten methal and every thing return to its perfect state of being and immortality bestowed on people , azhidahak and Ahremen escape to hell and molten methal destroy hell and they will be destroyed
according to zoroastarian , its not the end of the world but its Renovation (Frashokereti )

One can draw parallels between some sects of Judaism and beliefs of some of the sects derived from Islam, certainly but to say they are like Muslims or Abrahamic would be injustice.

 

[Hack-Hook]

What Saoshyant meaning in Persian ?

it's not used in modern Persians, in old Persians languages means one who benefit others or one who is knowledgeable

One can draw parallels between some sects of Judaism and beliefs of some of the sects derived from Islam, certainly but to say they are like Muslims or Abrahamic would be injustice.

about Zoroastrian there is a savior , there is judgement day , the judgement is based on what you said and what you did, there is hell , there is heaven . there is immortality , the bad guys are defeated , there is a big war , God is victorious , do you want me to continue , there is so much of similarity , to the extent that you must look for dissimilarities , with a magnifying glass

about Judaism also there is parallelism in maters that happen, if you remove parts the rabis added to the religion in last 3 millenia to cement their powers

 

[StormBreaker]

This was also the reasoning behind the burning of the Great library of Alexandria in Egypt in 642 A.D. Till then Alexandria and Egypt were the repositories of the great wisdom of Greeks and Romans.

In 642 AD, Alexandria was captured by the Muslim army of Amr ibn al-As. Several later Arabic sources describe the library's destruction by the order of Caliph Omar. Bar-Hebraeus, writing in the thirteenth century, quotes Omar as saying to Yaḥyā al-Naḥwī: "If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them; and if these are opposed to the Quran, destroy them"

Just a correction *

Ancient Greek inherited the great wisdom from Ancient Egypt.

it's not used in modern Persians, in old Persians languages means one who benefit others or one who is knowledgeable


about Zoroastrian there is a savior , there is judgement day , the judgement is based on what you said and what you did, there is hell , there is heaven . there is immortality , the bad guys are defeated , there is a big war , God is victorious , do you want me to continue , there is so much of similarity , to the extent that you must look for dissimilarities , with a magnifying glass

about Judaism also there is parallelism in maters that happen, if you remove parts the rabis added to the religion in last 3 millenia to cement their powers

There’s even ‘The Smoke’ which is the biggest surprise for me

 

[Mentee]

Sir would love to know your opinion on the gentlemen’s comments on Karbala is a “story” and the aima of ahle bayt (AS) are not buried there but are actually graves of previous non-muslims. That being said the gentleman does think Zoroaster might have been a prophet lol.

Dear , in the greater scheme of things it doesn't matter whether those graves belong to the Aiyama or not which I personally do believe that these are their A.s resting places .



The gentleman @I.R.A in question and many others are basically wary of a plethora of customs , practices , superstitions across the board and not just of shia iran etc which if we dig a lil deeper are a continuation of the same mythical religion originating in ancient Dravidia /modern day South Asia and then exported to Persia, Egypt, babylon, Anatolia and subsequently ending up as a state religion in Europa ofcourse with native twists and tastes. We can always indulge in throwing the Persians under the bus because of the close geographical proximity of a minority with that of the majority --------. If it had not been for the Arab imperialists defying the Abrahamic covenant for over stretching the boundaries of the promised land beyond Nile and Euphrates and the humiliation, racism and plunder with which the once proud Persians got subjected too may be assassins creed won't had been conceived in the first place.



Lets just admit the fact that it just took some odd decades for Muslims to live their own saint Paul moment ------ gossip over Revelation .

 

[Hack-Hook]

Just a correction *

Ancient Greek inherited the great wisdom from Ancient Egypt.


There’s even ‘The Smoke’ which is the biggest surprise for me

even at judgement day in both religion the earth will flatten , they are very similar just small difference in small details

 

[StormBreaker]

even at judgement day in both religion the earth will flatten , they are very similar just small difference in small details

That I didn’t checked yet. Thanks for the info

even at judgement day in both religion the earth will flatten , they are very similar just small difference in small details

Is there any beast in Zoroastrianism?

 

[El Sidd]

about Zoroastrian there is a savior , there is judgement day , the judgement is based on what you said and what you did, there is hell , there is heaven . there is immortality , the bad guys are defeated , there is a big war , God is victorious , do you want me to continue , there is so much of similarity , to the extent that you must look for dissimilarities , with a magnifying glass

about Judaism also there is parallelism in maters that happen, if you remove parts the rabis added to the religion in last 3 millenia to cement their powers

This theme is more present in Egyptian mythos to the extent that concept of a bridge and weightage of deeds brilliantly defined.

 

[Hack-Hook]

That I didn’t checked yet. Thanks for the info


Is there any beast in Zoroastrianism?

from Encyclopedia Iranica

Welcome to Encyclopaedia Iranica

The Encyclopaedia Iranica is a comprehensive research tool dedicated to the study of Iranian civilization in the Middle East, the Caucasus, Central Asia, and the Indian subcontinent

www.iranicaonline.org

Zoroaster appears to have believed that this consummation would take place not long after his own lifetime, achieved in part by another who would like himself be a saošyant, i.e., a bringer of salvation; and this hope was developed by his followers into the expectation that one day a son named Astvaṱ.ərəta would be born miraculously of the prophet’s own seed by a virgin mother, and would become the World Savior, the Saošyant. The myth that his mother will conceive him after bathing in a lake where the prophet’s seed is preserved is alluded to in verses from Yašt 19 which clearly predate the Achaemenian period: “(10) . . . Ahura Mazdā created many and good creatures . . . (11) in order that they shall make the world perfect, . . . in order that the dead shall rise up, that the Living One, the Indestructible, shall come, the world be made perfect at his wish . . . (88) We worship mighty Xᵛarənah . . . (89) which will accompany the victorious Saošyant, and also his other comrades, so that he may make the world perfect . . . (92-3) When Astvaṱ.ərəta comes out from Lake Kąsaoya, messenger of Ahura Mazdā, son of Vīspa-taurvairī, brandishing the victorious weapon which . . . Kavi Vištāspa bore to avenge Aša (Truth) upon the enemy host, then he will there drive the Drug (Falsehood) out from the world of Aša. (94) He will gaze with eyes of wisdom, he will behold all creation, . . . he will gaze with eyes of sacrifice on the whole material world, and heedfully he will make the whole material world undying. (95) His comrades . . . advance, thinking well, speaking well, acting well, upholding the Good Religion; and they will utter no false word with their tongues. Before them will flee ill-fated Aēšma (Wrath) of the bloody club. Aša will conquer the evil Drug, hideous, dark. (96) Aka Manah (Ill Purpose, see Akōman) will be overcome, Vohu Manah (Good Purpose) overcomes him. Overcome will be the falsely spoken word, the truly spoken word overcomes it. . . . Haurvatāṱ (Ḵordād, Health) and Amərətāṱ (Amurdād, Long Life, Immortality) overcome both Hunger and Thirst. . . . Aŋra Mainyu (Ahriman) of evil works will flee, bereft of power” (see Avesta, ed. Geldner, II, pp. 244, 256-58; on these verses as part of Zoroastrian apocalyptic see G. Messina, “Il Saušyant- nella tradizione iranica e la sua attesa,” Orientalia I, 1932, pp. 149-76). The final contest here described is known as the Great Battle (Pahl. ardīg ī wuzurg, wuzurg kārezār, Zātspram 34.52; Ayādgār ī Jāmāspīg, ed. G. Messina, Rome, 1939, 16.35).

well , in the great battle at the end of time the things that will be defeated are Falsehood, Wrath, Ill Purpose, Hunger and Thirst and Ahriman (the closest thing they had to satan)

I think the closest thing they had to the beast is AzhiDahak or Zahak , in Iran mythology he once defeated by Fereydon and chained in some month Damavand , at the end of the time he will be freed and then he will be defeated for good and escape to hell and there his essence will be destroyed for good