Z-10 & Z-19 Combat Helicopter News & Discussion

[milvipes]

Apple & orange: the WZ-10 was deisgned to be the Chinese equivalent of PAH-2 Tiger, which also replaced such lighter types as Gazelle & BO-105. The AH-64 did not replace the OH-6, the OH-58 did. Of course, there's always the possiblity that WZ-10 might be turned in to a dedicated anti-tank plaform, despite its lighter armour, should PLA decide to adopt WZ-19 concurrently.

 

[aimarraul]

NO.11

 

[Akasa]

NO.11

Interesting. This one retains either the 25 mm autocannon developed for the Type 86 IFV or the 30 mm chain gun developed specifically for the WZ-10. It's interesting to see that they still prefer the large calibre chain guns, probably for their ability to punch through armor.

However, I believe that the WZ-10 can also be armed with the 14.5 mm Gatling gun:

I guess it depends on the mission of the helicopter. If they are going against tanks, they would be logical to use the 30 mm chain gun. If they are going against infantry and other vehicles, they would be logical to use the 14.5 mm Gatling gun.

 

[no_name]

Apparently the soviets favoured chain gun over gatling for their armoured helicopters. Because even though the gatling as a higher firing rate, it take a split second or so to spin up to full rate and there is approx half second delay from pressing the button to firing. While the single barrel chain gun can achieve near instant full rate (actually gatling is a subset of chain gun)

Their reasoning is that for heavy guns it is more improtant to get the first shot rather than getting many shots, particularly against other armoured helicopters. And also for ammunition conservation.

Also it is possible to have heavier caliber for single barrel as opposed to a mini gun setting, more importantly so for a heli like WZ-10 where both carrying weight and volume is limited.

 

[shujah]

i am in love with it...

 

[Akasa]

Apparently the soviets favoured chain gun over gatling for their armoured helicopters. Because even though the gatling as a higher firing rate, it take a split second or so to spin up to full rate and there is approx half second delay from pressing the button to firing. While the single barrel chain gun can achieve near instant full rate (actually gatling is a subset of chain gun)

Their reasoning is that for heavy guns it is more improtant to get the first shot rather than getting many shots, particularly against other armoured helicopters. And also for ammunition conservation.

Also it is possible to have heavier caliber for single barrel as opposed to a mini gun setting, more importantly so for a heli like WZ-10 where both carrying weight and volume is limited.

It's also possible that the heavy calibre weapons are preferred mainly for their punch. I remember that the Bushmaster was in the bid for the WZ-10 gun. WZ-10 is mainly an anti-tank and anti-helicopter aircraft, so a chain gun fits its mission well.

However, Gatling guns can be used against infantry since a delay between the command and gun does not really matter.

 

[no_name]

That's what I'm referring to, firing rate will not matter if it can't punch through thicker armour.

(And just how fast do you need to fire for an object the size of tanks, plus chopper moves relatively slow, personally I would like a A-10 type plane then space and loading would be not so much of an issue)
High rate of fire for aircrafts like A-10 is needed because they want to maximize distruction with a relatively short duration first pass.

For infantry they can be taken care of by side-mounted mini guns on normal chopper or ground mobile units. Rockets are also useful.

 

[Akasa]

That's what I'm referring to, firing rate will not matter if it can't punch through thicker armour.

(And just how fast do you need to fire for an object the size of tanks, plus chopper moves relatively slow, personally I would like a A-10 type plane then space and loading would be not so much of an issue)
High rate of fire for aircrafts like A-10 is needed because they want to maximize distruction with a relatively short duration first pass.

For infantry they can be taken care of by side-mounted mini guns on normal chopper or ground mobile units. Rockets are also useful.

The A-10 uses the GAU-8A, which is a fast-firing cannon and also is of large calibre. However, it is extremely heavy, thus limiting it to be carried by heavy aircraft like the A-10. I would not compare the A-10 to a helicopter, since the A-10 is suited for fast-moving heavily armored targets that can be dealt with at long ranges. Helicopters are for situations where the enemy is not equipped with heavy weapons and does not have a strong anti-air capability. I would not worry too much about the loading of the WZ-10, since the hardpoints can also be converted to gun pods if necessary.

Speaking of Gatling guns, they would be really useful against anti-helicopter missions, since their fast rate of fire compensates for the speed of the enemy. Enemy helicopters also do not bear as armor as tanks and armored vehicles, thus eliminating the need for large calibre cannons.

But again, there's the AC-130 if things get wild, but let's not go there. *shudder*

Infantry is suitable for rockets only if they are relatively clustered. Infantry that are spread out are dealt with machine guns for economical reasons.

I believe Huitong mentioned that China is developing a close attack aircraft dubbed the Q-6, but I highly doubt this is likely.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

What a fantastic piece of machinery , I thought it was Apache for a second

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

By the way what is this strange coating on the helicopter's glass windows ?? Anti reflective coatings? its giving off this weired reflection

 

[no_name]

If one side of the glass is significantly brighter than the other side, then the bright side would see mainly reflections, and the dark side will see through mainly.

In this case I think the chromatic pattern is cause by the varying curvature and thickness of the glass (the panels are not flat so the reflective index is changing)

 

[no_name]

Abracadabra...high def. !

 

[Akasa]

By the way what is this strange coating on the helicopter's glass windows ?? Anti reflective coatings? its giving off this weired reflection

The colors are due to thin film interference, where certain wavelengths of color cancel each other out due to the thickness of the layer and other wavelengths of color become brighter.

 

[aimarraul]

http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/htm_data/27/1104/331361.html

 

[no_name]

Looks like it's definitely in mass production.