Z-10 & Z-19 Combat Helicopter News & Discussion

[United]

 

[cirr]

Z-10s and Z-19s belonging to the 8th Army Aviation Brigade of the 38th Group Army：

 

[sweetgrape]

 

[hk299792458]

This is not a Z-19?

Henri K.

 

[sweetgrape]

This is not a Z-19?

Henri K.

Still the Z-19, I guess，with fire control radar.

 

[Ankit_Pujari]

Chinese attack helicopter's secret Russian roots

Chinese attack helicopter's secret Russian roots
Posted by Guy Norris 8:33 PM on Mar 06, 2013

Sergei Mikheyev, General Designer of the Kamov Design Bureau, member of the Russian Academy of Sciences and Hero of the Russian Federation dropped the proverbial bombshell at Heli-Expo here in Las Vegas this afternoon.

Saving the best to last in a briefing to update a series of Kamov programs, Mikheyev told an astonished crowd that China’s Z-10/WZ-10 attack helicopter was actually designed in great secrecy under contract for China by Kamov. Dubbed Project 941, the concept was initially designed in 1995 and developed by China into the WZ-10/Z-10.

The two-seat helicopter made its public debut at the 2012 Zhuhai airshow – and while the helicopter had been heard of before then – its appearance at the show came as a surprise. At the time observers noted an outward resemblance to the AgustaWestland A129 Mangusta, but no connection was ever made to Kamov until today.

More details will follow in Aviation Week & Space Technology.

Tags: ar99, Kamov, Z-10, WZ-10, China, Russia, Zhuhai, Heli-Expo

Now, my Chinese brothers, please don't argue saying they were merely design consultants. The secret nature of the collaboration precludes possibility of them being mere design consultants. That argument won't cut ice among the sensible.

Have to give credit where it is due, China made full use of the collapse of Communism in present-day Russia, to further its goals, unlike India, that refused a similar proposal the Soviets had made.

 

[theone-neo]

cant make heli,,,, nw am thinking chinese so called stealthy fighter planes r made in chinese or just got from other country?

 

[bdslph]

every one gets help
EVEN the USA and EU are getting
my point is this as long as it works and it is good then np abt buying China weapons even if it is looks like american weapons

 

[The A-5]

every one gets help
EVEN the USA and EU are getting
my point is this as long as it works and it is good then np abt buying China weapons even if it is looks like american weapons

If you are getting help from foreign, you should openly admit it. Whats the point in pretending otherwise?

The truth is always bitter, and it always tumbles out of the closet suddenly. WZ-10's engines were designed by Pratt & Whitney. The US Govt. has fined the company many millions of $ for violating embargo and China shamelessly claims that WZ-10's engines are indigenous. Chinese gov. denies the P&W support.

Are we to think US Govt. is fining companies for nothing?

 

[qwerrty]

If you are getting help from foreign, you should openly admit it. Whats the point in pretending otherwise?

The truth is always bitter, and it always tumbles out of the closet suddenly. WZ-10's engines were designed by Pratt & Whitney. The US Govt. has fined the company many millions of $ for violating embargo and China shamelessly claims that WZ-10's engines are indigenous. Chinese gov. denies the P&W support.

Are we to think US Govt. is fining companies for nothing?

cool story! pw only export a few engines. WZ-10, now, has reach at least 10 regiment numbers..

 

[shree835]

@Ankit_Pujari How can any Chini guy reply on this coz they know what CPC told them or information from some part of external world.

 

[Black Widow]

every one gets help
EVEN the USA and EU are getting
my point is this as long as it works and it is good then np abt buying China weapons even if it is looks like american weapons

Good keep defending China, you will get reward from Pakistan...

@Topic: We don't know how correct this gentelman was, But one thing we all know for sure, Communism run on propaganda and lie. Maoism is worst form of commmunism. One can not expect truth coming out of communist mouth.

 

[sweetgrape]

If say some Russian expertist part in the project, I think right, but most of work done by China, after collapse of USSR, many countries accept huge of Russian, they contribute much to many projects, but not means can get all or most of credits!!!

from these article, seems that Russian done the all work or most of the work, the article's mention is belittling China, there would be such kind of article on J-20 and J31 later, not surprise!!

I know Indian like this kind of article, it make them feel better before China big achievement, but india itself have to inport most of the weapon from others, even start its own project, have to import most of components for it, or just contribute money, this kinds of article cater to person like indian!!

Whatever, I hope all indian like this kind of article, it is not harm to China, we just do our job and make use of the source to enhance ourself, you can keep mocking!

BTW, Z-10 is not Russian style, it should said American designedit!

 

[Skull and Bones]

There goes the Chinese bubble of 100% indigenous into burst.

 

[kingofkings]

Military Contractors Are Fined Over Aid to China
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/business/global/arms-contractor-pleads-guilty-on-china-exports.html?_r=0
WASHINGTON — A Canadian subsidiary of the Connecticut-based military contractor the United Technologies Corporation pleaded guilty on Thursday to federal charges that it had illegally helped the Chinese government develop an attack helicopter now in service there.
Enlarge This Image

Jonathan Alcorn/Bloomberg News
Louis R. Chênevert of United Technologies. He apologized after a subsidiary pleaded guilty to illegally exporting technology.
As part of a settlement with the Justice and State Departments, the military contractor, the Canadian subsidiary and another American subsidiary agreed to pay more than $75 million to the departments for making false statements to federal authorities.

The helicopter, known as the Z-10, seats two people and is designed mainly to attack tanks, armored vehicles and other ground forces. It is being mass produced in China.

The Canadian subsidiary, the Pratt & Whitney Canada Corporation, violated the Arms Export Control Act by providing the Chinese with 10 engines to power Z-10 helicopters in 2001 and 2002, according to an announcement by the United States attorney’s office for the District of Connecticut. Technology for the engines, the authorities said, had originally been created for United States military helicopters.

According to the settlement, Pratt & Whitney Canada pleaded guilty to illegally exporting to China the American military software used to operate the engines.

Pratt & Whitney Canada “anticipated that its work on the Z-10 military attack helicopter in China would open the door to a far more lucrative civilian helicopter market in China” that may have been worth $2 billion to the company, according to the Justice Department. Ultimately, the Chinese government chose not to award the company contracts for civilian helicopters.

United Technologies and its American subsidiary, the Hamilton Sundstrand Corporation, waited until 2006 to tell the United States government about the sales, according to the authorities, and then lied about them.

The settlement said that the Justice Department would defer its prosecutions of United Technologies and Hamilton Sundstrand as long as the companies paid their fines and allowed an independent monitor to assess their compliance with export law.

“We accept responsibility for these past violations and we deeply regret they occurred,” said Louis R. Chênevert, the chairman and chief executive of United Technologies.

He said that since 2006 United Technologies had invested more than $30 million “to strengthen its export compliance infrastructure,” including “increased employee training and communications efforts.”

The announcement from the Justice and State Departments comes as the Obama administration has increased its pressure on China. The administration has outlined plans to expand its military presence in the Pacific to reassure allies that they will be protected from the Chinese, who have vastly expanded their military spending in recent years.

“Due in part to the efforts of these companies, China was able to develop its first modern military attack helicopter with restricted U.S. defense technology,” said Lisa Monaco, assistant attorney general for National Security. “As today’s case demonstrates, the Justice Department will spare no effort to hold accountable those who compromise U.S. national security for the sake of profits and then lie about it to the government.”

The Justice Department has increased prosecutions against domestic companies selling military technology to the Chinese. So far this year, it has prosecuted six significant cases.

The most recent arrest occurred in May, when authorities apprehended a Chinese citizen in connection with charges that he had illegally exported transducers to China that can be used in centrifuges to enrich uranium. In April, a California man was sentenced to 46 months in prison for exporting thermal-imaging cameras to China.

“This is not the first and in all likelihood won’t be the last as the U.S. intelligence community assesses that the government of China is one of the most aggressive and capable collectors of sensitive U.S. technologies,” said Bruce Foucart, special agent in charge of homeland security investigations for New England, at a news conference in Bridgeport, Conn.

According to e-mails obtained by the Justice Department, Pratt & Whitney knew that it may have been violating American laws.

“Please note the attached notice (in bold) regarding the imposition of US sanctions on the Chinese Government for military aircraft,” according to an e-mail obtained by the Justice Department. “We must be very careful that the helicopter programs we are doing with the Chinese are not presented or viewed as military programs. As a result of these sanctions, we need to be very careful with the Z10C program. If the first flight will be with a gun ship then we could have problems with the US government.”